LF is drawing me in, and I'm fighting it!

[JBrunner]

Welcome, you should be a member of largeformatophotography.info.

I am new as well, three years in the flied, I personally consider it as new. I spent two years just reading posts, doing my own research. It was a good thing to do, you will save a tons of money. Make your decission very wisely, that would be my best advice.

It is quite expensive at the beginning, so be careful what you buy and for what purpose. I ended up spending just over 30 thousand dollars to get my dream gear. The thing is, Camera, lens and film is not only gear you need. Welcome in LF, but do not hurry!

Personally I did not waste too much money so far (around 500 USD or so), I have few things they are small and I needed them bigger. My mistake was I did not have enough knowledge to make my decission right.

As a counterpoint to 30G's here' is my 8x10 set up and what it cost:

Kodak 2D 8x10 camera, mint condition with extension rail, 4x5, 5x7, 8x10 backs with spitters for 4x10, 5x8, 2.5x7, and 3.5x5 and holders $600

210 G Claron in shutter from JGalli about $350

Turner Reich triple convertible 12", 19", 25" in Ilex shutter from fleabay $175

Zone six tripod- fleabay about $100

check out the contact prints in my gallery- that's what you can do with $1200 bucks worth of LF (okay throw in another couple Cnotes for darkcloth, loupe, contact frame, etc)

 

[SAShruby]

Hi Ole,

me neither. I just got too serious in my photography. I specialize myself in contact printing and direct to ciba photography. Because of my schneider super angulon f8/210 mm with 127 mm filter ring, 6x6 arriflex matte box is the solution. And so on.

I just say, I'm buying gear only once, so I make sure I do not want to replace it in my life time. OTOH my gear is getting more and more pricey, (i track prices on Ebay), so If I decide to sell my gear I can see it profitable in the future as well.

My gear starts with 8x10 and 8x20 Dorf. there is 5 grand, just to start. My 8x10 Durst color head enlarger is the second piece I have. I don't know, maybe I'm overreacting, but if you want to get serious and after reading like 30 books I did, everybody calls for paying attention to details. And gear is one part of it. I'd say pretty important. You can improve photography by experience over time, but you will stay limited to quality of your gear. I can shoot in extreme conditions anytime. Do color photography directly to cibachrome etc. whatever I can dream about.

I like that.

Comment. Just go to another thread like (there was a url link here which no longer exists) and you can find out that 5,500 USD for a marvelous lens is just a beginning of a new journey. There are bunch of people around with gear in 100,000 range, I'm just a small mice here.

 

[timbo10ca]

The point about planning is absolutely it. I think LF requires a slightly warped personality that gets excited by organising all the little things. I have started down the path to LF and am making very slow progress, however I feel that this is a long term thing that I will master over many, many years. I think LF weeds out the bolters and those without patience fairly quickly. Good luck.

John.

Slightly warped personality?

Uh oh- I've always been an LFer, and just didn't realize it......

Well everybody- I appreciate all your helpful (and sometimes deliciously morbid ) responses. They made my grin get larger and larger as I read through them. I think I'll inevitably lose my better judgment and join you guys. I'm on a warpath to find someone locally who shoots LF- I haven't even seen an actual LF camera in real life, but I've seen what they're capable of- pure beauty.

I'm going to look into all your recommendations (except those that will lead to a $30000 price tag- bye bye wife ) and hopefully come up with a system by spring to start shooting (everything worth photographing will be under 4 feet of snow here soon). If there are other, or more specific recommendations, Jim asked about a budget- well, I could see myself happily spending $1500 to $2000 on a full set-up, if it's something that I won't outgrow for 5-10 years. I've never been one to chince out on things I see as long-term investments, but I have a HUGE tendancy to get out of hand going bigger and better than necessary so I want to keep myself under some control (to start- I broke the news of my new "affair" to my wife last night. Lets just say she was less than thrilled). Obviously, this would be the system I would build around over time. Ideally, an 8X10 with a 5X7 reducing back, 2-3 lenses, a tripod, and the rest of the odds and ends necessary to get me started. My darkroom is already set up for the printing I would do. If it would be a system I might use for a year or two to get my feet wet, I'd not spend over $500. I do alot of hiking and cycling, and always carry my gear on my back- so I agree, lightness is important. Thanks again you guys- You slay me

 

[John Kasaian]

Of course you told your bride that the only camera that could possibly do justice to her beauty is an 8x10, which will provide a big enough contact print that you'll be able to gaze at her youthful image long, long after your eyesite has deteriorated from old age. Of course the image will have to be platinum to withstand the passage of the decades and that'll require a lot of practice shots.

You did, didn't you?

