large the camera the more thoughtful and creative the images ?

[Sirius Glass]

You have both misinterpreted my intention, and incorrectly attributed to me beliefs that can't be inferred from what I posted.

Accordingly, I shall pick up my ball and leave the park.

Well I enjoy your comments, even when I do not agree with them.

 

[pdeeh]

But please come back and play at APUG park!

No! Yah! Boo! Sucks! Won't shan't can't make me.

 

[Ian Grant]

FWIW, using a computer over a pen does change the results, studies have shown. People note-taking with a pen have been shown to be better at processing and remembering information than on a computer or pad. I will not say more creative -- but there is a difference.

I find that my ability to being spontaneous is not reduced when I am using a LF camera. The decision to bring the 35mm camera to my eye to take a photo happens no faster than my decision to set up a LF camera. What follows with LF is slower, but being speedy does not equal being spontaneous.

Back in the late 1990's while I was at University I used Voice recognition software to write my essays and dissertation, I found a freedom and it was more like using a pen and faster than typing (on a computer)- and typing is more indecisive.

I'm very fast working with LF, I've been out with photographers shooting smaller formats and digital and fin them slow Helps when I work hand held . . . . . but even with a tripod speed can be important even with LF.

Ian

 

[blansky]

There is also an interesting phenomena that when using a tripod, I, as well a most of my fellow portrait types, found that with the tripod you saw things and could fix them, that you would very often miss shooting hand held.

It was the fact of holding, balancing and looking through a viewfinder all at once, that very often made for, clothing issues with the subject that were missed, background issues that were missed, and imprecise cropping.

This was with medium format.

So it could be argued that a tripod holding the crop, holding the perspective and the subject, allows the photographer a far greater control of the shot. As well with portraits, the ability to see the subjects face the instant the shutter is released, (SLR), because you aren't looking through the viewfinder.

 

[eddie]

43 posts in less than 24 hrs. Great trolling John.:munch:

I don't see this as trolling. I think it raises questions I've wondered about, concerning my own working methods. Shooting everything from half-frame up to 8x10, I think my mind set changes with format, even when the subject matter is the same (assuming the format is appropriate to the image). With smaller formats, I often look thru the viewfinder many more times than I press the shutter. With larger formats, it's rarer that I look at the GG without exposing film. So, when working smaller, I let the viewfinder act as my senses, further separating myself from the environment. With larger, I think my senses are forced to work without the constraint (or advantage) of the viewfinder, and I often feel more attuned to my surroundings. I hope this makes sense...

As far as philosophical discussions go (this is in the ethics and philosophy forum), I wish we had more. I find threads about the act of creation much more useful than the mind numbing posts which argue whether someone should replace their 50mm 1.4 with a 50mm 1.2. I don't participate in posts I find inane, and suggest that those who find posts like this equally useless ignore them, and let those of us who may be interested have our little discussions.

 

[Jim Noel]

in another thread it was said
that the larger and more cumbersome the equipment
the slower the process and more creative, thoughtful the final results.

does it follow that folks that use smaller formats take less creative photographs?
or does creativity have to do with things other than $$ invested in the equipment, and "process" ?

I don't think such a broad statement can be made. However I know that when I went to 7x17 I slowed down considerably and gave each image far more thought than when I was using 4x5. Size of the equipment slowed me down, and cost of supplies limited the number of images in a given period. Does this make my images better? I hope so, but I am not the one to make that judgment.

 

[fotch]

Its not the camera that makes the image, its the mind. Does a bigger vehicle make a better driver? Sort of the same question, at least to me.

 

[markbarendt]

Back in the late 1990's while I was at University I used Voice recognition software to write my essays and dissertation, I found a freedom and it was more like using a pen and faster than typing (on a computer)- and typing is more indecisive.

I'm very fast working with LF, I've been out with photographers shooting smaller formats and digital and fin them slow Helps when I work hand held . . . . . but even with a tripod speed can be important even with LF.

Ian

I find the same thing with dictation software.

