Kodalith Ortho film question

henryyjjames · Nov 23, 2022

Hello,

So I found a bulk loader in my college darkroom with the label "Kodalith Ortho loaded 18/3/2015". Obviously, I want to shoot a roll and develop it, but since it's an old film, I am wondering what ISO I should shoot it at. I actually don't even know what the original ISO rating was. Is there a specific developer that is better for this film?
If anyone has any knowledge about this particular film and its development.

Thanks,
Henry

xkaes · Nov 23, 2022

I'm sure it's fine, but that probably doesn't matter. Unless you do hi-contrast stuff, you are better off selling it on EBAY and using the profit to buy some film you can use.

Donald Qualls · Nov 23, 2022

When new, Kodalith had an equivalent ISO of about 2 to 3, similar to the enlarging papers of the 1970s-1980s. The good news is, the slower the film, the less speed it loses over time.

When I was in high school (mid-1970s) we developed Kodalith in diluted Dektol to get results with some gray scale. The original use of this film, with the A-B litho developer (mixed before developing) was for very high contrast, and processed that way it's a stop or more faster, but even Dektol gave a pretty limited scale. If you want real gray tones, you'd probably be ahead to develop with a developer intended for document films, like H&W Control, POTA, or similar -- but then you 'll give up even more speed (might wind up at EI 1 or even lower). Testing would be advisable.

AnselMortensen · Nov 23, 2022

I used some of that back in my community college days in the early '80's...
IIRC, we used Dektol 1:3, rated film around 100 ASA (yes, it was ASA then) and bracketed...very high contrast, but with some gradation...not pure black/ pure clear.
My notebook from that class is somewhere in storage, and I can't remember development time/temp.
On the plus side, it is orthochromatic, so you can develop by inspection under a RED safelight.
If you want to pursue using it, I'd recommend finding some darkroom books & magazines from the '70's, it was a popular 'creative technique ' back in the day.
Did I mention 'bracket' ?

MattKing · Nov 23, 2022

Thread moved to the B&W: film sub-forum.
And on the thread's subject - the film is great for making title slides!

Don_ih · Nov 23, 2022

You can expose Kodalith Ortho 3 at iso25 and get decent results - but high contrast. You can try iso12. At any rate, you can pick a developer and develop under a safelight.

Paul Howell · Nov 23, 2022

Kodalith was used in the printing trade to make half tone plates. I know that some experimented very low contrast developers such as Kodatech (?) use with Tech Pan. Very fine grain, white skies, the tones always looked strange to me.

AnselMortensen · Nov 23, 2022

Hmmmm... I like that idea, I have some Kodalith in 4x5, and some Technidol.
Thanks for the inspiration!

MTGseattle · Dec 8, 2022

I've got a line on some Kodalith orthographic film type 3 #2556 with a 1998 exp date. It's 8x10. Supposedly it was stored refrigerated. I'm wondering if it's a worthwhile purchase for messing around given the price of 8x10 film? Can this stuff make decent negs for carbon printing?

Donald Qualls · Dec 9, 2022

If it's cheaper than Arista Ortho Lith 3.0 (if that's the correct version number) in the same size and quantity, it's likely a bargain if it's what you need. That stuff is slow enough fog isn't a big deal.

If you use an AB Lith developer, you'll get two values: solid black and clear -- which will be disappointing for alt process work (mostly, anyway). If you develop in something like diluted Dektol, you can get some gray tones, but probably not the kind you'd want for most scenes. IOW, it works really well for "posterized" prints, where you lay down layers of progressively darker material from progressively exposed and lith-developer internegatives, and can be made to work for gradated scenes, but is less ideal for that -- most people use films like Ilford Ortho 80 for that, which is a pictorial film you can use under safelight (don't know if that comes in 8x10, though).

relistan · Dec 12, 2022

I have 100 ft of this stuff unopened since the 1980s sitting in the freezer. Have not taken the leap to do anything with it. I do have some Adox CMS II 20 that I plan to shoot and develop in POTA. Maybe I should load up some of that Kodalith to develop in the same POTA (it only lasts a couple hours max).

henryyjjames · Dec 14, 2022

Don Heisz said:
You can expose Kodalith Ortho 3 at iso25 and get decent results - but high contrast. You can try iso12. At any rate, you can pick a developer and develop under a safelight.

