Leica rangefinder appreciation

georg16nik · May 27, 2023

Leica II is perfect with Elmar 3,5/50 or even Summar 2/50.
Most days I am happy with Leica I and Elmar 3,5/50 or 20mm with external VF.
Leica M2 is OK if 35mm is your main prime AND you don't mind the M bulkiness.

faberryman · May 27, 2023

Shooting with a Barnack isn't about the resulting photographs, it's about shooting with a Barnack. In other words, cosplay.

Ballinderry-Michael · May 27, 2023

faberryman said:
Shooting with a Barnack isn't about the resulting photographs, it's about shooting with a Barnack. In other words, cosplay.

Ach now, speak for yourself. The photographs result in good part from the comfortable handling of a Leica II (in my case). I'd better go and look up "cosplay".

Don_ih · May 27, 2023

faberryman said:
Shooting with a Barnack isn't about the resulting photographs, it's about shooting with a Barnack. In other words, cosplay.

Get real.

Mogens · May 28, 2023

I’ll cop to a certain amount of ‘cosplay’ in my decision to buy a iiic. Part of my interest is that various of my photographic heroes used Barnacks. I’m not pretending to be them, but I am interested in understanding how their tech influenced their work. Plus the cameras look super cool. But you can’t seriously tell me that Barnacks aren’t serious photographic instruments capable of making wonderful photos. They may not create images that match the clarity and resolution of the latest Sony mirrorless, but that’s only one way to assess the quality of a picture and in my opinion not the most important.

Xylo · May 28, 2023

I must admit that my grandpa's IC is ergonomically quite well designed, something rare for such an old camera.
And when I compare it to my Ukrainian FED, it's absolutely tiny!
And the brightness of that viewfinder is just incredible.

That's pretty much why there is such a following for Barnack Leicas.

But having to re-cut long leaders with an Ablon template (I 3D printed one) and fiddling with the take-up spool is such a pain...

Don_ih · May 28, 2023

Xylo said:
But having to re-cut long leaders with an Ablon template (I 3D printed one) and fiddling with the take-up spool is such a pain

Why on earth would anyone need a template? And it takes literally seconds to get the film on the spool and in the camera. And then you are absolutely certain it will advance - unlike that ridiculous tulip thing in the later M cameras....

GregY · May 28, 2023

" unlike that ridiculous tulip thing in the later M cameras...." Don, you mean that new-fangled contraption that's been working for 50+ years?

Don_ih · May 28, 2023

GregY said:
" unlike that ridiculous tulip thing in the later M cameras...." Don, you mean that new-fangled contraption that's been working for 50+ years?

Exactly. By comparison, the spool you had to hook the film into in a III or a M3 never fails. The tulip in my m4-2, however, simply will not work unless I kink the film to catch in it. If I follow the instructions, which I've done 100 times, it only works half the time. I end up having to open the back, pull the film out, bend the end of the film so it catches on one of the tulip "petals" and hope it works (it still doesn't always work).

David Reynolds · May 28, 2023

I always used a template to adjust the tongue so it would load properly in my 111f . Are you telling me that was not necessary. Even with the trimmed tongue and no back door I was always worried that the film was not spooling properly.
I never had a problem loading any of my M cameras as I could open the back door and check it was secure in the so called tulip petals.

bjorke · May 28, 2023

M tulip works fine? I cut the film straight. I do adjust the tulip to match the angle on the little drawing, every time. Works. Every time.

mshchem · May 28, 2023

Tulip works great. The Ablon works great.

GregY · May 29, 2023

1968 M4 Tulip works fine. with and without the Leicavit

Don_ih · May 29, 2023

My tulip may not work fine - maybe it's defective. That's my conclusion. I make sure the sprocket holes are on the sprocket. I've tried aligning everything exactly the way it shows in the diagram (and in other ways) - the first thing that happens when you advance the film is, the tulip spins and the film slips out of it. It almost never works, and I usually end up with about 7 inches of exposed film -- unless I fold the end of the tongue backward and push that past the tulip, where it catches on a petal and actually stays put.

As for a Leica III template, I can see how long the cut in the film needs to be by looking at it. I wasn't saying you don't need to cut the film.

georg16nik · May 29, 2023

You don't really need a template – two frames is more or less what you need to cutout.

Next skill level: bulk loading Leica FILCA cassette by hand from 400 feet film roll in complete darkness

Ballinderry-Michael · May 29, 2023

I simply pull 23 sprocket holes out of the cassette and cut the leader from that point.

brbo · May 29, 2023

Don Heisz said:
My tulip may not work fine - maybe it's defective. That's my conclusion. I make sure the sprocket holes are on the sprocket. I've tried aligning everything exactly the way it shows in the diagram (and in other ways) - the first thing that happens when you advance the film is, the tulip spins and the film slips out of it.

Maybe you have been doing it incorrectly the whole time?

You do NOT advance the film with bottom opened checking whether tulip caught the film tip or not! You lead the film through the tulip, close the flap, install the bottom plate, advance the film. You don't even have to make sure sprocket holes are aligned although it won't hurt. Everything will be aligned and properly engaged once you've closed the flap, fixed the bottom plate and advanced the film. At that point, film can't slip out of the tulip, it's physically impossible (unless you are missing the wheel on the bottom plate that engages the tulip).

