Kodak XTOL trade concern announcment

[Andrew O'Neill]

So far 8, 8x10 sheets of film through and all looks great. Just added a bit of fresh stock to working solution for replenishment. This seems to be all about nothing.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

So far 8, 8x10 sheets of film through and all looks great. Just added a bit of fresh stock to working solution for replenishment. This seems to be all about nothing.

It would be extremely helpful if Kodak Alaris would give some indication of what the problem was or is likely to be.

 

[Sirius Glass]

By the way all my stock XTOL is straw colored and I do not have problems with my replenished XTOL.

 

[pentaxuser]

By the way all my stock XTOL is straw colored and I do not have problems with my replenished XTOL.

Can you clarify: Is your Xtol that you add as replenisher also straw coloured or clear? I don't use replenisher but this at least reinforces that I may be alright with my current pale-straw coloured stock which I draw from an airtight( or as airtight as such bags are) winebag. Certainly when the Xtol is diluted 1+1, my usual dilution, the straw colour almost disappears

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Sirius Glass]

By the way all my stock XTOL is straw colored and I do not have problems with my replenished XTOL.

Can you clarify: Is your Xtol that you add as replenisher also straw coloured or clear? I don't use replenisher but this at least reinforces that I may be alright with my current pale-straw coloured stock which I draw from an airtight( or as airtight as such bags are) winebag. Certainly when the Xtol is diluted 1+1, my usual dilution, the straw colour almost disappears

Thanks

pentaxuser

STOCK. I posted STOCK is straw colored and it has been for a long time. No problems.

 

[petrk]

What Kodak say about Xtol is that 1L is capable of developing 15 films per litre of stock with no increase in time over the first 5 films then an increase of 15 percent over normal dev time from films 6-10 then finally another 15 % from films 11-15. Now this is remarkable both in terms of the number of films and relatively modest dev time increase.
While Excel may not manage this kind of economy can anyone say if they have tried this method and if so did they use the Kodak times and at what point did they decide to dump the 1L stock as becoming too risky to use for their own peace of mind?

Foma lists the capacity of Excel 12 films, that's all you can judge from its data. There is no information available on how to extend times, so everyone I know follows xtol instructions. Foma has published development times for films, it seems, that it mostly recommends about the same times as other manufacturers (Ilford for HP5+ in Xtol=8min, Kodak for HP5+ in Xtol 8.5 min, Foma for HP5+ in Excel 8-9 min), or slightly longer (Ilford FP4+ in Xtol=8.5 min; Kodak for FP4+ in Xtol=8min; Foma for FP4+ in Excel=10min!). But I do not know if these are differences in standardization and methods of measurement between manufacturers' laboratories, or it means differences in composition. As I said, for film I use I follow Kodak instructions.
As for economics, Excel is slightly more expensive than Xtol. But packing 1L completely changes the situation. I've never pushed Excel to the limit of 12 films, so I don't know its true capacity. I always poured the working solution earlier, because it was easily available 1l completely fresh. I think 8-10 films was maximum.

 

[wyofilm]

It would be extremely helpful if Kodak Alaris would give some indication of what the problem was or is likely to be.

In my opinion when reading their press release the tight but unusual phase 'trade concern' in a sea of gibberish means that they don't want us to know what the problem is.

Has anyone heard back from Kodak Alaris about their 'trade concern' Xtol, yet? Even a 'thanks for your email, more details are forthcoming' type of response?

 

[Donald Qualls]

I haven't, yet -- you can see the date I emailed back up the thread, but it was probably while most/all of their staff was out for the holidays. We'll probably see a bunch of responses within the coming week, now that New Year's is past.

 

[pentaxuser]

STOCK. I posted STOCK is straw colored and it has been for a long time. No problems.

Thanks. I had just wondered how much, if any, the addition of a small amount of what I presume to be fresh as in clear replenisher keeps the straw coloured stock just the right side of fully active. Hopefully not by much otherwise my situation with ageing stock only is a comparing my apples with your pears. Is this a reasonable conclusion on my part?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[warden]

I heard back from Sino Promise today. They're copy/pasting the same message they sent me last year with a couple of changes. Here's the Xtol email I got from KA back in December 2019:

Thanks for reaching out to us and bringing this issue to our attention. Regarding our XTOL developer that you have we’ll certainly get this taken care of for you.

Given the circumstances, we’re going to go ahead and get this item replaced for you with new product. For this, we’ll just need some information from you. At your convenience, please reply to my email with the following:

• Phone Number:

• Preferred Email Address:

• Your Shipping Address (for replacement):

• Quantity of XTOL for Replacement

Regarding the current XTOL product you have in your care, please feel free to dispose of it as there is no need to return this to us at Kodak Alaris.

We apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you and that our product did not meet expectations. Rest assured that your replacement product will meet all appropriate criteria.

Thanks, and I’ll keep an eye out for your response and please don’t hesitate to keep in touch if you have any further questions.

​

And now here's the email I received today, with emphasis added to the changes:

Thanks for reaching out to us and bringing this issue to our attention. Regarding our XTOL developer that you have we’ll certainly get this taken care of for you.

Given the circumstances, we’re going to go ahead and get this item replaced for you with new product. For this, we’ll just need some information from you. At your convenience, please reply to my email with the following:

• Phone Number:

• Preferred Email Address:

• Your Shipping Address (for replacement):

• Quantity of XTOL Developer for Replacement • Which Distributor did you purchase your XTOL Developer from?

Regarding the current XTOL product you have in your care, please feel free to dispose of it as there is no need to return this to us at Sino Promise.

We apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you and that our product did not meet expectations. Rest assured that your replacement product directly and it will meet all appropriate criteria. I expect the replacement product to be sent to you by mid-February.

Thanks, and I’ll keep an eye out for your response and please don’t hesitate to keep in touch if you have any further questions.
​

The only other difference between the two emails was that the 2019 KA email was signed by a person with a personal email and phone number, and the Sino Promise email was not.

​

 

[runswithsizzers]

In my opinion when reading their press release the tight but unusual phase 'trade concern' in a sea of gibberish means that they don't want us to know what the problem is.

Has anyone heard back from Kodak Alaris about their 'trade concern' Xtol, yet? Even a 'thanks for your email, more details are forthcoming' type of response?

I sent an email to <ProPaperChem@kodakalaris.com> on Jan 1, 2021 and got a Reply on Jan 4, 2021. The Reply asks for my phone, email, mailing address, and where I bought it - and promises to send a replacement to me by mid-February. There was no request for proof of purchase, and no request for me to return anything.

[Edit: Just as shown by the post above which appeared while I was typing this.]

 

[removed account4]

I heard back from Sino Promise today. They're copy/pasting the same message they sent me last year with a couple of changes. Here's the Xtol email I got from KA back in 2019:

Thanks for reaching out to us and bringing this issue to our attention. Regarding our XTOL developer that you have we’ll certainly get this taken care of for you.

Given the circumstances, we’re going to go ahead and get this item replaced for you with new product. For this, we’ll just need some information from you. At your convenience, please reply to my email with the following:

• Phone Number:

• Preferred Email Address:

• Your Shipping Address (for replacement):

• Quantity of XTOL for Replacement

Regarding the current XTOL product you have in your care, please feel free to dispose of it as there is no need to return this to us at Kodak Alaris.

We apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you and that our product did not meet expectations. Rest assured that your replacement product will meet all appropriate criteria.

Thanks, and I’ll keep an eye out for your response and please don’t hesitate to keep in touch if you have any further questions.​

And now here's the email I received today, with emphasis added to the changes:

Thanks for reaching out to us and bringing this issue to our attention. Regarding our XTOL developer that you have we’ll certainly get this taken care of for you.

Given the circumstances, we’re going to go ahead and get this item replaced for you with new product. For this, we’ll just need some information from you. At your convenience, please reply to my email with the following:

• Phone Number:

• Preferred Email Address:

• Your Shipping Address (for replacement):

• Quantity of XTOL Developer for Replacement • Which Distributor did you purchase your XTOL Developer from?

Regarding the current XTOL product you have in your care, please feel free to dispose of it as there is no need to return this to us at Sino Promise.

We apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you and that our product did not meet expectations. Rest assured that your replacement product directly and it will meet all appropriate criteria. I expect the replacement product to be sent to you by mid-February.

Thanks, and I’ll keep an eye out for your response and please don’t hesitate to keep in touch if you have any further questions.
​

The only other difference between the two emails was that the 2019 KA email was signed by a person with a personal email and phone number, and the Sino Promise email was not.

​

at least they responded !
so far they have alerted the general public of a faulty product so they don't have potential troubles and they have responded with a well crafted email.
It sounds like the users of their products are in good hands.

 

[warden]

at least they responded !
so far they have alerted the general public of a faulty product so they don't have potential troubles and they have responded with a well crafted email.
It sounds like the users of their products are in good hands.