When I use any camera a lot I get pretty quick and reliable with it.

There is also an interesting phenomena that when using a tripod, I, as well a most of my fellow portrait types, found that with the tripod you saw things and could fix them, that you would very often miss shooting hand held.

It was the fact of holding, balancing and looking through a viewfinder all at once, that very often made for, clothing issues with the subject that were missed, background issues that were missed, and imprecise cropping.

This was with medium format.

So it could be argued that a tripod holding the crop, holding the perspective and the subject, allows the photographer a far greater control of the shot. As well with portraits, the ability to see the subjects face the instant the shutter is released, (SLR), because you aren't looking through the viewfinder.

Interesting thoughts.

I've found that even using a monopod does wonders.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Back in the late 1990's while I was at University I used Voice recognition software to write my essays and dissertation, I found a freedom and it was more like using a pen and faster than typing (on a computer)- and typing is more indecisive.

I'm very fast working with LF, I've been out with photographers shooting smaller formats and digital and fin them slow Helps when I work hand held . . . . . but even with a tripod speed can be important even with LF.

Ian

The used to be an office feature that would do that. It was called a secretary.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

man ray is known to have said " A certain amount of contempt for the material employed to express an idea is indispensable to the purest realization of this idea. "

Not to agree or disagree, I wish I understood why he thought that.

 

[michaelorr]

Not to agree or disagree, I wish I understood why he thought that.

perhaps it was meant to say that "respect" for the materials is not nearly so useful to creativity and result, as commanding the material, and perhaps perverting the material to suit the artist's needs or desires. Some contempt does make a more open path to experimenting, without feeling bad about maybe profaning or insulting the material. e.g. - "you can't do that to rice paper, its so delicate and lovely and what you are doing is just not appropriate!"

 

[Theo Sulphate]

perhaps it was meant to say that "respect" for the materials is not nearly so useful to creativity and result, as commanding the material, and perhaps perverting the material to suit the artist's needs or desires. Some contempt does make a more open path to experimenting, without feeling bad about maybe profaning or insulting the material. e.g. - "you can't do that to rice paper, its so delicate and lovely and what you are doing is just not appropriate!"

Ahhh... ok, I used to dislike the thought of manipulated negatives or Polaroids until I saw "Polaroid Manipulations" by Kathleen Thormod Carr. Her work impressed me and I've even done a bit of that myself.

 

[Vaughn]

...So it could be argued that a tripod holding the crop, holding the perspective and the subject, allows the photographer a far greater control of the shot...

I agree, realizing that there are many hand-held camera users who have gained with experience, a finely-tuned control of their images. Sometimes the light forces me to work very fast, other times I can take naps. When a herd of elk wandered into my shot during an exposure and the male started to make unfriendly sounds, I took down and packed away that 8x10 in seconds. But generally I prefer it slow.

 

[Ai Print]

Most of my thoughts on the matter have already been discussed.However，I would like to add that it all depends upon whst one calls “creative”. The most recent email notification from Hasselblad displayed their recent winners for crestive artistic photography. Thank God that the Hassy is capable of more imaginative pictures than these “winners”. Like a painter or sculpturer，a camera can sketch，draw，paint or carve. I use formats from 8x11（minox），35mm，120，to 4x5 and each gives satisfactory results for the creative task at hand. Picasso could do more with white window paint than many other psinters withba full palette.

Well then show us what you are capable of sir, because I got the same email and every single one of those shots is exponentially better then at least the first dozen or more pages of the gallery seen here.

 

[michaelorr]

Theo, there was a whole class at an art college in Philly some years back devoted to manipulating polaroids, a workmate's son was taking at the time the workmate was describing it to me. I never understood how it could command an entire semester as a single art form, and i find out today there is a whole book on the art form. Pretty cool.

 

[michaelorr]

……. It does have the benefit of being fun. 'Hope you're enjoying your journey also.

