Kodak Rapid Color Processors

[Michael Talbert]

Does anyone happen to know when the Kodak Rapid Color Processors, Models H-11L and 16-K, the ones that used the CP-5 chemicals, were first on sale in the U.S.A? They were definitely on sale in April 1964. In the U.K they were first available in December 1964. MT

 

[Bob Carnie]

I used a 16 K in 72 in Canada , not sure when they came out , Calumet had a basket nitrogen burst system at that timeline as well and may have been used in mid 60's

Ron will definitely know the answer to this as he was at Kodak during this timeline.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I used a 16 K in 72 in Canada , not sure when they came out , Calumet had a basket nitrogen burst system at that timeline as well and may have been used in mid 60's

Ron will definitely know the answer to this as he was at Kodak during this timeline.

K16 was a one sheet at a time system , the Calumet could gang up multiple sheets and would be considered rapid access , The Hope processor came out in 73 era and I worked on the first models of roller transport.

 

[mshchem]

Does anyone happen to know when the Kodak Rapid Color Processors, Models H-11L and 16-K, the ones that used the CP-5 chemicals, were first on sale in the U.S.A? They were definitely on sale in April 1964. In the U.K they were first available in December 1964. MT

Hi Michael,
I think 1964 is about right here. They appear at the same time CP-5 hit the market . I still use mine, there's nothing faster no tubes to wash and dry. I have after market heaters for my model 11. They work perfectly well with black and white at lower temperatures. These processed fiber based Ektacolor Professional papers. The pre-soak not only relaxed the paper but saturated the fiber paper with clean water, this made for short wash times. People go crazy for Jobo, and ignore these machines. No need to preheat chemistry in a tempering bath, as the huge stainless steel drum with several kgs of tempered water keep temperature perfect. I use Thomas safelights with DUC color filters. After my eyes adjust I can see just enough to get by.
I'm a fan, works perfectly well with RA4 .

 

[BainDarret]

Those look like the machines we used to print on Agfacolor paper at Sheridan College in Oakville back in 1973. Made my first colour print on one.

 

[mshchem]

They are great for 1 to a few prints. This was aimed at the pro, enthusiast that wanted to print Ektacolor and Ektachrome prints. The bigger ones are harder to find, you could buy a decent new car for what these cost.

Here's a link to a lot of really good information

https://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Colour_Darkroom/Kodacolor_Print_Film_images.html

 

[mshchem]

K16 was a one sheet at a time system , the Calumet could gang up multiple sheets and would be considered rapid access , The Hope processor came out in 73 era and I worked on the first models of roller transport.

These became Dinosaurs when Ektaprint 3 process, rc paper, roller processors etc came along. Still for low volume folks, you could mix up a gallon of chemistry and work for a couple of weeks . My sister graduated high school in 1969 and was at the tail end of large format, black and white, hand colored portraits. From 64 until very early 70's this was a way for the little guy to transition to color.
My living history darkroom wouldn't be the same without.

 

[Michael Talbert]

Many thanks for the replies and for the encouraging remark about "Photomemorabilia" site. I write the Kodak and Agfa sections for the site.! I'm writing something about the history of the Kodak Rapid processor machines. I guess the date of introduction to be December 1963 or January 1964 but I'don't know for certain. I made my first colour prints 50 years ago on Ektacolor Commercial paper and processed them on an H-11L machine. 7 1/2 minutes wet process was incredibly fast in those days, 10 minutes faster than the Agfa "warm" process at 17 minutes.

 

[mshchem]

Many thanks for the replies and for the encouraging remark about "Photomemorabilia" site. I write the Kodak and Agfa sections for the site.! I'm writing something about the history of the Kodak Rapid processor machines. I guess the date of introduction to be December 1963 or January 1964 but I'don't know for certain. I made my first colour prints 50 years ago on Ektacolor Commercial paper and processed them on an H-11L machine. 7 1/2 minutes wet process was incredibly fast in those days, 10 minutes faster than the Agfa "warm" process at 17 minutes.

I got my model 11 in 1972, the last days of CP5 and fiber Ektacolor professional paper. I was considered a bit of a fool for buying something the camera store was trying to get rid of. I have a Simmon Omega heater(s) for my model 11, I have another manufacturer heater unit that is a bit less elegant. I love these machines.
I very much enjoy your photography memorabilia site.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I worked for the inventor of this processor. I ran many many processes from 1965 on using the small one. The thing is, with RA4, you run the risk of crossover and cyan fog. The CP5 process was rigged to retard the cyan layer due to the high surface agitation. The rinse after development was there to allow the yellow layer to catch up with the top two. I have never used this for RA4.

