Leica IIIf opinions requested

Horatio · May 17, 2020

SO, Leicaphiles, where does the IIIf lie in the continuum of Leica RF goodness? Any nagging issues, concerns, things to avoid? Secondarily, what's a good semi-wide lens (30-40mm) to pair with one?

Paul Howell · May 17, 2020

Unless your on budget I would try for a IIIG, I had one, great camera, much better viewfinder, the last of the M38 breed. I had both a Leica 35 and Canon 35 of the 2 I found the Leica version to be a better performer, on the other hand I liked the Canon 28 better than the Leica 28.

Captain Slack · May 17, 2020

The IIIF’s viewfinder is for a 50mm lens. If you want to use any other focal length, you’ll need an external VF.

Horatio · May 17, 2020

Captain Slack said:
The IIIF’s viewfinder is for a 50mm lens. If you want to use any other focal length, you’ll need an external VF.

Thanks. I know next to nothing about Leicas. Perhaps another good reason for a IIIG?

BradS · May 17, 2020

Horatio said:
Thanks. I know next to nothing about Leicas. Perhaps another good reason for a IIIG?

No. The IIIG viewfinder also only has frame lines for the 50mm focal length. If you want to use a 35mm lens on any Leica Barnak, you'll need an aux viewfinder.

BradS · May 17, 2020

I have a Leica IIIF with collapsible 5cm f/3.5 Elmar . It was my gateway drug into the Leica cult. Other than the standard advice to get one that was taken care of and in good condition, I'd just recommend reading up on the Barnaks. They're a little different in use than anything you've probably used before. Two biggest issues for me (after the absurd prices for everything Leica, including repairs) are the need to trim the film leader and just the whole protocol for interacting with the camera - specifically, the two step focus through one peep sight and then frame your photo through the other peep sight...and the way you have to interact with the shutter speed selector knobs (yes, knobs, plural). You have to wind on before setting the shutter speed dial. One shutter speed selector has to be in a specific position to use the other, etc...lots of rules but...
once you get trained and comfortable with usage, it is small and relatively light weight, fun and very capable.

EDIT: The other important thing that I wish I had known is that the price difference between buying from a reputable dealer and some random eBay seller is not enough to justify the risk. A reputable and knowledgeable dealer will check for common issues and honestly describe any faults, and offer a warranty. The cost of having a Leica CLA'd by any of the several reputable technicians is around $300 so, if you buy a camera that needs service, the service will cost more than the camera is actually worth. I got lucky. I got a good one. Thje first Leica M that I acquired..not so much.

Ko.Fe. · May 17, 2020

Not a leicoped here, but using rangefinders for decades.
IIIf is nice camera if you could find one with earlier back lens holder made from metal. Its own plastic ones are failing apart and letting focus, framing lenses go. Those are not available anymore as replacement.
I opted for IIIc, after nazism time made.
40mm LTM lens is white elephant. For 35 look for one which isn't too big, if it is big lens it will block RF partially.
And keep in mind what decent 35mm VF is very expensive thing. To get around this, I use crapped out Olympus XA series VF.
Another good source for 35 VF are Minox 35.

BradS · May 17, 2020

Ko.Fe. said:
.....
IIIf is nice camera if you could find one with earlier back lens holder made from metal. Its own plastic ones are failing apart and letting focus, framing lenses go. Those are not available anymore as replacement.
...

The issue with plastic thingy on the iiif seems to be more hypothetical than practical reality. It's one of those legends that gets talked about and greatly amplified on the internet but, as a practical matter is really a non-issue.
besides, if you're really worried about it, you can buy a $6 metal replacement thingy and swap it out.

Ko.Fe. · May 17, 2020

BradS said:
The issue with plastic thingy on the iiif seems to be more hypothetical than practical reality. It's one of those legends that gets talked about and greatly amplified on the internet but, as a practical matter is really a non-issue.
besides, if you're really worried about it, you can buy a $6 metal replacement thingy and swap it out.

Lets not downplay the facts.
I have seen those IIIf without back lenses and missing plastic holders. For very cheap. Only after I purchased one, I find out about lenses not been available anymore.

Any link for those metal ones for 6 USD with reasonable shipping?

MartinCrabtree · May 17, 2020

This thread prompted me to look up how to use an early Leica. May as well go LF for the work required. 35 has always been about fast and easy for me.

darkosaric · May 17, 2020

I have IIIf (and If), great camera, by feel and operations - smooth as M3. But you are entering strange world when you get LTM Leica: mechanical perfection, precision, joy to use, but you need to have a lot of patience - loading film, cutting and preparing film to load, framing, focusing, changing lens...all is slow, any other camera is faster (M Leicas, SLR, fix lenses rangefinders). If you don't have patience - don't go there.

Kodachromeguy · May 17, 2020

Horatio said:
Thanks. I know next to nothing about Leicas. Perhaps another good reason for a IIIG?

Horatio, there must be several hundred web pages that discuss the world of Leica thread-mount cameras. And any edition of The Leica Manual will give you an excellent overview.

Bikerider · May 17, 2020

BradS said:
No. The IIIG viewfinder also only has frame lines for the 50mm focal length. If you want to use a 35mm lens on any Leica Barnak, you'll need an aux viewfinder.

The viewfinder for the 111G is the same (but larger and a bright line frame) You will still need an external viewfinder for other focal lengths. From the 1st of the 'M' series this is where Leitz started making cameras with a multi frame viewfinders.

BradS · May 17, 2020

Ko.Fe. said:
Lets not downplay the facts.
I have seen those IIIf without back lenses and missing plastic holders. For very cheap. Only after I purchased one, I find out about lenses not been available anymore.