GregY · May 29, 2023

Don Heisz said:
Exactly. By comparison, the spool you had to hook the film into in a III or a M3 never fails. The tulip in my m4-2, however, simply will not work unless I kink the film to catch in it. If I follow the instructions, which I've done 100 times, it only works half the time. I end up having to open the back, pull the film out, bend the end of the film so it catches on one of the tulip "petals" and hope it works (it still doesn't always work).

Don, I hope this is an obvious question, but why don't you get it fixed?

Bill Burk · May 29, 2023

@cliveh

Is the parallax correction of the Leica M2 largely a gimmick?

cliveh · May 29, 2023

Bill Burk said:
@cliveh

Is the parallax correction of the Leica M2 largely a gimmick?

I doubt it, but have never really noticed as don't take many pictures that close up.

mshchem · May 29, 2023

brbo said:
Maybe you have been doing it incorrectly the whole time?

You do NOT advance the film with bottom opened checking whether tulip caught the film tip or not! You lead the film through the tulip, close the flap, install the bottom plate, advance the film. You don't even have to make sure sprocket holes are aligned although it won't hurt. Everything will be aligned and properly engaged once you've closed the flap, fixed the bottom plate and advanced the film. At that point, film can't slip out of the tulip, it's physically impossible (unless you are missing the wheel on the bottom plate that engages the tulip).

Yep, when in doubt follow the instructions.

Don_ih · May 29, 2023

brbo said:
Maybe you have been doing it incorrectly the whole time?

mshchem said:
Yep, when in doubt follow the instructions.

I've followed the instructions. I even tried the cold-weather instructions.

GregY said:
Don, I hope this is an obvious question, but why don't you get it fixed?

(1) It's not an insurmountable problem and (2) It's not really my preferred camera to use.

I shoot mostly bulk film, so I thought that was the culprit - that maybe I wasn't cutting the film wide enough or not cutting enough off. But it consistently does it with retail Tmax. Every roll I've tried.

Anyway, a couple of hours ago I searched for the same problem and came across a bunch of people saying they do exactly what I do - fold over the first 1/2" of film and let the tulip catch on that. I just now advanced the camera 50 times while looking inside and the tulip consistently only moves when the sprocket moves - so I have no idea why the film would slip out. You would think, for the film to slip out, the tulip would need to rotate before the film is fed in by the sprocket. Superficially, nothing looks wrong with the camera.

Oddly enough, the first few times I put film in the camera, it worked.

It'd probably work fine if I put film in it now, just to ridicule me.

snusmumriken · May 29, 2023

Don Heisz said:
I've followed the instructions. I even tried the cold-weather instructions.

(1) It's not an insurmountable problem and (2) It's not really my preferred camera to use.

I shoot mostly bulk film, so I thought that was the culprit - that maybe I wasn't cutting the film wide enough or not cutting enough off. But it consistently does it with retail Tmax. Every roll I've tried.

Anyway, a couple of hours ago I searched for the same problem and came across a bunch of people saying they do exactly what I do - fold over the first 1/2" of film and let the tulip catch on that. I just now advanced the camera 50 times while looking inside and the tulip consistently only moves when the sprocket moves - so I have no idea why the film would slip out. You would think, for the film to slip out, the tulip would need to rotate before the film is fed in by the sprocket. Superficially, nothing looks wrong with the camera.

Oddly enough, the first few times I put film in the camera, it worked.

It'd probably work fine if I put film in it now, just to ridicule me.

You are not alone, Don, I’ve had mis-loads at times too, when the leader has apparently been able to flip out of the tulip. I know that should be physically impossible, but there it is.

I do everything exactly by the book, except I may sometimes forget to check that the rewind locking lever on the front of the camera is back in its vertical position before I load the film.

I always check that the rewind knob turns as I crank the first few frames through. I’ll get it checked fairly soon when it’s in for a CLA.

Don_ih · May 29, 2023

georg16nik said:
bulk loading Leica FILCA cassette by hand from 400 feet film roll in complete darkness

Ok. I have exactly 1 FILCA and have never used it - but I decided to give what you're doing a try. I took the cassette apart - that was the first mistake. I now realize that the thing should be left together and you should push the film into the little slot in the core. I don't know how you'd find that little slot with the core in the cassette while in total darkness.
I spooled a couple of feet of film onto the core and then tried to put the cassette back together. It went in the inside part easily enough but getting the film through the outside part was very difficult. I had to cut the film on an angle to convince it to do it. I think I ruined about 3 inches of film in that effort.
But now it's in a Leica III and I'll see if the image frame no longer touches the sprocket holes (which it does with all regular cassettes).

Don_ih · May 29, 2023

snusmumriken said:
I may sometimes forget to check that the rewind locking lever on the front of the camera is back in its vertical position before I load the film

I always advance the rest of the way and fire the shutter before loading film, because the last roll was removed after a partial wind, normally.

Leica rangefinder appreciation

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