I have the original model of a print rocker produced by a person from outside EK who proposed it. It was very difficult to use and to get uniform prints. The guy finally sold the concept to Heath and they sold the print rocker for a few years. It is tucked away in my DR. My boss, the inventor of the drum, gave this to me when the EK trials were done. I guess it belongs in a museum somewhere. I've got lots of these kinds of odds and ends.

PE

 

[Michael Talbert]

I worked for the inventor of this processor. I ran many many processes from 1965 on using the small one. The thing is, with RA4, you run the risk of crossover and cyan fog. The CP5 process was rigged to retard the cyan layer due to the high surface agitation. The rinse after development was there to allow the yellow layer to catch up with the top two. I have never used this for RA4.

I have the original model of a print rocker produced by a person from outside EK who proposed it. It was very difficult to use and to get uniform prints. The guy finally sold the concept to Heath and they sold the print rocker for a few years. It is tucked away in my DR. My boss, the inventor of the drum, gave this to me when the EK trials were done. I guess it belongs in a museum somewhere. I've got lots of these kinds of odds and ends.

PE

Do you know when EK first marketed the two Kodak Rapid colour Processors? My guess is December 1963 or January 1964. I also used the H11-L machine for Ektachrome RC paper, Agfacolor Type 7 paper, and Gevacolor M8 paper. I thought the contrast of the prints on Ektacolor Commercial paper processed on the H11-L was always slightly higher than prints made on the same paper processed through Ektaprint C chemicals.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Hi Michael,
I think 1964 is about right here. They appear at the same time CP-5 hit the market . I still use mine, there's nothing faster no tubes to wash and dry. I have after market heaters for my model 11. They work perfectly well with black and white at lower temperatures. These processed fiber based Ektacolor Professional papers. The pre-soak not only relaxed the paper but saturated the fiber paper with clean water, this made for short wash times. People go crazy for Jobo, and ignore these machines. No need to preheat chemistry in a tempering bath, as the huge stainless steel drum with several kgs of tempered water keep temperature perfect. I use Thomas safelights with DUC color filters. After my eyes adjust I can see just enough to get by.
I'm a fan, works perfectly well with RA4 .
View attachment 215044 View attachment 215045

Fantastic someone is using these, I loved working on the K16 I think this exact unit drove in the love of printing ...Very nice to see.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Those look like the machines we used to print on Agfacolor paper at Sheridan College in Oakville back in 1973. Made my first colour print on one.

Yes we used Agfacolor at Fanshawe in 73 as well.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I do not know when it was introduced, but I first used it in June of 1965. It was in full production then. I did a lot of work on the process and chemistry for it.

PE

 

[Photo Engineer]

As a follow on, Kodak had a drum version for continuous processing of E6 film, running right down the hall from my office. It never went to market, but it was an impressive piece of hardware.

PE

 

[mshchem]

As a follow on, Kodak had a drum version for continuous processing of E6 film, running right down the hall from my office. It never went to market, but it was an impressive piece of hardware.

PE

Did anyone try developing color sheet film on the Model 11? From what I recall as a teenager using E3 and E4 the emulsion was very soft and delicate. I know that the display films (Duratrans??) could be processed. I've processed black and white prints with these machines. With RC paper at 100F it goes fast. I wouldn't recommend this.
These machines are built like a tank. A couple drops of oil every 20 years, is the only service required . The 16-K required new roller bearings due to shipping damage. There's still an American company that makes Nylon with 316 SS ball roller bearings, fit perfectly. The entire chassis is 300 series stainless, including every nut, bolt, and screw.
The pre-dispoable junk era of manufacturing.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Film had to be processed by a special drum that was banded with teflon. Otherwise, the film was scratched.

PE

 

[Michael Talbert]

I will put a date of "late 1963" on Photomemorabilia for the introduction of the H-11L and 16-K machines in the U.S.A. If someone reads it and knows of the actual date I can correct it if they contact the web site. Not an easy thing to find out; well, I am going back 55 years!!
They were good machines, I turned out some great colour prints on the H11-L at Art College. I tried Ektaprint C developer in the H11-L once, when I ran out of CP-5 dev. It worked, but the prints were rather soft in contrast. Increasing the dev. time didn't make much difference, to get the best results, you had to use the CP-5 dev.

 

[mshchem]

I will put a date of "late 1963" on Photomemorabilia for the introduction of the H-11L and 16-K machines in the U.S.A. If someone reads it and knows of the actual date I can correct it if they contact the web site. Not an easy thing to find out; well, I am going back 55 years!!
They were good machines, I turned out some great colour prints on the H11-L at Art College. I tried Ektaprint C developer in the H11-L once, when I ran out of CP-5 dev. It worked, but the prints were rather soft in contrast. Increasing the dev. time didn't make much difference, to get the best results, you had to use the CP-5 dev.

