Kodak Price Increase and Hiring Spree 2023: What Do You Want Kodak to Focus on Moving Forward?

[removedacct1]

I'm betting there are EK employees reading this shit and laughing their asses off.

 

[koraks]

I'm betting there are EK employees reading this shit and laughing their asses off.

You bet.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I'm betting there are EK employees reading this shit and laughing their asses off.

I agree. Without information how can they easily change to cheaper film? Without information how could one know that they are gouging or barely getting by. Without information, it is all speculation. Speculation will almost always lead to the wrong conclusions. As a former Kodak employee, I cannot drink anything when I read this and other threads, because whatever I am drinking will go out my nose.

 

[braxus]

Panatomic-X did contain Cadmium. Kodak didn't bother to reformulate Pan-X without Cadmium, instead introducing faster, finer, T-grained films. So, bye bye Pan-X.

Are you sure? A Kodak guy a while back posted they may have removed it long before it was discontinued. Also what is stopping Kodak from reformulating the emulsion to not use Cadmium? They did it with other films.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I agree. Without information how can they easily change to cheaper film? Without information how could one know that they are gouging or barely getting by. Without information, it is all speculation. Speculation will almost always lead to the wrong conclusions. As a former Kodak employee, I cannot drink anything when I read this and other threads, because whatever I am drinking will go out my nose.

What'd do for them?

 

[Agulliver]

You can't raise prices to hire employees.

Of course you can. Companies frequently do just this. Especially those with small profit margins.

 

[MattKing]

Are you sure? A Kodak guy a while back posted they may have removed it long before it was discontinued. Also what is stopping Kodak from reformulating the emulsion to not use Cadmium? They did it with other films.

T-Max 100 is the reason that you won't see Panatomic-X again, because it does all the things that 99.9% of the users wanted from Panatomic-X, it does them all or better, and it does other things as well.

 

[removedacct1]

T-Max 100 is the reason that you won't see Panatomic-X again, because it does all the things that 99.9% of the users wanted from Panatomic-X, it does them all or better, and it does other things as well.

Exactly. There's no reason to remake Pan-X. None whatsoever.

 

[faberryman]

Exactly. There's no reason to remake Pan-X. None whatsoever.

For those of you who would like Kodak to reintroduce Pan-X, what film are you currently using in the place of Pan-X, and what are such film's deficiencies compared to Pan-X? If it became available, how many rolls of Pan-X would you buy a year?

 

[Craig]

For the reasons I stated. Demand exists at a current price point and you can't expect that to remain the case if the price is raised.

Not necessarily true of everything. When British Airways started flying Concorde it wasn't that much more expensive than a first class ticket and they had trouble filling the plane. Later they doubled the ticket price and demand more than doubled - it was now seen as an exclusive, premium product that was "worth" what was being charged. That exclusivity in turn created more demand.

Value can be perception as much as anything

 

[removedacct1]

Not necessarily true of everything. When British Airways started flying Concorde it wasn't that much more expensive than a first class ticket and they had trouble filling the plane. Later they doubled the ticket price and demand more than doubled - it was now seen as an exclusive, premium product that was "worth" what was being charged. That exclusivity in turn created more demand.

Value can be perception as much as anything

Quick - tell the folks at Eastman Kodak they can change $24 per roll of Panatomic-X if they reintroduce it!!

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Not necessarily true of everything. When British Airways started flying Concorde it wasn't that much more expensive than a first class ticket and they had trouble filling the plane. Later they doubled the ticket price and demand more than doubled - it was now seen as an exclusive, premium product that was "worth" what was being charged. That exclusivity in turn created more demand.

Value can be perception as much as anything

Leica Airlines.

 

[Craig]

Leica Airlines.

Although a Leica couldn't get me from New York to London in under 3 hours!

 

[Don_ih]

When British Airways started flying Concorde

Oddly enough, I can't find any reference to low-cost fares on the Concorde from when it first started commercial routes in 1976. It started at a high price and incrementally got more expensive as the years passed. See here.

Of course you can [raise prices to hire employees]. Companies frequently do just this. Especially those with small profit margins.

Such as? What product continues to sell and be produced in a massive way once it has been priced out of affordability? A necessity - such as housing. Film is about as necessary as egg whites in a carton.

 

[faberryman]

Oddly enough, I can't find any reference to low-cost fares on the Concorde from when it first started commercial routes in 1976. It started at a high price and incrementally got more expensive as the years passed. See here.

As the late Queen said: "Recollections may vary."

Aside from issues of price and demand, that crash in Paris killing all 109 people onboard didn't help. It sort of tarnished the perception of the Concorde as a luxury good.

 

[Craig]

Oddly enough, I can't find any reference to low-cost fares on the Concorde from when it first started commercial routes in 1976. It started at a high price and incrementally got more expensive as the years passed. See here.

The information came from someone who worked at BA at the time. The fare increase was circa 1982. Most of the passengers at the time were "OPM's" - Other People's Money, such as bankers and business people who didn't pay for their ticket personally. BA did a survey of their passengers and asked what they thought a ticket cost. That average was about double what a ticket really cost, so BA raised prices in line with the perception.

 

[George Mann]

Make a color film called Kodachrome, C-41 or E6.

It has to be a transparency!

 

[George Mann]

Ditch the color film; digital color is here to stay.

Keep producing Ektachrome.

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

Realistically, I'd like this Alaris situation to go end. It seems like they might have some bean-counter reasons why products that are in production currently are simply only available in ways that make the more expensive or difficult to get. I see no reason why color film can't be sold in bulk, I see no reason why RA4 paper can't be cut to popular darkroom sizes.

