Kodak XTOL trade concern announcment

Bad Xtol.
It doesn't work.
Totally weak negatives.
As if developed for a third of the right time.
I'll throw it right now.

Juan Valdenebro said:

Bad Xtol.
It doesn't work.
Totally weak negatives.
As if developed for a third of the right time.
I'll throw it right now.

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Bummer. Sorry to hear that.

My replacement from the first time is sitting on the hall bureau. It's in the 2nd recall. Mine's going in the bin. I didn't have a problem with the first recalled material. But I'm done with these folks for now.

Helge said:

Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?

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ProPaperChem@kodakalaris.com

They told me the replacements would be delivered by mid January. Not a sign of it yet.

Rich Mulvey said:

ProPaperChem@kodakalaris.com

They told me the replacements would be delivered by mid January. Not a sign of it yet.

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Thanks!

Particles? Grains of rice, perhaps?

The problem X-Tol is from Germany.

MattKing said:

The problem X-Tol is from Germany.

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Yes, which shows that the legendary German quality took a pass on this one. I have the "Good German" stuff, plenty to tide me over until this is sorted. Sino Promise makes lovely color chemistry. I've been using the C41 and RA4 chemistry for several years.

Andrew O'Neill said:

Bummer. Sorry to hear that.

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Thank you, Andrew... No problem with me, I wouldn't even want another bag for some time... Maybe next year...
I have a few gallon bags and boxes of D-76 and Microphen, and two bottles of FX-39, so I can go on...
By the way, both the mixing of the Xtol and the water for the 1+1 dilution were distilled water.
I just developed the roll I wanted to do in Xtol: finally it was D-76 1+1 for Tri-X, so common but so good looking...
I know Xtol means a small advantage over D-76 in the three fields, but I've learnt to use D-76 well, and its speed, grain and sharpness are a lot better than what I used to get some years ago: I love D-76. I'd say the graph by Kodak, the one with the sliders, was a visual exaggeration of those differences, just to position Xtol in the mind of buyers: differences are so small the sliders should really be basically in the same place...
I can't think of any good photograph by the photographers I like, that could have been a better photograph because of using Xtol instead of D-76. Not in the slightest way.
And I like Kodak the same: these things can happen... Once the problem has been distributed to the world, what could they do? It's hard to solve...
I prefer to forget ten euros: Kodak products have been wonderful to me all my life.

Juan Valdenebro said:

I prefer to forget ten euros: Kodak products have been wonderful to me all my life.

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Send the email request.
It is much more helpful to Sino Promise and all their ex-Kodak employees and the Kodak brand to have a happier customer than one who just chalks it up to bad fortune.

MattKing said:

Send the email request.
It is much more helpful to Sino Promise and all their ex-Kodak employees and the Kodak brand to have a happier customer than one who just chalks it up to bad fortune.

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Hi Matt,
Do you call it bad fortune? I didn't...
Happy customer? I am the happy customer.
They'll resolve it their way: they made a mistake, but my time and my mind don't have my permission to wander around it: my world is about making photographs, and I like Kodak a hundred percent, no matter if they have one or ten problems. Apart from Ilford, I've used Kodak products for 35 years: not a single problem, ever.
I respect others' opinions and even others' anger.
But I don't care about all that: at Kodak they make great films and chemicals.
Other small issues or words don't describe the way I see it. For sure they're correcting things.

Juan:
The bad fortune was that which was visited upon Kodak Alaris when their previously reliable supplier(s) went into bankruptcy/started supplying defective product/were visited themselves by bad fortune.
In a perfect world, the sometimes defective product would be caught before reaching customers, but the film photography world has lost much of the capacity it once had to catch such things.
It actually helps Sino Promise if you request replacement developer.

When I mixed up my first batch last November of the problem batch, it too had particles floating around that didn't dissolve. And I warmed my water up as well. But they did go away eventually. Yeah I had no issues with the batch I mixed up. I even used it as late as last month with no issues. I keep mine in a sealed wine bag.

braxus said:

When I mixed up my first batch last November of the problem batch, it too had particles floating around that didn't dissolve. And I warmed my water up as well. But they did go away eventually. Yeah I had no issues with the batch I mixed up. I even used it as late as last month with no issues. I keep mine in a sealed wine bag.

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Mine i made up also had a lot of particles even with warmish water. They've settled on the bottom. I filter before use and negatives have come out fine.

As I see it, you show active interest in the community and in future products by sending Sino a request.
They are actually performing a pretty reasonably priced rough market survey this way.
If you have any interest in future use of XTOL, send them a request now.
It's not (only) selfish.

My last batch (probably one with the "trade concern") had these white flakes too. Mixed to warm water (25-30 deg C). And three mails to Kodak Alaris, no response still.

vedostuu said:

My last batch (probably one with the "trade concern") had these white flakes too. Mixed to warm water (25-30 deg C). And three mails to Kodak Alaris, no response still.

