Kodak XTOL trade concern announcment

[Andrew O'Neill]

Mine came in the smaller packaging which I believe was like your first set. I wonder if the Kodak rep you guys were recently talking to sent you the second box? How many were you supposed to get replaced? I only initially bought 2, which I did get in my box.

Four were to be replaced.

 

[MattKing]

I just got home after a very long day on Vancouver Island.
A box was waiting for me. I'll open it and report tomorrow.
The box is from Colorado.
It may be that Andrew's doubled replacement reflect packages from the regular replacement process, plus replacements because of our mutual additional communications.

 

[Film-Niko]

I just got home after a very long day on Vancouver Island.
A box was waiting for me. I'll open it and report tomorrow.
The box is from Colorado.
It may be that Andrew's doubled replacement reflect packages from the regular replacement process, plus replacements because of our mutual additional communications.

Could you please report about the packaging? And where the batch was made? Still "Made in Germany" (by Tetenal), or now "Made in USA" (probably Champion)?
Thanks very much in advance!

 

[mshchem]

Are these the guys who make Arista color chemistry???

https://www.photosys.com

Unicolor guys

 

[MattKing]

Could you please report about the packaging? And where the batch was made? Still "Made in Germany" (by Tetenal), or now "Made in USA" (probably Champion)?
Thanks very much in advance!

Sure, but does Champion still have US manufacturing capacity?

 

[MattKing]

Mine are the smaller double foil plastic laminate bags of X-Tol - actually a convenient size that retailers will like.
The Part A bag is 270g/9.5 oz and Lot 2021/06/28/13968 EXP: 2024/06 while part B bag is 244gm/8.6 oz and Lot 2021/05/18/13684 EXP:2024/05
Both Made in USA for Sino Sino Promise Limited (in the UK) and Sino Promise Inc. (in the USA)
Weirdly, while both make all those references to Sino Promise, the website address right underneath is www.kodakalaris.com/go/professional, which of course gets you to a page not found memo on Kodak Alaris' site.
For Andrew: do the larger white bags contain two smaller bags that seem similar to the smaller bags?
I also received a requested replacement of two packages of Dektol. Also Sino Promise Made in USA, also foil plastic laminates, and also the Kodak Alaris web address.
Intriguingly, while the X-Tol is marked copyright 2019 Sino Promise Inc., the Dektol is marked copyright 2019 Kodak Alaris Inc.

 

[mshchem]

Is the Dektol still brown? Jeez

 

[warden]

Is the Dektol still brown? Jeez

These reports don't fill me with confidence. And apparently they've hired a teenager to design their website. What on earth are they thinking?

 

[Radost]

These reports don't fill me with confidence. And apparently they've hired a teenager to design their website. What on earth are they thinking? View attachment 283151

New XTOL works just fine.

 

[MattKing]

That is actually on the Kodak Alaris site. It is the graphic they use when someone tries to link to an expired former link on their site - in that case the page where one used to find information about Kodak chemicals (which is no longer part of the Kodak Alaris business).
The new owners of that business - Sino Promise - must have missed updating the website link on the packaging. And of course any older packaging, from back when Kodak Alaris owned the photochemical business, will still have the old link.
The current Sino Promise link for information on the Kodak photochemicals is this page on their new Kodak Professional Imaging Solutions website: https://kodak.sinopromise.com/photo-chemistry.html.
Attention to the need for the website link update has recently been drawn to their attention .

 

[MattKing]

Is the Dektol still brown? Jeez

From the Kodak Professional Imaging Solutions website: https://kodak.sinopromise.com/photo-chemistry.html.

Update for US Customers: KODAK PROFESSIONAL DEKTOL Developer / Packet to make 1 gal (CAT# 105 8296)
The color issue with Dektol has been solved.
New batches of DEKTOL with date codes of January 2021 or later are completely normal.
US distributors reordering DEKTOL in 2021 are receiving these new batches.

 

[warden]

New XTOL works just fine.