Secondarily, I want them to figure out this Sino Promise disaster. If you are the company that created the line of chemistry called Flexicolor, would you say it's a good thing that labs all over the world have had to abandon your products because they can't get freaking Kodak C41 chemistry???

I was all Kodak for chems at least in C41 and B&W, but due to simple availability I switched to Fuji and honestly, I prefer it. Easier to mix and work with. Fuji helped me work out Bleach regeneration and now I'm saving bundles of cash on the most expensive chem in the C41 line up.

Lastly, and related to the bulk roll thing, I think Kodak could get serious about packaging waste. A national program to reclaim 35mm cassettes and 120 spools, plus plastic 35mm packaging would be a great thing. Plus most photographers do not need a factory spooled roll of 36 exposure Kodak Gold. There are ways to make bulk go more mainstream with artists and enthusiasts. The people who need factory scaled film will buy it.

 

[MattKing]

Realistically, I'd like this Alaris situation to go end.

Eastman Kodak has about 1,100 employees - almost all in Rochester.
Kodak Alaris has about 1,500 distributed all around the world, doing the distribution work they do.
Eastman Kodak would have to double its payroll and add a large amount of location costs to do what Kodak Alaris does - there isn't enough money to do that.

 

[BrianShaw]

Eastman Kodak has about 1,100 employees - almost all in Rochester.
Kodak Alaris has about 1,500 distributed all around the world, doing the distribution work they do.
Eastman Kodak would have to double its payroll and add a large amount of location costs to do what Kodak Alaris does - there isn't enough money to do that.

Are the Kodak Alaris employees working on a volunteer basis? They cost in terms of payroll and facilities. I know as well as you know that the situation is not likely to change... but, hypothetically speaking, if the payroll and facilities costs associated with KAlaris didn't exist (were transferred) then it might be financially possible for EK to take on the distribtuion role. I think there's another rationale taht might need to be considered. "It just won't happpen" is probably good enough, though.

 

[MattKing]

The international nature of Kodak Alaris is the biggest reason that "it just won't happen". It is expensive to operate that sort of business, and Eastman Kodak is mostly a non-photographic commercial printing support business that has an interesting film manufacturing division. Eastman Kodak lacks the capital to "take over the world" again.

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

The international nature of Kodak Alaris is the biggest reason that "it just won't happen". It is expensive to operate that sort of business, and Eastman Kodak is mostly a non-photographic commercial printing support business that has an interesting film manufacturing division. Eastman Kodak lacks the capital to "take over the world" again.

Eh I don't really get it. KA isn't doing this for charity, they're making money. If they absorbed part of KA and re-built other systems there is no reason why they too can't make money on it. That's another thing that should change. The dealer network sucks for consumers, sucks for vendors. It works really well for the small number of shops large enough to want to take on that roll but look at the 120 Gold fiasco. A shop like mine should be able to call up KA or EK, whomever, and say I want to order XYZ products to sell, and they get shipped. Right now we have to go to Roberts, Freestyle, etc. The prices are barely cheaper than what you see listed to consumers...which is usually about what B&H is charging. You have a couple film labs just selling at wholesale costs to consumers because it keeps them shooting film and sending it in to those labs.

I don't really buy that this 'can't be done'. Adox basically owns their distributor but I'm able to get product from them. Ilford is easy to deal with on this. I mean I believe you that it probably won't happen, but I still think it should.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Realistically, I'd like this Alaris situation to go end. It seems like they might have some bean-counter reasons why products that are in production currently are simply only available in ways that make the more expensive or difficult to get. I see no reason why color film can't be sold in bulk, I see no reason why RA4 paper can't be cut to popular darkroom sizes.

Secondarily, I want them to figure out this Sino Promise disaster. If you are the company that created the line of chemistry called Flexicolor, would you say it's a good thing that labs all over the world have had to abandon your products because they can't get freaking Kodak C41 chemistry???

I was all Kodak for chems at least in C41 and B&W, but due to simple availability I switched to Fuji and honestly, I prefer it. Easier to mix and work with. Fuji helped me work out Bleach regeneration and now I'm saving bundles of cash on the most expensive chem in the C41 line up.

Lastly, and related to the bulk roll thing, I think Kodak could get serious about packaging waste. A national program to reclaim 35mm cassettes and 120 spools, plus plastic 35mm packaging would be a great thing. Plus most photographers do not need a factory spooled roll of 36 exposure Kodak Gold. There are ways to make bulk go more mainstream with artists and enthusiasts. The people who need factory scaled film will buy it.

I had done bulk loading for many years and that solution will not work for most people for 35mm and virtually no one for 120 film. Calling for bulk film is basically stating that bulk loading will satisfy very few and benefit almost no one.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Are the Kodak Alaris employees working on a volunteer basis? They cost in terms of payroll and facilities. I know as well as you know that the situation is not likely to change... but, hypothetically speaking, if the payroll and facilities costs associated with KAlaris didn't exist (were transferred) then it might be financially possible for EK to take on the distribtuion role. I think there's another rationale taht might need to be considered. "It just won't happpen" is probably good enough, though.

I can't imagine why Alaris would want to vote to turn over distribution to Eastman Kodak and 1500 Alaris employees lose their jobs which currently are locked in due to the bankruptcy provision between the two companies. Why would Eastman Kodak want the headache of distribution in any case? Right now they sit dumb, fat, and happy churning out emulsions in Rochester New York letting Alaris spend money on airfares.