Light Farm silver gelatin web tutorials

[AgX]

I would like to join in but in trying to order the chemicals in Germany all the time I get the answer : we are not allowed to sell to private persons. The internet, or the way I use it, doesn´t give any answers.
So does anyone have any experience with an internetshop in Germany?

That a chemicals dealer rejects a consumer as client cannot be based on chemicals related law. Most probably were those dealers set up as wholesalers and due to that might not offer consumer related rights. Without adapting to the consumer they could get into trouble.



German law concerning chemicals distinguishes not only between chemistries themselves and type of client but also between over-the-counter or mailorder sale. It's all quite complicated.

But to the relief of german lawmaking: photochemicals have got a privileged status. But then the question arises what are photochemicals...


The main problem in Germany is that local dealers in chemicals have vanished. And as indicated above over-the-counter sales are of legal relevance.

 

[Polder]

Hello to Denmark

I´ve got a few replies from Dutch firms, who can supply small quantities of the needed chemicals within the EU commonmarket. If Denise agrees I´ll publish the name of some firms in my next article on the Lightfarm. I am still waiting for the reactions of some firms in Germany.

I live in Germany but I am Dutch so it is easy for me to contact Dutch firms, but they all read English.

Henk

 

[dwross]

Henk,

I absolutely agree. In fact, I was going to ask if you'd be willing! Thank you.

d

 

[dwross]

AgX,

Thank you for the info on the German photochemistry situation and for the links.
d

 

[Polder]

Hello to you all,

Thanks a lot for the links, I am checking them all. The Belgian website (also in English), apart from supplying chemicals, has a lot to offer. Not each supplier is able or allowed to deliver Silvernitate and Potassiumchloride. That is not that cost effective. But succes is for sure, we´ll succeed in the end.

If anyone has more addresses, please. I´ll contact some people in France and Hungary, perhaps we can create a European list of suppliers.

Henk

 

[falotico]

I can't think of a reason why silver nitrate, AgNo3, is considered a dangerous chemical. It is listed as an oxidizer, but it is less caustic than household bleach which is also an oxidizer. For many decades it was standard medical practice to apply silver nitrate topically to newborn infants. It is probably one of the most studied substances in chemistry and human contact with it has been extensive for nearly two centuries. About the worst thing it does is stain your fingers if you're not careful. But a felt pen will do the same thing.

From an ancient chemistry class I do remember that silver compounds can form a percussion explosive similar to fulminate of mercury. But we live in the United States, if you want an explosive you can buy bullets or gunpowder.

The first instinct of government is to tax and forbid. Denying people reasonable access to chemicals might be an unconstitutional infringement on their liberty. PE is right when he suggests that there is an anti-chemical bias out there. It's like Galileo and the church, "Who is the Pope to say that Jupiter has no moons, when they are there in the sky for everyone to see?" He never got the Inquisition to look through his telescope, and scientists will never get bureaucrats to learn the first thing about chemistry.

However, on the bright side, with the declining economy many merchants are allowed to sell scarce chemicals as a way to help business. Did film manufacturers hinder the sale of silver nitrate in order to boost the sale of their own films and papers?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Silver Nitrate is both a strong acid and a strong oxidizer being a salt of Nitric Acid and related to the class of Nitrate oxidizers. Therefore, some people think that it is very dangerous. It is not, unless you insist on drinking solutions of it, or pouring it over your body. Well, in that latter case you will turn dark brown. And, you can cause skin blisters and blindness if you are careless.

Seeing all of the above frightens some. And it is an uneven fright across the US and Europe. Some say it is ok to sell and others say it is not. This goes on and on.

All I know is that I get notes from all over the world stating "yes I can get Silver Nitrate" or "no, I cannot get it at all".

PE

 

[wildbillbugman]

Sometimes I make my own silver nitrate. I dare say that H2SO4 is far more dangerous than the end product, as is the orange gass that is produced. Like many water soluble chemicals, silver nitrate is relatively harmless in its dry state. So is KCN. Just be careful with solutions. Silver miners used to get gray ireses and internal organs because of their in-the-field extraction practices. My eyes are still ther original color.
Bill

 

[wildbillbugman]

Sorry- I meant to write H2no3, not H2SO4

 

[AgX]

I can't think of a reason why silver nitrate, AgNo3, is considered a dangerous chemical.

The sale of Silver Nitrate is not limited at all by german law. But nevertheless strange things are going on as one mail-order dealer wont't sell KBr to private clients any longer...

 

[gandolfi]

I am trapped...

One one hand, I can get many types of chemistry, as I work at a school..

On the other hand, I am not allowed to use it if I havn't gor a safety sheet, written in Danish, put in a map! No matter what chemistry!

So in fact I am not allowed to teach developing in Caffenol, as I can't get a safety sheet on coffee!!! or C vitamine...
Crazy world!

Solution: I do it anyway...

 

[falotico]

Frankly, I don't think anything is more dangerous than gasoline, and people buy tons of that. Why Germany should restrict KBr escapes me except that bromides will put people to sleep. It might have an illicit recreational use. Possibly bromine can haloginate organic chemicals used in the manufacture of street drugs. They restricted the sale of iodine crystals in Calif. because people were using it in some recipes for meth. But silver nitrate is a very useful chemical. The danger to the public is slight.

 

[AgX]

I did not say Germany restricts KBr. It is one dealer. By reason unknown to me.

