Kodak Price Increase and Hiring Spree 2023: What Do You Want Kodak to Focus on Moving Forward?

DREW WILEY · Feb 3, 2023

1kgC - I suspect Fuji settled on CAii RC as their cut sheet product as middle-of-the-road in terms of what they thought, correctly or not, would be most appropriate for small-volume traditional users - affordable at retail pricing, not too contrasty, but not too little contrast either. It's a decent sort of Ford/Chevy paper, and now available in three different sheens. Last year I bought a fresh 30-inch wide roll of Fujiflex, and that is, er, more of their Ferrari RA4 medium !!!, but the true polyester-based high gloss and bolder contrast isn't appropriate for every subject, but when it is, wow! Expensive. So now I need to find something tamed down a little for other kinds of images, but hopefully with a little better hue gamut than their cut sheet line. I fine tune the contrast, up or down, with supplemental unsharp masking if needed, so that gives me a real degree of flexibility most darkroom printers don't have unless they do the same. It's fun stuff, and superb quality prints can indeed be obtained in an all-optical traditional workroom workflow.

But it's an absolute shame that so many fine color enlargers literally went to dumps back when the big labs were switching mainly over to digital printing, due to lack of people interested in taking them, even for free.

Roger Cole · Feb 4, 2023

I gave up on catching up somewhere on page 5 so my wishes:

E400
E100VS
RA4 paper in standard cut sheet sizes
Plus-X

I’m about that order of preference.

Oh, pre-2007 Tri-X but that’s probably even less likely than Pan-X. I’d really not have much use for Pan-X anyway but I know some (clearly) would.

Roger Cole · Feb 4, 2023

Price sheet film more in line with competitors. Kodak has priced themselves out of my using their B&W sheet film when I get just as good results with Ilford for much less money.

Color sheet film is just insane and I’m not interested at today’s prices. 120 in a roll film back if I want movements does just fine.

Radost · Feb 7, 2023

Agulliver said:
On cassettes, recycling and bulk loading. I've only sent out a reloadable cassette for lab processing on three occasions, to three different labs, and they all handed (or posted) me the cassette back because I requested they do so. I guess some labs wouldn't want the hassle but it seems, in England at least, to be OK to ask for a cassette to be returned.

As for recycling, I guess the metal 135 cassettes at least do not contribute to plastic pollution, but it would be preferable that they didn't enter the waste system for landfill. Not sure what can be done there. How damaging to the environment are they actually, and what is the most responsible way to dispose of them? And given that industry is probably dumping gazillions of tons of waste metal, is it significant?

As for bulk loading. I do it for B&W and would consider for colour if the price was right. I am sure a lot of us bulk load. Equally I am sure that 90% of film users don't, never have and never intend to. The majority of those buying film aren't shooting a hundred (or a thousand) rolls a year to make it worthwhile bulk loading. Easing prices on bulk film just won't be a priority for E-K or K-A.

The existing E-K/K-A alliance seems strange but it functions. Might another solution eventually function better and more efficiently? Possibly, but setting it up would be prohibitively expensive and would still have to take into account all the legal obligations placed on K-A regarding the pension funds etc. It would seem illogical to mess with that part of the infrastructure. And if they did decide to rebuild their distribution network and it went wrong.....bye bye Kodak film.

What cassettes do you use?
I just got a light leak From an old GOLD 400 cassette.
I see people report the plastic once shed and scratch films.

Agulliver · Feb 8, 2023

Radost said:
What cassettes do you use?
I just got a light leak From an old GOLD 400 cassette.
I see people report the plastic once shed and scratch films.

Plastic reusable cassettes. I've got three different kinds....a couple I acquired in the mid 80s when a school teacher used to sell hand rolled film to students cheaper than the shop bought film. I accidentally kept a couple of cassettes, one still has "Tri-X" in his handwriting on it. I should consider returning it even after all these years!

Then my first bulk loader came with a lot of well made plastic cassettes likely from a similar era (80s or early 90s)

And finally I received a gift of some modern plastic cassettes in 2018. They're not as good as the older ones but with careful use they don't leak light or scratch the film.

They work for me. I know some users strongly prefer to reuse metal Kodak or Ilford cassettes

adamlugi · Feb 15, 2023

Ekrachrome 400

BHuij · Feb 15, 2023

There's nothing really new I need to see out of Kodak. I will continue to happily buy Ektachrome 100 in all formats, HC-110 every 6 years when I run out, and the occasional roll of Gold 200 for my half frame or ProImage/Ektar 100 for a walk in the woods. Almost everything else I shoot comes from Ilford. I just hope Kodak manages to get themselves positioned to serve a larger market and keep prices more static over the long term.

armadsen · Feb 15, 2023

I wish Kodak would sell more stocks in bulk rolls, most especially color negative (C41).

faberryman · Feb 15, 2023

armadsen said:
I wish Kodak would sell more stocks in bulk rolls, most especially color negative (C41).

Kodak can't make enough color negative film to satisfy the demand for preloaded cassettes. It is unlikely that they are going to begin offering color negative film in bulk rolld, as it is a lower profit margin product. Of course, things may change, so never say never.

MattKing · Feb 15, 2023

faberryman said:
Kodak can't make enough color negative film to satisfy the demand for preloaded cassettes. It is unlikely that they are going to begin offering color negative film in bulk rolld, as it is a lower profit margin product. Of course, things may change, so never say never.

Kodak actually can make more film than they do. They just can't get it into as many 35mm cassettes as they can sell.
That isn't the reason that there isn't more bulk film. The reason is that the bulk film production line is incredibly slow and manual and inefficient and expensive to operate - it was actually designed to service the school photography market about 70 years or so ago. In comparison, the existing 35mm cassette manufacturing lines are incredibly fast, automated, efficient and inexpensive (on a per roll basis) to operate. It is just that they didn't leave enough of them around, when they did their major downsizing.