I'll take your word for it.

 

[mshchem]

From the Kodak Professional Imaging Solutions website: https://kodak.sinopromise.com/photo-chemistry.html.

Update for US Customers: KODAK PROFESSIONAL DEKTOL Developer / Packet to make 1 gal (CAT# 105 8296)
The color issue with Dektol has been solved.
New batches of DEKTOL with date codes of January 2021 or later are completely normal.
US distributors reordering DEKTOL in 2021 are receiving these new batches.

Yea, hopefully Kodak branded black and white chemistry is back to normal.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

"For Andrew: do the larger white bags contain two smaller bags that seem similar to the smaller bags?"

@MattKing The only white bag with two smaller bags I got was from Beau Photo back in December. The two replacement orders I received had the small foil-like A and B bags, glue-gunned together, and the second box that came contained larger A and B bags, also glue-gunned together. Upon closer inspection the two replacement bags are very similar. The only difference is the second replacement bags are a bit larger, as you can see in the photo I posted above. The good news is is that I now have heaps of Xtol to keep me going for ages!

 

[mshchem]

"For Andrew: do the larger white bags contain two smaller bags that seem similar to the smaller bags?"

@MattKing The only white bag with two smaller bags I got was from Beau Photo back in December. The two replacement orders I received had the small foil-like A and B bags, glue-gunned together, and the second box that came contained larger A and B bags, also glue-gunned together. Upon closer inspection the two replacement bags are very similar. The only difference is the second replacement bags are a bit larger, as you can see in the photo I posted above. The good news is is that I now have heaps of Xtol to keep me going for ages!

Are the larger bags labeled "made in USA"?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Are the larger bags labeled "made in USA"?

Yes. Made in the USA for Sino-promise.

 

[mshchem]

Yes. Made in the USA for Sino-promise.

Thanks for the information. Looks like SinoPromise has things running more smoothly now.
Best Mike

 

[Film-Niko]

Sure, but does Champion still have US manufacturing capacity?

Thank you very much for posting all the details, Matt!

Honestly I don't know whether Champion is still manufacturing any photo chemistry. I know they did it in the past for Kodak and Ilford. And then both Kodak and Ilford switched to Tetenal.
As on the new packaging now "Made in USA" is printed......beside Photosys AFAIK there no are other possible photo chemistry manufacturers who could do larger production runs.

Anyway, as posted in a different thread I meanwhile have also tested Adox XT-3 and compared it to XTOL. And XT-3 is much better in many respect, with many parameters. And on the same level with all the others. But not worse in a single parameter. Adox' R&D team did an amazing job!
XT-3 is the better product. I did not expect that at all considering how good XTOL already is. But Adox has even surpassed it. Very nice.

 

[MattKing]

As I understand it, the larger bags that Andrew received were a short-term interim solution while Sino Promise worked to do an initial revamp of the labeling.
And the revamp of packaging and labelling is still happening - e.g. the website update.
They are also looking at package quantities.
On the subject of Champion (who initially started in Canada), they were manufacturing colour chemicals for Eastman Kodak and ended up being one of the largest unpaid creditors in the Eastman Kodak bankruptcy, and suffered greatly. Any remnant that still may be around (in Indonesia?) is unlikely to want to have anything to do with the Kodak brand!
I like Adox, but I'd rather use properly functioning X-Tol.

 

[warden]

As I understand it, the larger bags that Andrew received were a short-term interim solution while Sino Promise worked to do an initial revamp of the labeling.
And the revamp of packaging and labelling is still happening - e.g. the website update.
They are also looking at package quantities.
On the subject of Champion (who initially started in Canada), they were manufacturing colour chemicals for Eastman Kodak and ended up being one of the largest unpaid creditors in the Eastman Kodak bankruptcy, and suffered greatly. Any remnant that still may be around (in Indonesia?) is unlikely to want to have anything to do with the Kodak brand!
I like Adox, but I'd rather use properly functioning X-Tol.