As HiHo points to, i am motivated by the pure joy of picking a camera up, whether failed or successful, or whether i have just stared at a ground glass and not even put a film holder in the back. "Honey, i am going out for a little while to take a photograph, see you in about 6 hours....." . I don't think i have been setting out to be creative, or to create art. When i got my first LF camera, a 4x5 monorail, my purpose or "artist's statement" was: I aim to produce a photograph that i like well enough and is done well enough to hang on my own wall, in my own home. I don't want to hang other people's photographs on my walls in my home. Since then, i have distracted in purpose to satisfying a coinciding desire to capture on film things i see around me i like, or things that have a valuable trait or characteristic, seldom captured, threatened with loss or plain forgotten, and has a story to tell. This too, has been fun. Creative? I think so, but not all wallpapering material or worthy of a portfolio.
As for the camera, or the creative energy that is put into the act by the artist, the outcome is not dictated by the tools or the materials or the circumstances, but rather by the artist. And I think that neither spontaneity nor contemplation dictate the outcome, but rather are appropriate conscious choices for the circumstances how the artist would approach the subject at hand.
Wow, what a lively conversation!

 

[removed account4]

Not to agree or disagree, I wish I understood why he thought that.

not sure why he said it, maybe because a lot of people are afraid to break convention and push the materials to their limits
my poor uneducated guess ( and i have read his biography ) is he was doing just that. there is an old saying ( not sure from what culture )
a friend made t-shirts with it on them --- it went like this: don't be afraid of work, make work afraid of you ( or something like that ).
maybe it is the same sort of thing, not to be intimidated by the materials and gear but to push them to their limits, and you to yours.
do things that make you uncomfortable and if your materials could speak they would be uncomfortable too ( maybe ).
there is a documentary film ( i think a NOVA special on pbs ) called "between the folds" and it is about origami masters. one person makes
his own paper and he mails it to other origami masters to use along with him. its about how these people somehow are able to make 3d sculptures
of all sorts by breaking the paper down and making it do what they want. i can still see one of these origami sculptures ( not sure what else to call them )
that a frenchman did of a man and i can't remember, he might have been walking a dog. the man had facial features and an exression on his face.
i see what these masters are doing similar to what man ray was suggesting. they took the square of paper and transformed it into something else.

 

[eddie]

Well then show us what you are capable of sir, because I got the same email and every single one of those shots is exponentially better then at least the first dozen or more pages of the gallery seen here.

Wow... There are some excellent photographers showing superb photographs, in the Gallery. It's been that way for the more than 10 years I've been a subscriber. Before challenging others to show what they're capable of, show us what you're capable of.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Well then show us what you are capable of sir, because I got the same email and every single one of those shots is exponentially better then at least the first dozen or more pages of the gallery seen here.

Is this a mine is bigger than yours challenge?

 

[Ai Print]

Wow... There are some excellent photographers showing superb photographs, in the Gallery. It's been that way for the more than 10 years I've been a subscriber. Before challenging others to show what they're capable of, show us what you're capable of.

Why sure, I'll PM you...

 

[removed account4]

its really not worth the effort for a thread based pissing contest.
im sure the hassy images were nice, but people have
different tastes. the gallery images aren't to everyone's taste
oh well, can't please everyone ...

 

[Dinesh]

......... Before challenging others to show what they're capable of, show us what you're capable of.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[removed account4]

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

ouch.

 

[eddie]

Why sure, I'll PM you...

I didn't realize you had changed your name. I remember your work, and liked a lot of the black and white stuff I had previously seen (I may have even commented, in the past). I don't think it stands out as far superior to many of the excellent photographs in the Gallery, as good as it may be, though.

 

[Ai Print]

I didn't realize you had changed your name. I remember your work, and liked a lot of the black and white stuff I had previously seen (I may have even commented, in the past). I don't think it stands out as far superior to many of the excellent photographs in the Gallery, as good as it may be, though.

Not all would agree and that is all well and fine, but the point I was making is like I told you in *private* that the photos that appeared in the email were exponentially better than the 14 pages of the standard gallery I looked through. I'm sure if I got a real photo editor, art director or art buyer on here to confirm this, they would.