 

[Polder]

Hi,

After looking a bit deeper into the question of the availability of these photochemicals there seems to be no problem at all within the EU commonmarket. There are, also in Germany, suppliers willing to export.
At the moment I am making a list of european suppliers. Comparing prices is, as always, important. There seem to be huge differences between countries. Knowing more of the matter now, it only seems that german law is so strict, thanks Agx. Just the whims of a supplier.
Anyway it is very interesting to dig into this matter a bit.

Henk

 

[Photo Engineer]

Thanks Henk, this will be very useful.

PE

 

[dwross]

Frankly, I don't think anything is more dangerous than gasoline, and people buy tons of that. Why Germany should restrict KBr escapes me except that bromides will put people to sleep. It might have an illicit recreational use. Possibly bromine can haloginate organic chemicals used in the manufacture of street drugs. They restricted the sale of iodine crystals in Calif. because people were using it in some recipes for meth. But silver nitrate is a very useful chemical. The danger to the public is slight.

Here in Oregon, we're not allowed to pump our own gas (which I'm just fine with!) Pumping your own gas is crazy, nuts dangerous .

The goofy quirks of people's notions, and the regulations that end up codified around them can be a serious annoyance and nuisance, but they also help keep the globe from becoming completely homogenized. Keeps things interesting.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Denise;

Way back in the day..... one of the guys that worked for me said that a woman drove away with the hose still in her tank and pulled the pump off the support and started a rather toasty fire. So, I agree with you.

Each state has a bunch of messy laws just as they have in Europe I guess.

PE

 

[wildbillbugman]

Denise,
No one need wory about the world becoming "homogenized" as long as there be people such as you around. In fact, imagine a world of "wildbillbugman" duplicates. Scares the pulp ouda me!
Bill
PE - I did the gasoline hose thing once. I was in a gas station "convenience store" and had just finished smart-mouthing a COP for eating a donut and coffee in the store. I walked out (without a donut),gased up and drove off with the hose attached to my car. No fire. The hose came off of the pump, probably because a whole lot of crazy californians had done the same. The attendant came out and said that it hapens fairly often. The COP stayed in the store.

 

[wildbillbugman]

BTW, KBr was used as a tranquilizer for people befor some odd side reactions were discovered. Bromoseltzer used to have real Br in it. The KBr is still used for dogs and cats.

 

[Photo Engineer]

When I was a kid, the saying "that is an old bromide" was used to infer a story that put one to sleep.

Don't gas up in NYS. The pumps are not set up for such as you! They apparently don't release.

PE

 

[wildbillbugman]

PE- The hoses in NYS have to be permanently attaced to the pump, or people would be stealing them all the time. I do not know what people would do with them. But New Yorkers would think of some way to sell them. Probably right back to the station they were stolen from in the first place.
Bill

 

[dwross]

Quick update:

Henk Mantel (Polder) has finished his list of vendors for emulsion making materials in the EU. It is an excellent resource and should put to rest any fears that handcrafted silver gelatin is out of reach of Europeans. Thanks, Henk!

http://www.thelightfarm.com/Map/Index/HenkMantel2/ChemicalList.htm

Also, I've finished the first tutorial -- KCl Gaslight Paper. I hope there are some folks here who will finally dive in and make paper. In a month, we'll tackle dry plate. I have my fingers crossed that some of the younger members will give things a go. It would be very exciting to see fresh eyes making fresh art.

http://www.thelightfarm.com/Map/TLFTutorials/tlftutorials-handmade-silver-gelatin-emulsions.htm

d

 

[Polder]

Fresh eyes- Fresh start- fresh art

Quick update:

Henk Mantel (Polder) has finished his list of vendors for emulsion making materials in the EU. It is an excellent resource and should put to rest any fears that handcrafted silver gelatin is out of reach of Europeans. Thanks, Henk!

http://www.thelightfarm.com/Map/Index/HenkMantel2/ChemicalList.htm

Also, I've finished the first tutorial -- KCl Gaslight Paper. I hope there are some folks here who will finally dive in and make paper. In a month, we'll tackle dry plate. I have my fingers crossed that some of the younger members will give things a go. It would be very exciting to see fresh eyes making fresh art.

http://www.thelightfarm.com/Map/TLFTutorials/tlftutorials-handmade-silver-gelatin-emulsions.htm

d

Hi to you all,

Thank you Denise, for your kind words.
The list of vendors is still in need of expanding. So If anyone out here has more addresses, please. The list has been compiled in a short time because of the help of a couple of people here, thanks.
Funny thing is, that there is no info from France ( mes chers amis, aidez moi s.v.p,), there should be members in Hungary,( kedves Magyar, hol van a gyar, az üzlet, köszönöm) I tried to contact firms in more southern countries in Europe, no reactions. One reaction from Sweden: only readymade.

Concerning the eyes: mine are a bit worn, but in a couple of months time the first results may very well be fresh art made by fresh eyes. Art as always : for eyes to see that can.

Henk

 

[Polder]

Sorry, a mistake in my english,

I meant fresh art not made by me

Henk

 

[Photo Engineer]

Henk;

You may want to talk to Mirko directly at Fotoimpex. As I mentioned, he has added photo grade gelatin to his line of chemicals as well as a very fine Baryta paper. He has access to many other photographic chemicals and may either point you in a direction that is useful or may be able to get it for you directly.

PE