 

[timbo10ca]

Of course you told your bride that the only camera that could possibly do justice to her beauty is an 8x10, which will provide a big enough contact print that you'll be able to gaze at her youthful image long, long after your eyesite has deteriorated from old age. Of course the image will have to be platinum to withstand the passage of the decades and that'll require a lot of practice shots.

You did, didn't you?

Ha ha ha ha . Nope, but I will now- do you mind if I quote you?

 

[Dave_B]

hooked on large format

$100,000!!!!! Thank you for that factoid. Up until now I have felt like an out of control jerk who had more money than sense. The idea that some folks have spent 30-100k makes me feel positively virtuous!! I had no idea that I was such a cheap SOB. I'm enjoying the feeling. Wait until my wife finds out good I've been. She had no idea that I'm not the worst clown on the planet when it comes to spending money on camera gear. YOU HAVE SAVED MY MARRAIGE!! Thank you.

 

[John Kasaian]

Ha ha ha ha . Nope, but I will now- do you mind if I quote you?

We'll consider this to be the first formal lesson in your LF photography education!

 

[timbo10ca]

I had a look at those Wehman 8x10's. I'm in love. They seem perfect for my purposes, but a bit pricey if I want to add at least one lens (probably a 240mm as recommended by Ole or a 300mm recommended by sattler) and the rest of the equipment to get started for less than $2000. Do they ever come up on the used market? I'm wanting to add a 5x7 back, and it sounds like it may be expensive to do- I buy a used one, then send it to them to custom fit. I guess I'm also a bit nervous about buying things piece by piece, as I won't be entirely sure if they're all going to fit together properly. Then I was looking at Shen Hao and Tachihara- they sound popular, but it doesn't look like a 5X7 back is available for them. An older Deardorf definitley seems like a good option as well, as there seem to always be accessories available on the used market, and a wide range of them as well. They seem kind of big and bulky though. I was browsing the listings here at APUG, and checking out prices for lenses and aperatures. The aperatures are often as much as the lenses, but sometimes they come as a unit. The aperatures new are often around $300. What is a realistic cost for a lens/aperature unit for the 240mm or 300mm length. I'd probably also want one in the 120 to 140 range and a 600, or a bit longer. I'd purchase in that order. I know you can spend over $5000 easy on these, but just how cheap can you get them, with an aperature?

I'm curious about Ole's preference for the 240mm over the 300mm- what difference does the 60mm make regarding the 1:1 working distance (other than you can get just under a foot closer) and the bellows draw (I imagine this is the more important of the two)?

 

[Jim Noel]

Only fight those battles which you stand a chance of winning. This one is not worth fighting - give up and join us!

 

[Ole]

I'm curious about Ole's preference for the 240mm over the 300mm- what difference does the 60mm make regarding the 1:1 working distance (other than you can get just under a foot closer) and the bellows draw (I imagine this is the more important of the two)?

That's very simple:
At 1:1, the distance from subject to film plane is 4x focal length.

So if I'm shooting a sobject flat on the ground, the 240mm puts the ground glass at 96cm; the 300mm puts it at 120cm. Both are quite comfortable elevations for me, but the 300mm doesn't give as much leeway for larger or smaller magnifications (both of which lead to greater subject-to-film plane distances) before I hit my limit at about 165cm. I'm 193cm tall, so most people wouldn't be comfortable at that elevation.

Also the 240mm gives 48cm between the lens and the subject at 1:1, which is enough to get some light in there. That's why I don't use an even shorter focal length...

See? It's simple, once you know how my mind works...

 

[Dan Fromm]

I see, Ole, just a simple matter of, um, weights and measures.

 

[timbo10ca]

Ole- makes sense to me. We're about the same height so that'll work

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Since nobody else made this joke, I may as well...
"Luuke, Come to the darkslide - embrace your destiny! We can stand together under the darkcloth! I am your filmholder, Luke. Look into your heart and see the truth!"

 

[SAShruby]

$100,000!!!!! Thank you for that factoid. Up until now I have felt like an out of control jerk who had more money than sense. The idea that some folks have spent 30-100k makes me feel positively virtuous!! I had no idea that I was such a cheap SOB. I'm enjoying the feeling. Wait until my wife finds out good I've been. She had no idea that I'm not the worst clown on the planet when it comes to spending money on camera gear. YOU HAVE SAVED MY MARRAIGE!! Thank you.

Yeah. You're welcome!. When you start builing your own studio, you'll see.

 

[Campbell]

You can get into LF with a good used camera (e.g. Tachihara $450), one good used lens (e.g. 150mm G Claron - $200), a few film used film holders ($30), and whatever you want to spend on a tripod, dark cloth, and light meter. It can actually be done for less if you buy something like a Graflex/Graphic camera instead of the Tachihara but the former have limited movements and don't, IMHO, give you the full LF experience. As you can see, it costs less to get into LF than the cost of a good digital SLR.

