Kodak price increase

[Sirius Glass]

Sorry - I meant bye bye from me as a customer. Don't get me wrong. I wish them every success. It's just that I won't subordinate my enjoyment of the medium to their commercial strategy, as I am more than happy with available alternatives. Others shooting mainly colour will disagree, and I understand.

And since the inflation is worldwide and effects more that Kodak, what will you do as the other film manufacturers follow with similar price increases.

 

[Anon Ymous]

And since the inflation is worldwide and effects more that Kodak, what will you do as the other film manufacturers follow with similar price increases.

They'd still be cheaper. At least considerably cheaper. I used to shoot primarily Kodak, but haven't bought any of their film for years. I have some (colour) Kodak films in the freezer and I occasionally shoot some, but won't buy any. I have more Fuji E6 in the freezer, but they too have become quite expensive. At some point I'll likely switch to digital for colour and only shoot BW films. If these also become too expensive, I'll stop using film altogether and sell my film cameras.

 

[KerrKid]

It's all a matter of priorities. Most of us can structure our income accordingly. If it takes eating out one less time a week in order to buy 5 rolls of film, we'll do it.

I used to work at McKee Bakery while going through college. They are the Little Debbie folks. I met and spoke with Mr. O.D. McKee, the founder, one day and he explained to me what his business philosophy was. He said, when times get tough people don't stop eating cookies, they just switch to less expensive ones and those are his. So he had a business model that worked in good times and bad.

That's where the Kentmere's of the world come in.

 

[albireo]

And since the inflation is worldwide and effects more that Kodak, what will you do as the other film manufacturers follow with similar price increases.

I don't think (but I might be wrong) that these Kodak price increases we're seeing are only due to inflation. I'm sure we'll see price increases across the board (Foma, Ilford, Kentmere), but what evidence do you have to suggest they'll be 'similar'?

 

[Sirius Glass]

I don't think (but I might be wrong) that these price increases we're seeing are only due to inflation. I'm sure we'll see price increases across the board, but what evidence do you have to suggest they'll be 'similar'?

In time all of the manufactures will raise their prices due to inflation, it is only a question of when and how much, not if.

 

[koraks]

I don't think (but I might be wrong) that these price increases we're seeing are only due to inflation

Prices getting higher across the board is inflation. It's pretty much the definition of the term. Hence the word, 'inflation'. Just like a balloon. It becomes almost a semantic discussion if you want to figure out if price increases constitute inflation, are due to inflation, or cause inflation. Interesting, but very prone to becoming political very quickly as well.

 

[MattKing]

If everyone making film and distributing film has to pay more for all the things and services that they have to buy - their input and output costs - their prices will have to be increased.
Different manufacturers will be visited with slightly different input and output costs, and those costs will also vary with geography and the markets they trade into, as well as the characteristics of their products (e.g. colour vs. black and white) so changes will vary.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Prices getting higher across the board is inflation. It's pretty much the definition of the term. Hence the word, 'inflation'. Just like a balloon. It becomes almost a semantic discussion if you want to figure out if price increases constitute inflation, are due to inflation, or cause inflation. Interesting, but very prone to becoming political very quickly as well.

There's also greed/thirst for maximizing profit.

I remember getting mad whenever there was a price jump in silver with corresponding Kodak film and paper price increases. Did the price of film drop when the price of silver went lower? No, never.

(Major tangent alert...mod's can remove if deemed too inflammatory). Same with gasoline prices last summer, where there were all kinds of explanations how external forces demanded the high prices, but few explanations as to those prices generating record breaking profits.

 

[GregY]

GregY, if you love TriX you owe it to yourself to try Kentmere 400. Very similar spectral response, very close to box speed, a few compromises here and there (perhaps a tad coarser grain than TriX?), but excellent consistency and quality control overall. I've been amazed by it, even in 35mm.

I just bought some Kentmere 100 in 120.... I'm not really keen on larger grain in 35mm so i tend to use TMax400 in that format if i need a fast film.
As well, with the high cost of enlarging paper, inexpensive, low qc film doesn't seem like a great deal to me....

 

[Agulliver]

It's all a matter of priorities. Most of us can structure our income accordingly. If it takes eating out one less time a week in order to buy 5 rolls of film, we'll do it.

I used to work at McKee Bakery while going through college. They are the Little Debbie folks. I met and spoke with Mr. O.D. McKee, the founder, one day and he explained to me what his business philosophy was. He said, when times get tough people don't stop eating cookies, they just switch to less expensive ones and those are his. So he had a business model that worked in good times and bad.

That's where the Kentmere's of the world come in.

