Les: Drydown question

[esanford]

Neal, thanks for the clarification. I urge you to do the tests. It sounds cumbersome, but it's worth it. Having said that, I don't use a lot of different papers. So, in my case the couple of hours spent testing for dry down contributed to my having a precise, predictable working process. I urge you to try it.

 

[Flotsam]

I just stepped out of the darkroom where I'm working on a print that has me wishing that I had those tests already behind me. I think that I will take your advice and put in an evening doing the tests soon.

Do you feel that there is a visual difference in the drydown of a high-key print, say, a snow scene, as opposed to a low-key or "normal" print? Do you make any adjustments from your tested percentages based on the overall tonality of the print?

 

[fhovie]

Well - I tested one of my papers like in Les's book then used the Kenucky windage method on the rest - I copied his tables and pined them up in the darkroom - The 80/20 rule always seems to apply. My tests showed that with the mat fiber papers I use - 10% consistantly works -

 

[naaldvoerder]

Hi forum,

I,m new to this forum, but very eager to put my questions in.

I take it that the dry-down-factor is more or less constant factor in a particular kind (brand) of paper, and should by the same in every darkroom for that particulair kind of paper. If so, paper manufacturers could save us a lot of trouble by recording this factor in their datasheets. Am I thinking wrong?

Secondly, a question for Les; i am using an upgraded analyzer by RH designs, which doesn,t have a drydown feature. How would percentages relate to 1/12 or 1/6 of an F-stop?

Thanks

 

[Foto Ludens]

naaldvoeder,

I believe that dry-down varies with the method used to dry your prints, therefore a chart for dry-down would be merely a guide. I think that they could stipulate a 10% value as a starting place, making it easier for us to adapt to different papers.

But since they don't, here you go:

start at 10%.

or microwave your prints (like I do)

or tape the wet prints to a sheet of glass, therefore eliminating dry down altogether.

Or maybe (the most probable one) I don't have a friggin clue about this, and someone else should answer your question.

sorry, I tried

 

[naaldvoerder]

Thanx anyway aNDRE

 

[Les McLean]

naaldvoerder wrote:

I take it that the dry-down-factor is more or less constant factor in a particular kind (brand) of paper, and should by the same in every darkroom for that particulair kind of paper. If so, paper manufacturers could save us a lot of trouble by recording this factor in their datasheets. Am I thinking wrong?

Secondly, a question for Les; i am using an upgraded analyzer by RH designs, which doesn,t have a drydown feature. How would percentages relate to 1/12 or 1/6 of an F-stop?


In the twenty odd years that I have been dealing with drydown by regularly testing papers for the % drydown I have found that occasionally it does change. For example, I allow 11% for Ilford Warmtone, but a couple of years ago I tested it to 10% and the next time I tested it was back to 11%. It could have been a bad test by me but it is so simple to do that I doubt it. I put it down to a batch change. I once approached all the main manufacturers with a proposal to let me have a supply of a few different batches of all papers they made to carry out a drydown test to see if it was consistent in each batch. I intended to publish the results in the magazine that I was them writing for (the UK version of Darkroom User) as I thought that the information would be useful to the readers. None of the manufacturers would agree and I couldn't get a sensible reason as to why.
If I have to use a paper that I have not tested I generally use a factor of 10%.

The drydown % is the same regardless of the increment of an fstop being used.

 

[jovo]

question for les: i've read your book (well...i did buy it of course.)and attempted a number of techniques that i thought were excellent strategies. the question is...when compensating for drydown does one take 10% say from the time for each gesture, i.e. base exposure and each subsequent burn or dodge? it'd be simple, of course, if there were no manipulations, but since there almost always are, i find this confusing. (btw, i was the kid in math class who could never accept axioms because i was told that i must..."that's what axioms are for...to be accepted". i hated not understanding the process leading up to such a conclusion. i DID NOT do well in math!! ;-)

 

[Les McLean]

jovo wrote:question for les: i've read your book (well...i did buy it of course.)and attempted a number of techniques that i thought were excellent strategies. the question is...when compensating for drydown does one take 10% say from the time for each gesture, i.e. base exposure and each subsequent burn or dodge? it'd be simple, of course, if there were no manipulations, but since there almost always are, i find this confusing.



jovo, Yes you have to apply the drydown factor to each stage of making the print and yes it can get complicated when there are a number of different areas to burned in for different times. It was for this reason that when RH Designs produced the Stop Clock Pro Timer that I suggested to them that a drydown feature would be very useful and Richard, the owner, incorporated it in the timer. For those who have not used this timer, the program allows you to set it up with the burning in times in sequence and consequently, when the drydown factor is activated it is automatically applied to each burning in stage.

 

[esanford]

Neal, I am not that precise. I use one dry down factor regardless of tonality. Frankly I don't see that much of a visual difference from high to low key. I find that the dry down factor works consistently. I have a Zone VI cold light stabilizer with a dry down meter. I go through the process of making the best print that I can with the dry down meter at zero. Once, I've completed and recorded all adjustements (i.e. burning dodging etc.), I dial in 8% of dry down and make the final print(s). That's it. If I were you, I'd establish my basic dry down factor and start using it. Then, I would fine tune it to fit your application.

 

[esanford]

Neal, I am not that precise. I use one dry down factor regardless of tonality. Frankly I don't see that much of a visual difference from high to low key. I find that the dry down factor works consistently. I have a Zone VI cold light stabilizer with a dry down meter. I go through the process of making the best print that I can with the dry down meter at zero. Once, I've completed and recorded all adjustements (i.e. burning dodging etc.), I dial in 8% of dry down and make the final print(s). That's it. If I were you, I'd establish my basic dry down factor and start using it. Then, I would fine tune it to fit your application.

 

[Bruce Osgood]

Now, if you're compensating in each step of the print process to adjust for dry down, suppose you had an 8 second "dodge" of an area and a 10% dry down factor, you would INCREASE the dodging time by 10% wouldn't you? Not decrease it.

These are the problems in life that befuddle me.

 

[esanford]

you would decrease!