Kodak XTOL trade concern announcment

[urnem57]

Phew.....didn’t want to get my hopes up....for a minute there I thought it might have been from.....oh well never mind.......

 

[Radost]

it’s $12. I just got 2 for $24. Better to just buy it than wait for Kodak.

 

[Helge]

How long does XTOL take to go bad in a partly filled bottle?
Or more aptly, how long does this suspect XTOL take to go bad in a partly filled bottle?

I mixed a batch of the suspect XTOL to use as 1:1 and I'm quickly starting to regret it.
Three rolls of HR-50 developed at box speed came out fine if a bit overexposed on some frames. But as I shot it as IR that could have many explanations. And overexposure is never something the developer can do with overdevelopment.
Before that I did a roll of Delta 3200 that came out quite thin, with some useable frames, but that was explainable, since I was asking a lot from the film, and it had been sitting for several months before.
Then I did a couple of TMAX 400 where one was OK with some kind of thin frames, and then one I shot today after having the jar sitting for three days two thirds full. And it was positively thin with with only a few OK frames.
The cameras are unlikely to be the cause.
Could it be the oxygen buffer in the developer that is faulty and runs out too quickly?
I didn't butane the top of the jar as usual, as I had run out of gas, and I figured I'd be through the jar in a week tops.

Is three days in a closed container with atmospheric air enough to kill regular XTOL?

 

[Rich Mulvey]

How long does XTOL take to go bad in a partly filled bottle?
Or more aptly, how long does this suspect XTOL take to go bad in a partly filled bottle?

I mixed a batch of the suspect XTOL to use as 1:1 and I'm quickly starting to regret it.
Three rolls of HR-50 developed at box speed came out fine if a bit overexposed on some frames. But as I shot it as IR that could have many explanations. And overexposure is never something the developer can do with overdevelopment.
Before that I did a roll of Delta 3200 that came out quite thin, with some useable frames, but that was explainable, since I was asking a lot from the film, and it had been sitting for several months before.
Then I did a couple of TMAX 400 where one was OK with some kind of thin frames, and then one I shot today after having the jar sitting for three days two thirds full. And it was positively thin with with only a few OK frames.
The cameras are unlikely to be the cause.
Could it be the oxygen buffer in the developer that is faulty and runs out too quickly?
I didn't butane the top of the jar as usual, as I had run out of gas, and I figured I'd be through the jar in a week tops.

Is three days in a closed container with atmospheric air enough to kill regular XTOL?

"Good" XTOL can go months in a closed bottle with just atmospheric air. I've done it many times.

I had a batch of the recalled ones and they were all thin from the get-go. My first two rolls, processed at different times but the same camera, I assumed it was a camera issue. The third roll from a different camera was also super thin, so I just tossed the chems.

 

[Kino]

OK, I have to retract my bile on Freestyle. They finally contacted me and offered 2 bags of LegacyPro EcoPro Ascorbic Acid Powder film developer to replace the XTOL I bought from them.

Thank you Freestyle for replacing the bad XTOL.

 

[Helge]

"Good" XTOL can go months in a closed bottle with just atmospheric air. I've done it many times.

I had a batch of the recalled ones and they were all thin from the get-go. My first two rolls, processed at different times but the same camera, I assumed it was a camera issue. The third roll from a different camera was also super thin, so I just tossed the chems.

Thanks, but how come the HR-50 was normal to a bit on the hot side then?

 

[NB23]

How long does XTOL take to go bad in a partly filled bottle?
Or more aptly, how long does this suspect XTOL take to go bad in a partly filled bottle?

I mixed a batch of the suspect XTOL to use as 1:1 and I'm quickly starting to regret it.
Three rolls of HR-50 developed at box speed came out fine if a bit overexposed on some frames. But as I shot it as IR that could have many explanations. And overexposure is never something the developer can do with overdevelopment.
Before that I did a roll of Delta 3200 that came out quite thin, with some useable frames, but that was explainable, since I was asking a lot from the film, and it had been sitting for several months before.
Then I did a couple of TMAX 400 where one was OK with some kind of thin frames, and then one I shot today after having the jar sitting for three days two thirds full. And it was positively thin with with only a few OK frames.
The cameras are unlikely to be the cause.
Could it be the oxygen buffer in the developer that is faulty and runs out too quickly?
I didn't butane the top of the jar as usual, as I had run out of gas, and I figured I'd be through the jar in a week tops.

Is three days in a closed container with atmospheric air enough to kill regular XTOL?

The way I understand your situation is that your xtol decided to be selective. Nicely developing a few frames while deciding to punish a few other frames.

But before saying that your xtol is bad, I’d put the blame on your camera.

 

[Helge]

The way I understand your situation is that your xtol decided to be selective. Nicely developing a few frames while deciding to punish a few other frames.

But before saying that your xtol is bad, I’d put the blame on your camera.

Well, its two different cameras and one is a loyal user.
Just ordered some XT-3. Let's see.
I think the selectiveness had more to do with differing lighting conditions and use of flash, on some frames.
Going to give the batch one last try with some cheap Foma film tomorrow. Any idea which one is the most correct box ISO?

 

[Helge]

The way I understand your situation is that your xtol decided to be selective. Nicely developing a few frames while deciding to punish a few other frames.