It's just a shame that there isn't really a Kentmere equivalent in colour film right now. Before the pandemic and before the backlog, I could buy Kodak Color Plus for around £3-4 a roll. It's one of my favourite C41 films. OK, I prefer Fuji Superia but Color Plus is next up. Now it's back in stock at £8-10 a roll online and in physical stores. Indeed my local camera shop got a shipment in they've been waiting two years for and it sold out within a week.

Of course my big splurge financially last year was a trip to my in-laws in Arkansas and Missouri....where I happily picked up lots of Fuji Superia Xtra 400 from Wal-Mart at about 40% cheaper than the UK. Since I was making the trip anyway that's a nice little bonus. Got my C41 film for Spring 2023 at least.

I do agree though, about economising elsewhere to find money for film. Film isn't *that* expensive compared to a really good meal out or a night at the pub. Some London pubs now charge more for one pint of beer than a roll of Color Plus. So I've shifted a bit. I support my local music venue, eat out twice a month instead of once a week, do the London pub thing every two months instead of every month....and have a nice stash of film. I'm far from rich, but I also have taken the decision not to buy a house and to live in a "maisonette" to save on housing/heating/insurance costs. It's all about priorities.

But I do accept that when economising on B&W film I can choose Fomapan or Kentmere, even Rollei Retro 400S. I can also look for bargains. By keeping an eye on certain retailers it's sometimes possible to pick up a brick or two of short dated or slightly expired B&W film for a good discount, especially in 120. But for colour, there's no real option at present and I doubt there will be for some years. However, I'm just happy that Kodak and Fuji are still in the game. And that Orwo/Inoviscoat are trying, even if their product isn't yet something I am likely to buy.

 

[JParker]

OK, I prefer Fuji Superia but Color Plus is next up. Now it's back in stock at £8-10 a roll online and in physical stores. Indeed my local camera shop got a shipment in they've been waiting two years for and it sold out within a week.

Same situation here down under with film supply: For more than three years demand is surpassing supply. As soon as a new shipment comes in, it is sold out extremely fast, in a few days, often even in a few hours!
Film revival has been very strong here, with new labs and shops. Demand has been so strong that even new labs are now expanding and hiring new staff.

 

[Agulliver]

Same situation here down under with film supply: For more than three years demand is surpassing supply. As soon as a new shipment comes in, it is sold out extremely fast, in a few days, often even in a few hours!
Film revival has been very strong here, with new labs and shops. Demand has been so strong that even new labs are now expanding and hiring new staff.

I happened to drive right past Kodak-Alaris HQ last weekend, which gives an idea where in the world I live. My local camera shop cannot get hold of enough C41 film. They also process film and some days are flat out with demand for processing C41. I've spoken with other shop owners and the same story is repeated, younger people are coming new to film photography as well as more mature folk coming back to it and most want C41 film. Camera repair has also increased a lot due to people pressing old cameras back into service, or buying them on eBay and finding they need CLA or other repair.

I know of two new labs that have opened and are doing a lot of business. Of course it's not 1999 but it's a heck of a lot better than 2010. A local charity shop recently made a facebook post to the effect that they had a lot of film photography gear in, and I gather it was responsible for several visits and purchases.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

They'd still be cheaper. At least considerably cheaper. I used to shoot primarily Kodak, but haven't bought any of their film for years. I have some (colour) Kodak films in the freezer and I occasionally shoot some, but won't buy any. I have more Fuji E6 in the freezer, but they too have become quite expensive. At some point I'll likely switch to digital for colour and only shoot BW films. If these also become too expensive, I'll stop using film altogether and sell my film cameras.

Meanwhile, Velvia 50, a Fuji film, is higher in cost than all the other E6 films.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

It's all a matter of priorities. Most of us can structure our income accordingly. If it takes eating out one less time a week in order to buy 5 rolls of film, we'll do it.

I used to work at McKee Bakery while going through college. They are the Little Debbie folks. I met and spoke with Mr. O.D. McKee, the founder, one day and he explained to me what his business philosophy was. He said, when times get tough people don't stop eating cookies, they just switch to less expensive ones and those are his. So he had a business model that worked in good times and bad.

That's where the Kentmere's of the world come in.

The neighborhood cost for a waffle cone ice cream went from around $5 to over $7. I've cut back to my doctor's delight.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Meanwhile, Velvia 50, a Fuji film, is higher in cost than all the other E6 films.

Depends on the location. In Europe, it's as expensive as Ektachrome 100. After the price hike, E100 will be more expensive.

 

[removedacct1]

These discussions are always amusing. It happens pretty much every year - one of the film manufacturers (and bear in mind, there are VERY few of these, worldwide) announces a price increase, and then the forums get all sore and fussy about it and direct their hostility towards the manufacturer of their favorite, darling films.
Then, a few weeks or months later, one of the OTHER manufacturers announces THEIR price hike, and the villagers storm the castle with pitchforks all over again, aiming their ire and the other company. Its all too predictable.

