Leica made in Germany vs. in Canada - value

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Hassasin

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How do these stack up pure market value wise? I don't see any difference in prices between the two origins of assembly, but one thing is to see current prices, another how each will hold up value over time.
 

Don_ih

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The first M4-2 cameras were not exactly the greatest, apparently, so they tend to not be worth as much. That, far as I know, is the only real discrepancy. The problems with the early run were fixed.
 

Sirius Glass

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I would be happy with one from either or both countries.
 

chuckroast

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How do these stack up pure market value wise? I don't see any difference in prices between the two origins of assembly, but one thing is to see current prices, another how each will hold up value over time.


You can determine this by looking at the depleted auctions in eBay. My recent M body purchases have informed me that all "decent" M bodies (not collectibles, limited editions, black paint, etc.) run between about $1200 and $2500, give or take.

More to the point, there isn't necessarily a huge difference in price between a German M4, an M4-P, and an M4-2 these days. It's all about auction timing. This is germane, because these cameras have already lost their depreciation from new. I think condition is more important than anything anyway. Better a nice, clean, just CLAed M4-2, and and old beat Wezlar M4.

In any case, if you're careful, you should be able to more-or-less recoup your money unless you way overpay. That said, I wouldn't treat these like they're good investments. They might be, but collectables are a tough market.

Like I said, timing is everything. Just be prepared to drop another $500 or so if your camera needs an overhaul.

Then again, I chose an imperfect M2 that had just been CLAed by DAG over the sexier M4. It was considerably cheaper and I never found the older loading system hard to use. It will shoot pretty much every lens the M4 will with the framelines I actually care about.
 

MattKing

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You can determine this by looking at the depleted auctions in eBay.

Emphasis added - I really enjoy how descriptive that term is, although I expect that isn't what you intended.
Ain't auto-correct grand? 😉
 
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Hassasin

Hassasin

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OK, now to be more specific: any known issues (vs. MD-MDa) with MD-2, that's the black guy made of course in Canada?
 

awty

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I have a MD-2 in sexy black. Looking at the current prices it looks like it's doubled in value since I bought it a couple of years ago.
The only issue I have had has been user error from not securing the wrist strap properly and dropping it on the concrete. Winder got a little mangled, appart from that it works fine. Not much can go wrong if there is no range finder. I use uncoupled Voigtländer 15mm and 25mm lens.
 

Dan Fromm

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Hassasin, you want a forecast. Much about the future, including collectibles' prices, is unknowable. If you want to shoot film with a Leica M, buy on condition, enjoy your new (to you) use camera and be happy. If you want to make money, speculate in the stock market.

The one thing that seems to be certain about collectible cameras and cars is that as the people who wanted them when young die off demand goes away and prices fall.
 

chuckroast

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Hassasin, you want a forecast. Much about the future, including collectibles' prices, is unknowable. If you want to shoot film with a Leica M, buy on condition, enjoy your new (to you) use camera and be happy. If you want to make money, speculate in the stock market.

The one thing that seems to be certain about collectible cameras and cars is that as the people who wanted them when young die off demand goes away and prices fall.

Well said. Though I would never recommend anyone speculate on the stock market - they should become investors instead :wink:
 

chuckroast

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I have a MD-2 in sexy black. Looking at the current prices it looks like it's doubled in value since I bought it a couple of years ago.
The only issue I have had has been user error from not securing the wrist strap properly and dropping it on the concrete. Winder got a little mangled, appart from that it works fine. Not much can go wrong if there is no range finder. I use uncoupled Voigtländer 15mm and 25mm lens.

Based on my back-of-the-envelope analysis, there seems to be a strong correlation between lens prices and film body prices rising in proportion to Leica's increasingly expensive digital offerings. It's almost like their nosebleed digital pricing is inflating the entire ecosystem. Certainly, digital seems to have put upward pricing pressure on the price of used premium lenses like the ASPHs and APOs.

But, the sun doesn't set because the street lights turn on so whether that observed correlation is actually causal is debatable. Oh ... wait ... it's the internet. We can generate a polynomial curve fit with just two data points :wink:
 
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Hassasin

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Stock market these days is 99% speculation. It has nothing to do with state of economies or any industries as once known. Just keep moving money and never look back.
 

4season

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I’d think that any M3 or M4 actually marked “Midland, Canada” would command a collector’s premium due to rarity.

But while the model has sentimental value to me, I might be less keen to buy another M4-2, knowing that the finder / hot shoe assembly is a weak spot. Think that represents one of Leitz’s early uses of composite materials, and not all first attempts work as planned.
 

Don_ih

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I bought an M4-2. It was a good price at the time but I think an M3 would have been a bit cheaper. While there's nothing wrong with the camera, I should have bought an M3. I just don't like the M4-2, for some reason, whereas I really like the M3. You would not think there would be enough of a difference between them. I doubt I'll ever figure out what my problem with it is.
 

chuckroast

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I
I bought an M4-2. It was a good price at the time but I think an M3 would have been a bit cheaper. While there's nothing wrong with the camera, I should have bought an M3. I just don't like the M4-2, for some reason, whereas I really like the M3. You would not think there would be enough of a difference between them. I doubt I'll ever figure out what my problem with it is.

If memory serves, all M bodies after the M2 used plastics and lighter mechanical parts. This no doubt gave the M2 and M3 more heft.

I have both an M2 and an M5 and they seem similarly beefy to me, noting that the M5 is a larger camera.

Perhaps someone who knows the history here better could explain/correct.
 

Don_ih

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This no doubt gave the M2 and M3 more heft.

The M3 is about 75g more than the M4-2. Not that significant. And the M4-2 is a tiny bit taller than the M3. They're very similarly shaped otherwise.

Maybe I like the M3 more because of the chrome...
 

chuckroast

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The M3 is about 75g more than the M4-2. Not that significant. And the M4-2 is a tiny bit taller than the M3. They're very similarly shaped otherwise.

Maybe I like the M3 more because of the chrome...

By heft I probably meant "feel". The old Ms just feel more....deliberate in how the work. But that could be my imagination
 

Don_ih

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By heft I probably meant "feel". The old Ms just feel more....deliberate in how the work. But that could be my imagination

Given I can't give any real reason for my preference, I think it's imagination. The differences between them are pretty insignificant.
 

Arthurwg

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I recently sold a Mint condition 250mm Leica Telet (made in Canada) with Visoflex for M cameras for $276. Worked perfectly. Slightly more then I paid years ago but the first interested party in many months.
 

MattKing

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Boy would I like to respond to posts about the stock market!
But instead, in my role as a moderator, I would remind people that such discussions are so off topic as to demand moderator deletion.
 

chuckroast

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Boy would I like to respond to posts about the stock market!
But instead, in my role as a moderator, I would remind people that such discussions are so off topic as to demand moderator deletion.

I bet that means you don't want to hear about my sure-bet-can't-loose picks, doesn't it :tongue:
 
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