Yes I think Matt was correct when he suggested that they simply alerted Facebook before the holiday break, hence the one week delay in emailing customers. My email response took only a few days.

 

[Kino]

I too got the email.

Very encouraging they responded so quickly! I am satisfied they are acting in a responsible manner and will patiently wait for my replacement bags of XTOL.

Edit: Now what do I do with the supposedly bad bags I have? Time to experiment I guess...

 

[Tom Kershaw]

So is KA now only responsible for marketing the Eastman Kodak Company manufactured films? Edit: I've just checked my e-mails and have received a response. Oddly there is this in the e-mail:
[CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Kodak Alaris. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.]

 

[removedacct1]

I too received a reply to my email requesting replacement of the affected Xtol I had in my possession. They asked for mailing, phone information and where the Xtol was purchased, and stated that they would ship replacement product "by mid-February". The message included an apology for any inconvenience and was polite, prompt, and produced a satisfactory outcome.

As for the use of the phrase "trade concern", I think its pointless to read into it too much. One of my packages of Xtol (from the affected lot) was mixed a few weeks ago and I developed a few rolls of TMY with it the same day. I got surprisingly thin negatives as a result, and did not use the remainder, assuming there was a manufacturing error with the product. So I waited to see if Kodak made any announcement about it - and they did.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I got the email as well!

 

[Tom Taylor]

I just received a response:

On Monday, January 4, 2021, 11:55:09 AM PST, ProPaperChem <propaperchem@kodakalaris.com> wrote:

Thanks for reaching out to us and bringing this issue to our attention. Regarding our XTOL developer that you have we’ll certainly get this taken care of for you.
Given the circumstances, we’re going to go ahead and get this item replaced for you with new product. For this, we’ll just need some information from you. At your convenience, please reply to my email with the following:
• Phone Number:
• Preferred Email Address:
• Your Shipping Address (for replacement):
• Quantity of XTOL Developer for Replacement • Which Distributor did you purchase your XTOL Developer from?
Regarding the current XTOL product you have in your care, please feel free to dispose of it as there is no need to return this to us at Sino Promise.
We apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you and that our product did not meet expectations. Rest assured that your replacement product will meet all appropriate criteria. I expect the replacement product to be sent to you by mid-February.
Thanks, and I’ll keep an eye out for your response and please don’t hesitate to keep in touch if you have any further questions.

I don't know if I am going to trust the replacement at this time. Probably wait to see if there are any complaints about the batch.

 

[Frank53]

I also got the above mentioned reply from kodak. reminds me of the situation with tmax 120 films a few years ago. I contacted them, got a quick reply and they sent me replacement.
regards
Frank

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I too got the email.

Very encouraging they responded so quickly! I am satisfied they are acting in a responsible manner and will patiently wait for my replacement bags of XTOL.

Edit: Now what do I do with the supposedly bad bags I have? Time to experiment I guess...

As I mentioned earlier, mine seems to be working just fine, so I'm keeping them...at least the first package is working fine. I'll run a clip test when I mix up another package. Cheers!

 

[wyofilm]

I got surprisingly thin negatives as a result, and did not use the remainder, assuming there was a manufacturing error with the product.

If I wrote that sentence, I would probably never trust the manufacturer again. Mistakes happen (usually infrequently), but if my first assumption was manufacturing error, I would move on.

 

[Sirius Glass]

If I wrote that sentence, I would probably never trust the manufacturer again. Mistakes happen (usually infrequently), but if my first assumption was manufacturing error, I would move on.

+1

Other than myself, who else here has never made a mistake.
Oh, once I thought that I had misjudged something but in the end it turn out that I had been right all along.

 

[MattKing]

Ironically, I haven't received a reply yet to my email.
Of course, I directed mine to an individual, along with copying it to the general email address in the Facebook posting as well.
As for the Kodak Alaris footer, I expect that their entire email system is still on the Kodak Alaris servers, and will be there until the entire system is migrated.
Sino Promise bought a business, including employment relationships, that is spread all around the world, including two factories on two continents. And that deal completed just over a month ago.
,

 

[MattKing]

So is KA now only responsible for marketing the Eastman Kodak Company manufactured films?

The still films.
Plus the other digital oriented office scanning technology which we don't pay any attention to here, and is apparently a growing business.

 

[pentaxuser]

I wonder if the inclusion of a question about from which distributor the Xtol was purchased has any significance It would suggest a link or at least SinoPromise's feeling that there may be a link between the problem and the distributor? Or might there be another reason for asking this question that gives SinoPromise other important information about distributors that might have nothing to do with the actual problem?

pentaxuser