Kodak XTOL trade concern announcment

[lantau]

I received two units, which I bought from Foto Impex. Just a regular purchase. The two bags are glued together, not in a bag anymore. It says Made in Germany for Kodak Alaris. There is a code printed, which may indicate a date of manufacture of Jan 2021.

I have an old bag of D76 left over. It expired in 2019, which means it should have been made by the old Tetenal? The Xtol bags are the exact same as the D76 bag. Same size, same haptic.

I only ever used two packs of Xtol before. I bought them early last year. I made the first 5L and used it stock until I reached close to 5 films per litre and hoped it'd be seasoned. Then made up the second pack of 5L which had white residue in the solution. I've been using that for replenishment.

I thought it works fine. But I started to expose step wedges onto sheet film and fed that to my densitometer. Foma 200 gave me around ISO50, according to the spreadsheet I'm using. That's weak, even for Foma. Maybe I've been using thin developer all the time?`

Anyway, I mixed up a pack of the new Xtol. No white residue. I should have developed one of my exposed step wedge sheets (I made five and store them in a box) by now... I guess it'll be next weekend.

For the last sheet I used the 1+1 time. This time with fresh stock Xtol I'll use the stock time again. Maybe I'll finally hit the required Zone VIII density and better Film speed.

 

[MattKing]

I received two units, which I bought from Foto Impex. Just a regular purchase. The two bags are glued together, not in a bag anymore. It says Made in Germany for Kodak Alaris. There is a code printed, which may indicate a date of manufacture of Jan 2021.

That is the older version. Not the intermediate version. The date is probably the "use before" date.

 

[mshchem]

That is the older version. Not the intermediate version. The date is probably the "use before" date.

Yep, looks like Foto Impex found some of the "good stuff" before Xtolapocalypse. It's amazing how a simple product can get so screwed up, twice.

I'm still waiting for my pouch. Not sure I will mess with it. So frustrating, I miss the 20th century.

 

[Henning Serger]

As I have now completely finished my very detailed and intensive test runs with ADOX XT-3 developer - which has been designed by ADOX directly as an XTOL alternative - I am meanwhile very relaxed concerning the topic XTOL:
Here are my test results:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/adox-xt-3-developer-further-and-final-test-results.184641/

With the new ADOX XT-3 we have a developer which
- delivers the same very good results XTOL is known for in some parameters
- delivers significantly improved and better results in several other important parameters.
Therefore XT-3 is the overall better / superior product.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[focus_on_infinity]

I am impressed. My 3 bags of replacement Xtol arrived today.

Mine still hasn't arrived...

When did you request it?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

When did you request it?

In January.

 

[focus_on_infinity]

In January.

@focus_on_infinity I sent them the first email on December 31, 2020

OK, so, that gives us a timeline. I'm late March, so, maybe by September, assuming they don't forget. Definitely won't finish my current batch by then.

 

[warden]

@focus_on_infinity I sent them the first email on December 31, 2020

me too. I haven’t received the replacements yet but I see other people are getting theirs so maybe it’s in the works.

 

[MattKing]

Andrew and I are both in Canada, so there may be different distribution issues involved as well.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Just checked to make sure. January 4, was when sino-promise replied.

 

[cjbecker]

has anybody ordered xtol recently from one of the big stores? (BH) just wondering if it is the new or old xtol they are selling?

 

[focus_on_infinity]

has anybody ordered xtol recently from one of the big stores? (BH) just wondering if it is the new or old xtol they are selling?

I bought new Xtol from Freestyle in April. IIRC they had been out for a while. I presume that means they pulled the defective stock.

 

[urnem57]

Don’t give up. Yet. I saw The FEDEX Truck in front of my house & the guy walking to my door with a box. I hadn’t ordered anything and had no delivery scheduled. I thought that he was at the wrong address again. Wrong. A box full of Replacement Xtol had arrived. I also first contacted them in December 2020. A pleasant surprise. I have not tested it yet.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Don’t give up. Yet. I saw The FEDEX Truck in front of my house & the guy walking to my door with a box. I hadn’t ordered anything and had no delivery scheduled. I thought that he was at the wrong address again. Wrong. A box full of Replacement Xtol had arrived. I also first contacted them in December 2020. A pleasant surprise. I have not tested it yet.

That is reassuring, indeed!

 

[Tom Taylor]

Don’t give up. Yet. I saw The FEDEX Truck in front of my house & the guy walking to my door with a box. I hadn’t ordered anything and had no delivery scheduled. I thought that he was at the wrong address again. Wrong. A box full of Replacement Xtol had arrived. I also first contacted them in December 2020. A pleasant surprise. I have not tested it yet.

If you sign-up for an account at FedEx they will send you an email when they receive it saying that it's from Sino Promise. That way you'll know its on its way and when to expect it. Either that or Sino Promise requested that I be notified.

Thomas

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I guess it'll get here when it gets here. I'm still having no issues with the batch in question.

 

[mshchem]

As I have now completely finished my very detailed and intensive test runs with ADOX XT-3 developer - which has been designed by ADOX directly as an XTOL alternative - I am meanwhile very relaxed concerning the topic XTOL:
Here are my test results:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/adox-xt-3-developer-further-and-final-test-results.184641/

With the new ADOX XT-3 we have a developer which
- delivers the same very good results XTOL is known for in some parameters
- delivers significantly improved and better results in several other important parameters.
Therefore XT-3 is the overall better / superior product.