But before saying that your xtol is bad, I’d put the blame on your camera.

Actually now that I have briefly refreshed the terminology the correct word to use is probably flat, as opposed to thin.
So underdeveloped.

 

[Kino]

I just received a bag of "new Xtol" from Freestyle. Different packaging, with "Sino Promise" on the bag. Why didn't they offer you that as a replacement? Now I am worried...

That's interesting, as I indicated I would rather have XTOL, but they didn't give me that option. Even the ECO won't be shipped to me until next month. Maybe they ran out of XTOL before they contacted me?

 

[warden]

Last I heard from Sinopromise was January 4 2021, when they said they expected to send replacement chemistry to me in February.

 

[Kino]

Last I heard from Sinopromise was January 4 2021, when they said they expected to send replacement chemistry to me in February.

Same here. I gave up and started pestering Freestyle, who sold me the XTOL originally.

 

[relistan]

I finally decided to just mix up my bad XTOL and see what happens. I gave up waiting on Sino Promise and bought some ADOX XT-3 which I will use tomorrow in place of this definitely bad batch. Thought you all might be interested... there is definitely something wrong with the batch of XTOL they reported publicly.

The following pics are Kodak XTOL to be clear

This is what the part A looked like in the bag. Note the clumps and brownish color:

That's not normal. This is what it looked like out of the bag:

I was not able to get it to fully dissolve. Just wouldn't. Whatever happened to it to cause that tan clumping also won't dissolve.

After a few weeks sitting, mixed up, this is what I found (sadly it was blurry and I didn't notice until after I dumped it):

Looked like mold floating in there. Never seen that much of it before, though!

 

[Ai Print]

What temperature did you mix it at?
I got a note from “See? No Promise!” A couple weeks ago that they would be sending out the new stuff.

I’ll see what happens I guess.

 

[removedacct1]

Replies to the original email I received in December have resulted in only one message, on March 17th, in which they stated "All XTOL replacement orders are in the system and will be shipped. No date for shipping is available." (I LOVE how they managed to get new inventory into the hands of retail suppliers though) None of my subsequent emails have received a response. Yesterday I sent one last email in which I expressed my extreme disappointment in "Kodak" and their inability to correct these mistakes in chemical manufacture and that I was unlikely to buy "Kodak" chemistry again. F*ck 'em.

 

[Pat Erson]

“See? No Promise!”

I feel for you guys... and I'm so happy that - years ago - I decided to make my own D-76.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Mine I is still working fine...

 

[relistan]

What temperature did you mix it at?
.

I’ve mixed many many batches of this. Assume that I did it properly . It doesn’t normally look like that, it normally dissolves just fine, and it doesn’t look moldy like that after a few weeks. My suspicion is that there is already mold in the packet. Since @Andrew O'Neill has a pack that is fine from this batch it must not be all of them.

 

[Ernst-Jan]

I feel for you guys... and I'm so happy that - years ago - I decided to make my own D-76.

This home issue with the chemicals is the reason that I choose to use the more expensive ID-11

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Going on four months and still no replacement packages. I guess their priority is retail outlets first, then us. Thankfully mine is working fine. I'll contact Beau Photo to see if they received a shipment yet...

 

[Wallendo]

That's interesting, as I indicated I would rather have XTOL, but they didn't give me that option. Even the ECO won't be shipped to me until next month. Maybe they ran out of XTOL before they contacted me?

I just order XTOL from freestyle yesterday and have already received my order confirmation.

interestingly, the prices for Eco Pro and XTOL are now the same.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

I finally decided to just mix up my bad XTOL and see what happens. I gave up waiting on Sino Promise and bought some ADOX XT-3 which I will use tomorrow in place of this definitely bad batch. Thought you all might be interested... there is definitely something wrong with the batch of XTOL they reported publicly.

The following pics are Kodak XTOL to be clear

This is what the part A looked like in the bag. Note the clumps and brownish color:

View attachment 273038

That's not normal. This is what it looked like out of the bag:

View attachment 273040

I was not able to get it to fully dissolve. Just wouldn't. Whatever happened to it to cause that tan clumping also won't dissolve.

After a few weeks sitting, mixed up, this is what I found (sadly it was blurry and I didn't notice until after I dumped it):

View attachment 273041

Looked like mold floating in there. Never seen that much of it before, though!

My bad Xtol bag (weak, undissolved particles) looked just perfect: shining white powder.
Anyway, all this has been great to me because as I wanted to test stock xtol (not replenished), I tried stock D-76 these last weeks, and it's been a revelation.
Yesterday and today I tested HP5+ in D-76 stock in the range of EI200-EI1250, in 35mm and MF: in all cases grain is totally sharp, and sharpness and acutance are great.

 

[Kino]

I just order XTOL from freestyle yesterday and have already received my order confirmation.

interestingly, the prices for Eco Pro and XTOL are now the same.

Well, that's not cool. They did not offer direct replacement. Hmmmm.

 

[relistan]

Mixed up my ADOX XT-3 (their XTOL clone) yesterday and developed a roll of Ilford HP5+ 35mm and a roll of Fomapan 100 120 this morning, using my times for XTOL. Everything looks good!

 

[urnem57]

Haven’t seen this in The US yet. Is it available here?