If you've read and understand everything in the three Ansel Adams books you mention then you don't need to read any more books and in fact you know more than probably half the people who participate here. Everything you need to know is in those three books including of course a good chapter on using a view camera that tells you as much as most of the entire LF books devoted to the subject (except Leslie Stroebel's "View Camera Technque").

 

[timbo10ca]

I'm looking very seriously at the Deardorff NFS Donald Miller has up for sale here. I know it would be in wonderful condition coming from him, and that many of you quite enjoy your own. If it doesn't fit in my backpack, I could always bunjee it on

 

[Tom Stanworth]

Give in to the LF force but dont sell up your other kit. You may well regret it. I love LF but boy would I miss my 35mm and MF. In fact I came to appreciate them all the more when I spent a while with only LF gear...

 

[Ole]

I've spent the last two days in the darkroom, printing 35mm, MF and LF. Each format has its strengths and weaknesses, and all are capable of outstanding results in the right situation. Oddly enough all but one of the pictures I printed was shot with superwide lenses, which I didn't use at all until a few years ago - starting with LF (90mm on 5x7" is nice) !

 

[Tony Egan]

Like others have said after 6 months on my LF journey the basic technical stuff is actually easier in my view. No auto this and that to trip you up accidentally and composing on the ground glass is magic. Once you develop a repeatable routine you don't mess up too often - usually only when getting overexcited at the moment of perfect light. I rarely make a "bad" composition on LF but do so more often on 35mm and MF.

Has anyone mentioned print spotting yet? Dust be thy enemy...must practice, must practice....

 

[Tom Stanworth]

Has anyone mentioned print spotting yet? Dust be thy enemy...must practice, must practice....

The best bit being when your spotting inks change colour as they dry with a rare few papers (Forte PWT being one.....)

I find LF can get a bit intense and a few forays with the smaller cameras and a ban on tripods brings me back with a smile again. I was astounded when I shot 5 wall mountable street shots in NY in half a day on 35mm. I just had a great time and my mobility and inquisitiveness came across on film. I forgot what a pleasure 35mm could be and what great results it is capable of in areas where absolute technical quality is fairly irrelevant.

 

[Stew Squires]

I had a look at those Wehman 8x10's. I'm in love. They seem perfect for my purposes, but a bit pricey if I want to add at least one lens (probably a 240mm as recommended by Ole or a 300mm recommended by sattler) and the rest of the equipment to get started for less than $2000. Do they ever come up on the used market? I'm wanting to add a 5x7 back, and it sounds like it may be expensive to do- I buy a used one, then send it to them to custom fit. I guess I'm also a bit nervous about buying things piece by piece, as I won't be entirely sure if they're all going to fit together properly.

The Wehman is a wonderful camera. Front movements are reminicent of both my Crown Graphics and my Toyo45AX, in that a single knob locks down both swing and shift, as well as rough focus. You quickly get hooked on the rear focus and the way he does swing there. Tilts are not axial, but that hasn't made much difference in anything I've done. With anything 300mm and shorter you can remove the front rail/cover completely from the camera.

Bruce's only lightweight (lots of holes drilled in sheet metal parts to lighten) for sale to public came up recently for sale by the owner who only owned it a short time. It sold fairly quickly. He found another camera that he had been looking for prior to buying it.

Bruce will build you anything for a reasonable cost, but time is a potential issue. He is getting into next run of cameras over the winter months and would need to fit it in. He did make me a wonderful reducing/Toyo board adaptor so that I can use my Toyo lenses on the Wehman.

I would give him a call and chat about what you might like to do by way of 5x7 adaptor and what he would recommend picking up that he could adapt.

Stew

 

[Scott Peters]

I own a Wehman and like it, but how can you go wrong with that Deardorff for the price? I'd snap it up. Enjoy the groundglass and don't look back. You will really enjoy contact printing.

 

[timbo10ca]

I spent the entire day in the darkroom yesterday printing some 6X6 negs. They seem so sharp to me on and 8x10 piece of paper. Hardly enlarged at all.... I know I know, wait 'til I see an 8x10 contact print After seeing those, and spending some time with the owner of my photo store on the weekend (who shoots LF and gave me a bit of a 'camera tour'), and getting a non- negative response from my wife regarding the 'start-up' cost, I've decided to take the plunge. I will definitley not give up my 35mm and MF gear though- I quite enjoy that type of photography too. But I was daydreaming today of setting up my 8x10, composing and then sketching out the scene while jotting down relative zone placements for when the light is just right......

Now what was that about print spotting???

 

[John Kasaian]

The 'dorff is a dandy camera, One of the very best IMHO.

 

[manjo]

Dont go to the darkslide ... it will take away your free time, money and friends.