I am going to try developing a roll shot at ios25. I have the following developers on hand. Is there one you suggest? D-76, ID-11, HC-110 and DD-X.

jtk · Dec 14, 2022

I played with a lot of that in the 60s.. dektol... serious bracketing... actually shot some nudes...rated it @ maybe 2 with Nikon Ftn (if it went that low).

jtk · Dec 14, 2022

A fun thing: set up for slide duplication but use Kodalith instead of chrome... allows you to expose as long as you'd like... give it a try...

Don_ih · Dec 15, 2022

henryyjjames said:
I am going to try developing a roll shot at ios25. I have the following developers on hand. Is there one you suggest? D-76, ID-11, HC-110 and DD-X.

Any developer should be fine. Test what dilution works best. Since it's a copy film, it will aggressively develop highlights at a stronger dilution.

BobUK · Dec 15, 2022

I dabbled with lith. film in the early 1990s.

I have just trawled through my old folders of leaflets etc. and found this Kodak instruction sheet. This one dates to 1992 when I had a few lith. photos printed in photo magazines.

Read the Modification..."IMPORTANT INFORMATION" in the first box. It refers to increased film speed.

I used the Kodak Super RT developer, it was expensive even then.

Hope the leaflet is of some use.

henryyjjames · Dec 16, 2022

BobUK said:
I dabbled with lith. film in the early 1990s.

I have just trawled through my old folders of leaflets etc. and found this Kodak instruction sheet. This one dates to 1992 when I had a few lith. photos printed in photo magazines.

Read the Modification..."IMPORTANT INFORMATION" in the first box. It refers to increased film speed.

I used the Kodak Super RT developer, it was expensive even then.

Hope the leaflet is of some use.

Thanks for the leaflet scans. Are there any more pages?

BobUK · Dec 16, 2022

Sorry henryyjjames the other pages of the leaflet are the German and French versions.

However I have found the leaflet for the developer I used.

If the date I wrote on it is correct, I was making lith. negatives a lot earlier than I thought.

It may be of use to someone in the future.

henryyjjames · Dec 16, 2022

That's ok, thanks for looking.
I do have quite a lot of Kodak Kodalith developer (A & B), but I'm not sure if it's "Super RT" developer.

TheGreatGasMaskMan · Oct 25, 2024

I know this is an old thread, but I just picked up two undated 20 EX. rolls of Kodalith type 3 from my camera store- I did find a massive dev chart dev. time of 13 minutes in d76 stock at ISO 32- would any of you say that's a good dev time? granted, I don't know when or what to try these films on.

Don_ih · Oct 25, 2024

TheGreatGasMaskMan said:
I did find a massive dev chart dev. time of 13 minutes in d76 stock at ISO 32

That will give you quite high contrast images with zero shadow detail - probably close to zero midtone detail. Think a landscape where the negative has black for the sky and transparent for everything else.

If you want more "normal" results, shoot closer to iso6 and develop in POTA for 15-20 minutes. Barring that developer, any lower contrast developer.

Kodak ortho lith film @iso~25 - probably developed in worn out paper developer.

TheGreatGasMaskMan · Oct 25, 2024

yeah, but similar to the OP, I've only got a couple developers: D76, Xtol, Hc110, and some Rodinal (and I know I shouldn't use those last two...).

I know I've got some old obscure(ish) ones stashed away at my parent's place, but don't remember what they are right now.

Don_ih · Oct 25, 2024

TheGreatGasMaskMan said:
I've only got a couple developers

Any of them will work. More dilute developers should generate lower-contrast results. You might get something less soot-and-chalk with D76 diluted 1:3 than straight D76. Same with your other developers.

TheGreatGasMaskMan · Oct 25, 2024

Typically, I like to do d76/ xtol 1:1, and I've only ever used stock if there's no other dev. information available. do you have any recommended d76 1:3 dev times?

Don_ih · Oct 25, 2024

TheGreatGasMaskMan said:
do you have any recommended d76 1:3 dev times?

You will need to test. Select a speed to shoot it at (6 or 12) and then try 15-20 minutes. If you have a darkroom, you can check on development under a red safelight.

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