One would hope that Eastman would pass along to Alaris their lower costs to manufacture as well if that is occurring. But as we've discussed before, it's nearly impossible to decipher the profit margins each company uses.
The greater demand may actually have a greater effect on lowering distribution costs than it does on manufacturing costs. And it is distribution costs that have the big effect on how much KA's pricing runs independent from the factors that influence EK's pricing.
FWIW, my understanding is that the cost uncertainties that EK was experiencing have stabilized, but that doesn't mean that their costs have gone down.
One would hope that Eastman would pass along to Alaris their lower costs to manufacture as well if that is occurring. But as we've discussed before, it's nearly impossible to decipher the profit margins each company uses.
In general I agree that greater demand raises prices. However, it's possible that with greater demand, the price to manufacturer can go down substantially and those savings can be passed along.
One would hope that Eastman would pass along to Alaris their lower costs to manufacture as well if that is occurring. But as we've discussed before, it's nearly impossible to decipher the profit margins each company uses.
On the other hand, we have Lomography openly stating that demand for 120 was very low at current prices.
Law of supply and demand is built on set of assumptions. One of them is that manufacturers and customers behave in rational manner. Rational manufacturer would NOT lower the price when demand goes up, unless it can also increase supply to more than offset the lost profit, because of lower price, by increased quantity.
Greater demand can lower the price ONLY if supply can increase as well. There is no rational reason for manufacturer to lower the price when it can sell all its product at current price point and can't increase production.
@Agulliver said that Kodak can't produce enough 120 film. Mr. Church said that now is a good time to lower the price, at the same time denying that there is any problem they can see on the demand side for 120 film.
On the other hand, we have Lomography openly stating that demand for 120 was very low at current prices.
I can post links with snapshots of online stores showing supply of Kodak 120 film all day long. For example, there are 10 snapshots of FotoImpex store saved in the Wayback Machine for years '22 and '23. Only on one date there is one Kodak 120 film out of stock. Every other Kodak 120 film (BW, C-41 or E-6) on ever other saved date was in stock in online and their walk-in store. I encourage you to do the same for Lomography store. Or any other semi-serious online store.
Marketing PR and reality clearly don't agree. Either reality or marketing is wrong.
No, it's not that hard. I've presented some numbers in that thread (every single one can be verified by public financial statement) that can give you a not so rough picture. But some just need to believe that Eastman Kodak has Alaris squeezed on a 0,5% margin although that is backed by absolutely nothing (data or even common sense).
So, here we are, Kodak Alaris earning nothing on Kodak film can drop their price by 35% and 120 film was flying off the shelves at those prices...
The 100 and 400 perform rather like 80s or early 90s pre-Gold Kodacolor film. Which they are widely suspected of being. The colours are more neutral and don't "pop" like the more saturated Gold. A dull day looks dull, which suits me. …
Like ColorPlus in 35mm…
No lab tests and no data sheets and not even any good rumor. Just practical experience , as you write. I recall one time I asked Ron Mowrey about it and his reply was, “I’d have to kill you if I told you.” I assume that he was joking. But it really might be that Top Secret.Indeed so. Which is alleged to be the reason why there's no Lomography branded 200ISO CN film.
I don't think anyone has done exhaustive lab tests to prove that the Lomography films and Color Plus are identical or almost identical to early 90s Kodacolor....but they behave that way in normal use.
No lab tests and no data sheets and not even any good rumor. Just practical experience , as you write. I recall one time I asked Ron Mowrey about it and his reply was, “I’d have to kill you if I told you.” I assume that he was joking. But it really might be that Top Secret.
Who knows what's really going on? In this case, we have a guy at Alaris who doesn't really know what's going on at Eastman making claims
If this was the primary driver behind these price drops, we'd see that development in 135 format too which is much bigger than 120.
At the moment this is strictly a response to a low demand in 120 at current price point. Not to say that Alaris doesn't have a lot of room for price adjustment should demand in 135 get weaker or new supply of quality colour film emerges...
It may be notable that Color Plus, the "budget" C41 film...still experiences issues in supply not meeting demand. If "a new supplier" is able to offer a similar product, that could free up Kodak to concentrate more on gold, Ultramax and the pro films which will further stabilise supply and hopefully result in price drops for 35mm.
Yes, I've never understood the ColorPlus 200 obsession. It's the worst colour film you could shoot and more expensive than Gold 200 which has been pretty much always in stock in one way or the other (24exp./36exp./1pack/3pack) for the last 6 months or so at dealers that have semi-decent traffic to bother with regular restocking.
I always thought that ColorPlus 200 shortage was because Kodak knows this sh*t should not be out there with Kodak name on it. It's worse than Lomo CN 100 for crying out loud... Seriously, I'd rather shoot Lomography Color '92 from Inoviscoat if I wanted something a bit different.
It's basically an 80s budget film, for good and bad.1. Some people, myself included, prefer the more neutral colour palette to Gold's more saturated colours. Gold was designed to make dull holday weather look sunny. I just find it overblows all the reds and makes actual reds look like brown. Just not to my tastes. YMMV. Clearly millions love it.
2. Color Plus has *always* been substantially cheaper than Gold in the UK at least. And it was when I was travelling around Spain just before the pandemic. It's the gateway film for film photography for a lot of people in great part because it is cheaper. If if has been more expensive than Gold in recent times where you live, that is because of the unavailability of Color Plus. That is not the usual status quo.
3. Colour film availability is a much longer term issue than the last six months. It goes back to 2016. By 2020 there was a backlog for Kodak alone of 30 million 135 films ordered. The single biggest product in that 30 million? Color Plus.
I don't know what you find so objectionable about Color Plus.
I don't know what you find so objectionable about Color Plus.
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