Best regards,
Henning

Is the Adox XT-3 produced by Adox in their new blending facility? From the few pictures I've seen it looks like a perfect setup for batch blending. Perfect for this sort of thing.

 

[mshchem]

Alaris managed to destroy a century old brand of photochemicals. It will be a couple years before I touch any new Sino (all we really wanted was the color chemistry and paper) black and white products.

 

[grat]

Alaris managed to destroy a century old brand of photochemicals. It will be a couple years before I touch any new Sino (all we really wanted was the color chemistry and paper) black and white products.

You know... You're welcome to your opinion, but here's mine: They screwed up. They tried, for the most part, to make something right that had been screwed up by others. I'm not saying you shouldn't be annoyed, but I would rather have a manufacturer that screws up, and corrects the problem, than no manufacturer at all.

Alaris did not "destroy a century old brand"-- the "century old brand" did that by being completely unprepared for the digital "revolution", and by mismanaging it's finances badly enough that they went bankrupt. Alaris, whether they did it right or not, was trying to put the brand back together and make it viable. Now Sino has been handed the crapsack that is what is left of Kodak.

Self-righteous posts like yours depress the hell out of me.

 

[mshchem]

You know... You're welcome to your opinion, but here's mine: They screwed up. They tried, for the most part, to make something right that had been screwed up by others. I'm not saying you shouldn't be annoyed, but I would rather have a manufacturer that screws up, and corrects the problem, than no manufacturer at all.

Alaris did not "destroy a century old brand"-- the "century old brand" did that by being completely unprepared for the digital "revolution", and by mismanaging it's finances badly enough that they went bankrupt. Alaris, whether they did it right or not, was trying to put the brand back together and make it viable. Now Sino has been handed the crapsack that is what is left of Kodak.

Self-righteous posts like yours depress the hell out of me.

If I'm so depressing, don't watch the news . The pre bankruptcy EKCo slid so fast no one could have saved it. Bigger than any competitor. Operations around the world, mind boggling. You are right, I shouldn't be so hard on Alaris. Probably isn't more than a dozen people left that give a hoot. People constantly being let go as the operation winds down.

I wonder if Sino was a player for the still film business? Wouldn't that have ruffled some feathers!

 

[grat]

I think Kodak could have diversified a bit, while still staying in the "photography" business. Had they been an early investor in CCD or CMOS sensor technology, they might have been able to stay relevant. The collapse of the film market might have still wiped them out-- but compare them with Fuji. Fuji's still around, hasn't gone bankrupt, and has a fairly diverse portfolio-- not bad for a company that once was basically just film. My DSLR may say "Canon" on the front, but the first digital camera I bought was an inexpensive 1.3 megapixel Fuji MX-1200-- because it was affordable, and took decent (for the time) pictures-- in spite of being fixed-focus, fixed-aperture, and producing itty-bitty photos.

I personally hope Sino succeeds-- although I'm somewhat cautious about any Chinese company doing well in the West, simply because so many of them are driven by the Chinese government's need to succeed at any cost. At the same time, film still seems to be a Big Deal in China and other parts of the Asian continent, so that helps those of us who still like film.

 

[mshchem]

I think Kodak could have diversified a bit, while still staying in the "photography" business. Had they been an early investor in CCD or CMOS sensor technology, they might have been able to stay relevant. The collapse of the film market might have still wiped them out-- but compare them with Fuji. Fuji's still around, hasn't gone bankrupt, and has a fairly diverse portfolio-- not bad for a company that once was basically just film. My DSLR may say "Canon" on the front, but the first digital camera I bought was an inexpensive 1.3 megapixel Fuji MX-1200-- because it was affordable, and took decent (for the time) pictures-- in spite of being fixed-focus, fixed-aperture, and producing itty-bitty photos.

I personally hope Sino succeeds-- although I'm somewhat cautious about any Chinese company doing well in the West, simply because so many of them are driven by the Chinese government's need to succeed at any cost. At the same time, film still seems to be a Big Deal in China and other parts of the Asian continent, so that helps those of us who still like film.

Fuji stayed competitive in cameras, lenses, pretty much everything. Kodak was the largest camera maker film, even digital for a few years. I'm very fond of Fujifilm cameras, lenses, film, well Fujichrome.
Kodak had huge government businesses, everything just went so fast.

I just bought a bunch of SinoPromise Kodak Ektacolor RA4 chemistry. I buy Fuji CA color paper. Thankfully Fujifilm still cuts color paper.

 

[Bill Burk]

I think Kodak could have diversified a bit, while still staying in the "photography" business. Had they been an early investor in CCD or CMOS sensor technology, they might have been able to stay relevant.

They had diversified as far as I am concerned, because I was part of their graphic arts lineup…

 

[Anon Ymous]

They had diversified as far as I am concerned, because I was part of their graphic arts lineup…

IIRC, they had diversified and some of their subsidiaries were doing very well (such as Eastman chemicals), but they chose to sell/spin them off. This proved to be a very bad decision, because these still make healthy profits.

 

[MattKing]

IIRC, they had diversified and some of their subsidiaries were doing very well (such as Eastman chemicals), but they chose to sell/spin them off. This proved to be a very bad decision, because these still make healthy profits.

Eastman Chemicals is doing well, but it went through some very difficult times initially.
In most cases, Eastman Kodak didn't create separate subsidiaries and then sell them off. They sold operating divisions. In several cases the employees in those divisions participated in the purchase.
They were doing stuff like this as far back as the 1960s - Eastman Stores (?) to Treck Photographic being an example I was familiar with.