...and for every one that is missing the little plastic thingy there are a few thousand still in use that are perfectly fine...even after 65+ years of use.
It's good to let people know that it is something to watch for but its not like every third one has had its eye fall out.
I'm sorry you got burned but let's not over state the issue.

StepheKoontz · May 17, 2020

If you are OK with a fixed 35mm lens, get an Olympus Wide-S. 7 element Zuiko 35mm f2 lens, 35mm bright line finder with integrated focus patch and parallax correction. Back opens normally, lever wind and compact size. A real joy to shoot with.

But honestly, using a barnack with a wide angle isn't a big deal. Most of the time I find myself scale focusing anyway. And focusing in one eye port and shifting to the other sounds harder than it is in practice. The film loading is a little bit of a pain until you've done it a few times.

Horatio · May 17, 2020

Kodachromeguy said:
Horatio, there must be several hundred web pages that discuss the world of Leica thread-mount cameras. And any edition of The Leica Manual will give you an excellent overview.

Thanks. I figured there might be, but I like you folks better. :-D

StepheKoontz said:
If you are OK with a fixed 35mm lens, get an Olympus Wide-S. 7 element Zuiko 35mm f2 lens, 35mm bright line finder with integrated focus patch and parallax correction. Back opens normally, lever wind and compact size. A real joy to shoot with.

But honestly, using a barnack with a wide angle isn't a big deal. Most of the time I find myself scale focusing anyway. And focusing in one eye port and shifting to the other sounds harder than it is in practice. The film loading is a little bit of a pain until you've done it a few times.

My first 35mm camera was a Minolta Himatic F. IIRC it had no manual override. It was fun, and I might get another, but I like that the Leica is all manual.

I’ve reviewed some YouTube videos on focusing the IIIf. Doesn’t bother me, and I think the external viewfinder is pretty cool. I always wondered why HCB’s self portrait looked so odd! Now I know.

Paul Howell · May 17, 2020

The III G has brigiht line for 50 and 90mm, parallax correction. Of the fixed lens Japanese range finders my fav is the Canon GIII 1.7, good shooter, auto and manual, while the meter is not TTL does a very good job, with a step up fring from 48 to 49mm filters are easy to come by, only down side is the ASA, ISO only metes to to 800.

Pioneer · May 17, 2020

They are all good and they are great fun to use. They do take patience and there is a learning curve but not bad for a camera that was designed in the 1920s.

As you progress thru the letters each camera gets a little more complex but it never gets really bad.

I personally prefer the Leica III or the Leica II because they are slightly smaller and slightly lighter.

The IIIG was the last of the batch and is actually almost as large as the Leica M3. It does have a slightly nicer viewfinder which incorporates parallax correction and includes framelines for 50mm and for 90mm. But even at that it still is not a lot different from the previous LTM Leicas and the viewfinder is still pretty small in comparison to the one found on the Leica M3 and later versions.

My biggest complaint about all of the Leica LTM Barnacks is that they are eyeglass scratchers. I had to replace a pair of my glasses within less than a year of purchasing them new. After the last time around I have used them very little preferring to use cameras with more eyeglass friendly viewfinders. However they are great cameras and, once you learn how to work with them, very capable cameras.

BAC1967 · May 17, 2020

The Summaron is a great 35mm lens. I also have a Jupiter-12 which is pretty good and much more affordable but I prefer the Summaron over it.

Leica IIIf with Summaron Lens by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

This was shot with the Summaron.

Abandoned Oregon Farm House by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

This was shot with the Jupiter-12

Trees on the Beach by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

Ko.Fe. · May 17, 2020

BradS said:
...and for every one that is missing the little plastic thingy there are a few thousand still in use that are perfectly fine...even after 65+ years of use.
It's good to let people know that it is something to watch for but its not like every third one has had its eye fall out.
I'm sorry you got burned but let's not over state the issue.

Exactly

And I can't find this metal lens holder for 6$ as well...

4season · May 17, 2020

IIIf is good, but so are IIIc, IIIa et al. Unless you plan to use flash, probably no particular reason to favor the IIIf. Ideally, buy one which has had the original cloth shutter curtains replaced,and make sure yours includes a film take-up spool too. Cameras with iffy shutter curtains should be deeply discounted, as replacement will cost you ~300 USD.

Compared to Zeiss Contax and other cameras from the era, these Leicas are ergonomic wonders. Don't overlook modern L39 lenses either! These old cameras can work very nicely with the likes of the 15mm Heliar.

You will want to re-trim film leaders a bit in order to load these cameras, but you don't need a special jig to do the job, I just use scissors.

StepheKoontz · May 17, 2020

Horatio said:
Thanks. I figured there might be, but I like you folks better. :-D
My first 35mm camera was a Minolta Himatic F. IIRC it had no manual override. It was fun, and I might get another, but I like that the Leica is all manual.

The Olympus I mentioned is a late 1950's model that is all manual/mechanical. No batteries, no meter etc.

Horatio · May 17, 2020

StepheKoontz said:
The Olympus I mentioned is a late 1950's model that is all manual/mechanical. No batteries, no meter etc.

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind.

Horatio · May 17, 2020

Paul Howell said:
Unless your on budget I would try for a IIIG, I had one, great camera, much better viewfinder, the last of the M38 breed. I had both a Leica 35 and Canon 35 of the 2 I found the Leica version to be a better performer, on the other hand I liked the Canon 28 better than the Leica 28.

This would definitely be on a budget!

Besk · May 17, 2020

It seems that Leica continually made improvements/changes in the models. For instance the IIIf red dial's shutter has some ball bearings if I remember correctly.
The IIIf black dial's bottom plate added a "tab" to keep the film better positioned. All of these changes between models were minor. In fact I have discovered that
a lot of folks like model II.

Leica IIIf opinions requested

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