I have a new in box H11-L. It came from the then biggest (?) photo store, Altmans in Chicago. Came in a big yellow box.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Hi Michael,
I think 1964 is about right here. They appear at the same time CP-5 hit the market . I still use mine, there's nothing faster no tubes to wash and dry. I have after market heaters for my model 11. They work perfectly well with black and white at lower temperatures. These processed fiber based Ektacolor Professional papers. The pre-soak not only relaxed the paper but saturated the fiber paper with clean water, this made for short wash times. People go crazy for Jobo, and ignore these machines. No need to preheat chemistry in a tempering bath, as the huge stainless steel drum with several kgs of tempered water keep temperature perfect. I use Thomas safelights with DUC color filters. After my eyes adjust I can see just enough to get by.
I'm a fan, works perfectly well with RA4 .
View attachment 215044 View attachment 215045

If you ever want to sell the unit on the left , please do not hesitate to call me , I think it would be a super cool unit to have in my space.

 

[darkroommike]

I worked for the inventor of this processor. I ran many many processes from 1965 on using the small one. The thing is, with RA4, you run the risk of crossover and cyan fog. The CP5 process was rigged to retard the cyan layer due to the high surface agitation. The rinse after development was there to allow the yellow layer to catch up with the top two. I have never used this for RA4.

I have the original model of a print rocker produced by a person from outside EK who proposed it. It was very difficult to use and to get uniform prints. The guy finally sold the concept to Heath and they sold the print rocker for a few years. It is tucked away in my DR. My boss, the inventor of the drum, gave this to me when the EK trials were done. I guess it belongs in a museum somewhere. I've got lots of these kinds of odds and ends.

PE

Was that the Bob Mitchell stainless steel print canoe?

 

[Photo Engineer]

It might have been, but I really don't know. It was a bit before my time and was in my DR storage when I joined EK. My boss gave it to me to try in my new darkroom when I moved into it and it was not very good.

That is it.

PE

 

[bentbikr]

I got my Heath Color Canoes - 8x10 and 11x14 in 1969, I think, and my H11-L in 1970. I still have both, and occasionally use both, just for fun. I get good results with the Color Canoes, but learning to use them was a bit like developing a good golf swing. It takes regular practice to get consistently good results. I can easily waste a print or two, trying to get my "mojo" back. If my thumbs aren't right on the center-line dimples, the canoe will tip to one side, and one edge won't get wet. Doubling the volume of solutions used can help with this. (2 oz -> 4 oz per 8x10).

The H11-L consistently gives a good first print, but if I'm running a single 8x10, I can't reduce the volume of solutions for the smaller print size. I still need the full 4 oz. whether it's an 8x10 or 11x14. I have two nets for the H11-L, so I can use one while the other dries. The second net was a really good purchase decision.

bentbikr

 

[mshchem]

The recommended dosing for the model 11 is 4 us fl. oz. 120 mL. This was based on CP-5 chemistry and fiber Ektacolor professional paper. I use 90-100 mL with RA-4. I buy RA4 Developer and Blix in 10 liter batches, very inexpensive . After I do a final wash on the machine of 1 1/2 - 2 minutes, the blanket is clean, I put it into the pre-soak tray ready for the next print . I run at 100F, 45s Dev, 30s stop bath , 45s Blix , 1 1/2 min. minimum wash, squeegee then run through an Ilfospeed dryer that dries a 8x10 in about 10 seconds.

I use Thomas safelights with the DUC color filters, after your eyes adjust you can see the machine. I've never had a problem with fogging the prints. I am careful but I 3 of these safelights going. Indirectly bouncing the light of the ceiling.

Way faster than tubes. Only thing better is deep tanks and you need to be printing a lot more (unless you have a slot setup) I have heaters so temperature is steady, no water wasted. It's a fun and archaic experience. I hope color printing stays around for a long time, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Best Regards Mike
PS my canoes are the Honeywell Nikor rocking print trays, similar to the Color Canoe, not quite as dramatic of a curve.

 

[mshchem]

Dr. Bertrand Miller MD used Kodak rapid color processors for his (once) famous work developing "The Miller Method " of color printing,. Since the internet is nothing but a means of commerce now I find almost little mention of Bert Miller's work. Anyone know how I can access this.
I'm sure I have a copy of one of Bert's postings from the late 90's somewhere . Are there books, archives???
Last I find on this site was 2005.