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You have checked to make sure it didn't get labeled spam?

grat said:

You have checked to make sure it didn't get labeled spam?

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No sign of response there.. Well, for my part I have got refund already so this is not a deal anymore. Just a update same time that I reported about the flakes.

Matt, Michael, I had understood the point before... I just don't want my bag replaced. I don't really care about Xtol or its clones...
If you think my single email could help change the world, well, sure I hope so, and I'd love to see that happen, but here's an idea: get some friends buying some defective bags to be able to send several messages more... That would surely help a lot more than my single message.
If Kodak started misbehaving with TMX, TMY and D-76, that would touch me, and I'd be involved then. Thanks.

Juan,
If nothing else, it helps that Sino Promise knows that the problem extends to your location in South America.

MattKing said:

Juan,
If nothing else, it helps that Sino Promise knows that the problem extends to your location in South America.

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As I did comment yesterday, that Xtol bag was bought hours ago in a store in Madrid, Spain: I think at Kodak people already know the problem is present in Europe.
They'll fix it... Everything will be fine for Sino and ex-Kodak employees, and also for us users.

michael_r said:

Thanks to Matt for always trying to keep our heads level.

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I do that with the spirit levels that I attached to my head.

They could be overwhelmed by retards going into stores snapping photos of all the bags.
They will probably have to check against a database before they can reply.
That could take a lot of time especially if it’s a single person.
If something is free, people always get extremely eager and work 1000% more to get their free stuff, even lie and cheat to get double or triple up.
Just human nature I guess.
It’s usually the most tight wadded maxing out on this behavior.

Sirius Glass said:

I do that with the spirit levels that I attached to my head.

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Do you have a periscope mounted to your cap so you can constantly keep an eye on your levelness

Hello Adrian,

Adrian Bacon said:

I doubt that they would leave C-41 chemistry to just Fuji, especially given that it's Kodak's invention. Besides, they know about how much chemistry they have to produce based on how much c-41 film is made, as that needs to be processed after all.

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completely agreed. Sino Promise Holdings now owns the chemical plant in China in which the colour chemistry is produced. They can produce at lower costs there because of lower wages, less protection and rights for the workers, less environmental protection (all compared to USA, Europe, Japan etc.). And they have the booming Asian markets in "near distance". They would not have bought the assets from Kodak Alaris if they would not have the plan to continue that business.

Adrian Bacon said:

I doubt that they'll leave the market as that would force all the flexicolor labs to migrate to other where? That'd effectively kill C-41.

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Well that is fortunately completely wrong. Even if they would stop production of the colour chemicals, it would have no negative effect on the film revival. The film revival would simply continue at the same speed. Because we don't have any bottleneck or lack in colour chemical production. As producers we have
1. Fuji Hunt.They are running at least four factories worldwide (in the USA, Belgium, Singapore, Japan). So they can produce locally in the markets (shorter transportation distances) and at highest worker protection and environmental standards.
2. Tetenal (Germany).
3. Bellini (Italy)
4. Chugai (Japan)
5. CPAC Asia Imaging (afaik chemistry production is in China, but I am not 100% sure).
6. I know of two other photo chemistry producers who could enter the market if it would be needed.

Those of you in USA, who want to support local production and American workers, and want chemistry produced at highest environmental standards, have this option by using Fuji Hunt (because they are producing for the American markets in the US).
Those of us Europeans who have similar priorities have this option by using Fuji Hunt (produced in Belgium for the European markets), Tetenal (Germany) or Bellini (Italy).
If you are located in Asian countries or in Japan, you have this option by using Fuji Hunt or Chugai.

Adrian Bacon said:

My biggest concern is that Flexicolor does not experience the same quality problems as the BW chemistry has been having.

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I have close contacts to several professional labs. And I am talking of long-established (up to 70 years) professional labs here, with several employees, who are offering
- C41, E6 and BW film processing
- often done in dip-and-dunk processing machines
- real photo paper, silver-halide / RA-4 prints
- scans in several options up to high-res scans
- large format prints, including RA-4.
So these guys are extremely experienced, and have also been working a lot for professional photographers and big companies.
Some of them have been extremely loyal Kodak customers for decades. These have all switched to Fuji Hunt chemistry now. Because of
- better quality
- lower costs.
They have also switched to Fujifilm RA-4 papers, because the supply of Kodak papers has become very unreliable.

Concerning the Kodak BW chemistry I am very relaxed. Because I know some replacements by an established photo chemistry manufacturer are in the works. I have also already done some beta-testing of it, and the results have even been better in some parameters compared to the original Kodak chemistry.

Best regards,
Henning