I get it - nobody wants to see film get so expensive that it's priced out of reach. I've set personal price limits on the materials I use and once prices exceed that upper limit, I will choose something else. (I won't pay more than $10 per roll of 120 film, and many films are at or beyond that price now. I've been using 8x10 sheets of FP4 - its my absolute favorite film - but once it exceeds $200 for a box of 25, I am not buying it anymore) But the complaining and moaning and angry "Kodak can drop dead for all I care" is pointless. We could easily be in a position where there are NO MORE film manufacturers. Then you'd have something to b*tch about.

Be glad you can buy film at all.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

If everyone making film and distributing film has to pay more for all the things and services that they have to buy - their input and output costs - their prices will have to be increased.
Different manufacturers will be visited with slightly different input and output costs, and those costs will also vary with geography and the markets they trade into, as well as the characteristics of their products (e.g. colour vs. black and white) so changes will vary.

Differences in the exchange rate of currencies among countries also make a big difference in film and everything else.

I'm seeing it with my trip to London. I already reserved a room. They're charging me naturally based on the British pound. The dollar has been devaluing against the Pound. So by the time I get to England, and pay for the room then, I'll wind up paying a lot more when the charge company charges my account in American dollars based on the value of the higher pound against my dollars. So the trip will cost more than anticipated. Of course, that means Ilford film costs me more in America but Kodak film costs Europeans less.

Last June, I bought Velvia 50 film directly from Japan. I was charged roughly $165 in Yen at the time. Today, at the same cost charged in Yen, I would have to pay $193 in American dollars to buy the same amount of Velvia. That's a 17% increase with no change in the manufacturer's charges. All because the American dollar vs. the Japanese Yen exchange rate has been decreasing.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I just bought some Kentmere 100 in 120.... I'm not really keen on larger grain in 35mm so i tend to use TMax400 in that format if i need a fast film.
As well, with the high cost of enlarging paper, inexpensive, low qc film doesn't seem like a great deal to me....

Why not Tmax 100 of you shoot Tmax 400?

 

[JPD]

Nice. People will not be able to afford Kodak films anymore. And that's a way to keep Kodak film production in business?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I'm going to continue buying/hoarding film, and keeping in my freezer. I lightly started doing this when Ilford went through a spot of bother many years ago, and it really kicked off when Fujifilm discontinued Acros I. I'll keep up this practice until I retire in a year and a bit... then it's penny pinching for me.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Nice. People will not be able to afford Kodak films anymore. And that's a way to keep Kodak film production in business?

Kodak's hiring 300 more people to keep up with the demand. So things seem to be going well for them. Just like Tesla dropped prices on their cars because demand dropped, companies are very sensitive to these things. If demand for film drops, I'm sure prices will drop as well.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

...Do you really think executives at Ilford, Kodak, and Fuji get together over some sushi to fix the prices?

No, but do you think it is right that Kodak raises its film/paper prices when the price of silver hits a high? Do they think we're dumb enough to assume they only buy silver when the market is high? Wouldn't they buy in bulk and load up when the price was at a low point? Raising film prices at silver market peaks smacks of being nothing more than a money grab.

I acted with my wallet. I had moved to Ilford for paper back in the Gallerie days and stayed with Ilford using Multigrade FB, but started using HP5, mixing my own developer & fixer, and haven't bought a Kodak product in over 10 years.

Did the same thing this summer, buying an electric car. No more of my money will feed record profits built on phantom reasons. We live in BC (Canada) where water generated electricity is comparatively cheap and gasoline prices are high, so it was time.

 

[miha]

It's good if alternatives exist, so one can switch, but sometimes they don't. I'm left with Ektar / Portra in 4x5 at 8 EUR per sheet (!!) I'm not sure for how long I'm able to persuade myself I still need to shoot colour in LF.

 

[JPD]

Kodak's hiring 300 more people to keep up with the demand. So things seem to be going well for them. Just like Tesla dropped prices on their cars because demand dropped, companies are very sensitive to these things. If demand for film drops, I'm sure prices will drop as well.

Perhaps, but $85 for a 5-pack Tmax 100 in 120 is already very expensive. A 40% increase would mean $120 for the same 5-pack, and while "120" sounds cool and fitting, it's simply too much.

 

[albireo]

I get it - nobody wants to see film get so expensive that it's priced out of reach. I've set personal price limits on the materials I use and once prices exceed that upper limit, I will choose something else. (I won't pay more than $10 per roll of 120 film, and many films are at or beyond that price now. I've been using 8x10 sheets of FP4 - its my absolute favorite film - but once it exceeds $200 for a box of 25, I am not buying it anymore) But the complaining and moaning and angry "Kodak can drop dead for all I care" is pointless.

Bitching about forum users bitching about a film price increase. Meta-bitching essentially. Priceless.