Thanks for the background info!

 

[Film-Niko]

On the subject of Champion (who initially started in Canada), they were manufacturing colour chemicals for Eastman Kodak and ended up being one of the largest unpaid creditors in the Eastman Kodak bankruptcy, and suffered greatly. Any remnant that still may be around (in Indonesia?) is unlikely to want to have anything to do with the Kodak brand!

Thank you very much for this info, Matt. This detail is new to me.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I like Adox, but I'd rather use properly functioning X-Tol.

I'd be very happy to give the Adox product a try -- when it's readily available in the USA. Shipping photo chemicals from Germany just isn't going to happen for me, especially when I can get a drop-in replacement of Xtol from an American supplier (the same one that will have XT-3 when it finally makes it here in regular distribution). BTW, unless it's sitting in my mailbox (didn't check my mail yesterday) I haven't seen the replacement for the two bags of "trade concern" Xtol I emailed about in February -- but I do have two 5L packs of EcoPro.

 

[Auer]

I'd be very happy to give the Adox product a try -- when it's readily available in the USA. Shipping photo chemicals from Germany just isn't going to happen for me, especially when I can get a drop-in replacement of Xtol from an American supplier (the same one that will have XT-3 when it finally makes it here in regular distribution). BTW, unless it's sitting in my mailbox (didn't check my mail yesterday) I haven't seen the replacement for the two bags of "trade concern" Xtol I emailed about in February -- but I do have two 5L packs of EcoPro.

Have you tried EcoPro yet?
Curious about your opinion.

I have used it for about 6 months or so, I use stock and replenish.
I like the results even tho it's a bit bulkier at 5L to keep around than my usual solutions.

I have space, just prefer not to have a lot of different dev's hanging around and potentially never get used enough.
But I could make this my main dev easily enough.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Have you tried EcoPro yet?

I have not yet mixed the stock solution. I do also plan to use replenished stock, as all reports I've seen are that (aside potentially tuning the replenishment rate) it works the same and replenishes the same, and I've gotten to quite like replenished Xtol. I did buy a wine box (with extra bags), so when I mix it, it'll go into a single sealed container from which I'll pour the working solution (2L because my sheet film tank takes 1.6+ L to cover 4x5) and each replenishment. I might, however, need to acquire a 100 ml graduate; the syringe I have that's large enough isn't marked finer than 5 ml and is hard to fill from something like a wine box/bladder.

 

[focus_on_infinity]

I'd be very happy to give the Adox product a try -- when it's readily available in the USA. Shipping photo chemicals from Germany just isn't going to happen for me, especially when I can get a drop-in replacement of Xtol from an American supplier (the same one that will have XT-3 when it finally makes it here in regular distribution). BTW, unless it's sitting in my mailbox (didn't check my mail yesterday) I haven't seen the replacement for the two bags of "trade concern" Xtol I emailed about in February -- but I do have two 5L packs of EcoPro.

I just got mine the other day. I emailed them again recently, which possibly kicked the process up a bit. Either way, I'm using all 2021 XTOL at the moment, and it's doing fine for me.

I have not yet mixed the stock solution. I do also plan to use replenished stock, as all reports I've seen are that (aside potentially tuning the replenishment rate) it works the same and replenishes the same, and I've gotten to quite like replenished Xtol. I did buy a wine box (with extra bags), so when I mix it, it'll go into a single sealed container from which I'll pour the working solution (2L because my sheet film tank takes 1.6+ L to cover 4x5) and each replenishment. I might, however, need to acquire a 100 ml graduate; the syringe I have that's large enough isn't marked finer than 5 ml and is hard to fill from something like a wine box/bladder.

I started using a 5L wine box for XTOL this year, and I really like working with it replenished that way. It's just easy. I keep a 500ml working bottle out, and don't worry about dates or tracking the number of rolls processed from a batch. I'll probably end up settling on XTOL as my go-to developer.