Radost · Feb 15, 2023

armadsen said:
I wish Kodak would sell more stocks in bulk rolls, most especially color negative (C41).

Second .
100’ cine rolls widely available again will be cool

Don_ih · Feb 15, 2023

MattKing said:
The reason is that the bulk film production line is incredibly slow and manual and inefficient and expensive to operate

If there was sufficient demand, they would make that work.
There's not sufficient demand.

Anon Ymous · Feb 15, 2023

armadsen said:
I wish Kodak would sell more stocks in bulk rolls, most especially color negative (C41).

Oh, I'd fancy some ColorPlus 200 in 100' bulk rolls, it has a very nice old time look. Not interested in Portras. Of course, it's never going to happen. Might not even be much cheaper anyway...

MattKing · Feb 15, 2023

Don Heisz said:
If there was sufficient demand, they would make that work.
There's not sufficient demand.

And if my information is correct, the definition of "sufficient demand" would be a number in the same range as what was being produced when school photographers using 35mm film in cameras that took 100 foot magazines were common.
As I understand it, the bulk film we are used to seeing from Kodak was just a fortunate offshoot of that very, very large market.
Other producers, with far smaller volumes (back then) could afford to create production systems attuned to much smaller volumes than those that Kodak was set up for. Those other producers had higher per unit costs - back then.

George Mann · Feb 15, 2023

We need to put pressure on Kodak to provide 100 foot bulk rolls of color film. I would buy it if the price wasn't exorbitant.

Radost · Feb 15, 2023

George Mann said:
We need to put pressure on Kodak to provide 100 foot bulk rolls of color film. I would buy it if the price wasn't exorbitant.

Second.

Alan Edward Klein · Feb 16, 2023

MattKing said:
Kodak actually can make more film than they do. They just can't get it into as many 35mm cassettes as they can sell.
That isn't the reason that there isn't more bulk film. The reason is that the bulk film production line is incredibly slow and manual and inefficient and expensive to operate - it was actually designed to service the school photography market about 70 years or so ago. In comparison, the existing 35mm cassette manufacturing lines are incredibly fast, automated, efficient and inexpensive (on a per roll basis) to operate. It is just that they didn't leave enough of them around, when they did their major downsizing.

Weren't there also 200 shot rolls in 35mm? I seem to remember photographers who would service vacation spas and hotels who would circulate at dinner, the tennis courts, and pools, etc. shooting all the guests like they do today on cruise ships with digital cameras.

MattKing · Feb 16, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
Weren't there also 200 shot rolls in 35mm? I seem to remember photographers who would service vacation spas and hotels who would circulate at dinner, the tennis courts, and pools, etc. shooting all the guests like they do today on cruise ships with digital cameras.

250 shot rolls, I think.
But those rolls may have been manually re-spooled from larger ones by the users.

Mike Lopez · Feb 16, 2023

MattKing said:
250 shot rolls, I think.
But those rolls may have been manually re-spooled from larger ones by the users.

Several of the major camera manufacturers made 250-exposure backs (which appear to be plentiful on eBay, etc.). The entire back would need to be swapped onto the body, as you'd never get 250 frames into a cartridge that could fit into the conventional film chamber.

Alan Edward Klein · Feb 16, 2023

Apparently there was a 750 shot power winder as well as 250.

Motor Drive Units for Nikon F2 Models

soysos · Feb 16, 2023

I’d like to see them bring back EIR and Kodachrome, but that’s probably a pipe dream. Kodak gold in 4x5 and bull 35mm shouldn’t be too much to ask though.

soysos · Feb 16, 2023

George Mann said:
We need to put pressure on Kodak to provide 100 foot bulk rolls of color film. I would buy it if the price wasn't exorbitant.

Vision 3 is very reasonable, but they only sell it in 400’ and 1000’ rolls. There are some retailers repackaging 100’ rolls, but they’re a little more expensive. $320 for 400’ or $160 for repackaged 100’, really the most economical way to shoot color. As long as you don’t mind that remjet.

Hubigpielover · Feb 16, 2023

MultiFormat Shooter said:
I agree! I would absolutely LOVE it if Kodak did this; I really enjoy infrared (especially color infrared) photography, of all types of subjects. Unfortunately, I also agree that there is very little (or less) chance of it happening. I would be happy if they "just" brought-out an ISO 400 Ektachome.

I want Ektachrome p1600 back.

Alan Edward Klein · Feb 16, 2023

soysos said:
Vision 3 is very reasonable, but they only sell it in 400’ and 1000’ rolls. There are some retailers repackaging 100’ rolls, but they’re a little more expensive. $320 for 400’ or $160 for repackaged 100’, really the most economical way to shoot color. As long as you don’t mind that remjet.

Isn't Vision 3 mainly for movies? Why would you use it for stills especially because of the remjet problem?

MattKing · Feb 16, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
Isn't Vision 3 mainly for movies? Why would you use it for stills especially because of the remjet problem?

They use it for still photos because they can actually get it, and they can get it slightly cheaper.
The current Cinestill stuff comes from master rolls that Cinestill has contracted for from Eastman Kodak which omit the remjet.
The film is designed for a different process - ECN-2 - is lower in contrast than the C-41 still film that we are used to and, as such was originally intended for contact printing on to projection stock, rather than printing on to RA-r colour photographic paper.
When developed in C-41, colour and contrast will be different than the film was designed for, and there will be colour crossovers that don't show up when developed in ECN-2.

Kodak Price Increase and Hiring Spree 2023: What Do You Want Kodak to Focus on Moving Forward?

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