@DREW WILEY I was specifically referring to HP5+ versatility with the scanning workflow. Again, this is the "analog" section but the way how we process films defines our requirements and, therefore, versatility.
Here's a flat (linear) scan of an extremely high contrast scene. The house is in a deep mountain shadow, and the hot tub area is burred even further, meanwhile the trees are hit by the direct sunlight which is even harsher at Tahoe elevation. There's no clipping. There's texture in all shadowed areas and the highlights are not blocked.
The original 16-bit ITFF can be edited to look like anything. The histogram is "smiling ear to ear" i.e. it contains more tonal values than any monitor or paper is capable of reproducing. From now on it's about deciding which information to throw away, and I have the full tonal scale to apply any kind of contrast curve I want.
I'm not criticizing T-Max films, only pointing out how versatile HP5 is.
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film can innately capture the entire SBR without these compensation techniques
There's always compression because none of our reproduction technologies can show you 11-13 stops of dynamic range. Besides, what gives you the impression that I captured the "very small" range here? I captured all of it. You're looking at a 8-bit JPEG export, while I have the RAW file which shows the huge range of tonal values captured. My point is that: you cannot even see/evaluate the entire range with a naked eye, but you can digitally decide what portion of it to fit onto the reproduction medium, be it a monitor or paper.
If we're talking about film versatility for hybrid workflow, that's all you can possibly want: to capture the fullest range of values to have the freedom to chop off whatever doesn't fit onto your monitor or paper.
What Drew is talking about, at least that's my interpretation, is being able to do the same in the darkroom. Arguably it's much harder, and I suppose T-Max 400 gives him that. Scanning is a great neutralizer.
(Asking, not arguing) So are you saying that you find that HP5+ is innately capable of capturing SBRs greater than 11?
I'm curious because there are actually 3 different ranges of light of interest:
1. The range of light found in nature.
2. The range of light a piece of film can hold w/o compensation techniques (i.e. On its straight line)
3. The range of light in the final reproductive medium
1. is well north of 15 stops as I recall
The very best films perhaps can handle 13 stops or maybe a bit more. So if 1. is greater than 2., You're forced to do some form of SBR compression/mapping. Either you loose the shadows or your compensate the highlights to squeeze everything in.
3. is 5-ish stops, at least for silver paper. As you say, that means you pick and choose the portions of the captured SBR to map onto the paper as an interpretive act.
Everybody is so busy crowing about how wide the SBR range their film has, you don't hear much about No. 3.
Chuck, I am talking about #2, i.e. the range of density values captured on film. On this 16-bit linear (this is important) scan before any contrast curves are applied, the luminosity range is about 21,300. The darkest pixels are about 3,900, the lightest are about 25,200.
21,300 is a bit above 2^14.
What I think about is:Everybody is so busy crowing about how wide the SBR range their film has, you don't hear much about No. 3.
What I think about is:
#4) the range of light a printing process can reproduce w/o compensation techniques needed for negatives for images with a large SBR.
Which is what led me to carbon printing. A way of getting the SBR as in the image below, 13 stops measured, developed normally (no compensation in the development). This is an older neg on Tri-X, I believe, and would have been developed in HC-110. I like negs with a DR of 2.8 to 3.0 or so.
I found the issue for HP5+ for me is that it does not expand as well as FP4+ and other films I use. I have a bunch of 11x14 HP5+ that I would like to play with -- find some very wide SBR images to get some power out of it.
<SNIP>
Numerous films are capable of bagging extreme ranges of luminance when specially developed for sake of that. But there is always a penalty.
A full scale 12 stop range print on HP5 simply won't have the same convincing sparkle and intricate depths of shadow as if the same shot were taken and masterfully printed from a more straight line film like TMax 400 or ole Bergger 200.
I routinely do TMY400 in PMK with excellent results. No, you won't get as deep an overall pyro stain as with HP5, for example, but it's highly effective anyway, due to so much less overall fbf than with other films. TMX100 is a different story. It of course has tremendous detail and microtonal capacity, but rather poor edge effect. So for TMX film only, I generally use Perceptol 1:3 instead, which gives me just the right amount of grain growth and mackie line effect. Of course, for something like smooth complexion portraiture, I revert back to PMK for TMY as well.
Some people prefer Pyrocat. Not me. I've tried all kinds of pyro tweaks, and even concocted a couple new ones of my own. PMK still seems the best choice for tray and hand-inversion drum developing (not rotary). The more brownish Pyrocat stain (versus yellow-green of PMK) did things to grain appearance I didn't like as well.
I routinely do TMY400 in PMK with excellent results. No, you won't get as deep an overall pyro stain as with HP5, for example, but it's highly effective anyway, due to so much less overall fbf than with other films. TMX100 is a different story. It of course has tremendous detail and microtonal capacity, but rather poor edge effect. So for TMX film only, I generally use Perceptol 1:3 instead, which gives me just the right amount of grain growth and mackie line effect. Of course, for something like smooth complexion portraiture, I revert back to PMK for TMY as well.
Some people prefer Pyrocat. Not me. I've tried all kinds of pyro tweaks, and even concocted a couple new ones of my own. PMK still seems the best choice for tray and hand-inversion drum developing (not rotary). The more brownish Pyrocat stain (versus yellow-green of PMK) did things to grain appearance I didn't like as well.
That is why I am suggesting you share a scan of a PRINT, not negative. I respect your preference for the workflow and the end result, but for sharing purposes - why not? All photo papers have a minuscule range of deflected light values compared to sensors and monitors, so 100% of it easily fits onto a scan and can be accurately reproduced digitally.Yes. But not over the web, which is next to worthless when any kind of fine visual nuance is in play.
Steven - scans of prints aren't prints, for one thing, and the web sure as heck can't possibly do justice to any nuanced print, whether in terms of tonal nuance or subtle hue reproduction. It might be a fine vehicle for general discussion and basic examples, but not for the kind of thing we're talking about here. When I get around to digitally scanning my print collection at my copy stand station, it will be for estate cataloging purposes, not for sake of secondary reproduction, though I suppose another website could be spun off of it, but again, merely for catalog ease, not as a represenatation of actual quality, which must be seen in person. The web remains a relatively crude visual instrument, just as it was designed to be for sake of speed.
It's interesting how Julia Cameron could make more nuanced platinum prints in a converted chicken coop than any digitally printed images I've ever seen; and she did it a full century before calculators. Eyes have their advantages.
Sadly, all a lot of people know is what they see on a computer or cell phone screen. The accepted standard has never before been so dismally low.
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
Most of the images on my laptop look significantly better that the photographs in my photo albums, which, on average, are execrable.
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