Kodak PolyMax II RC in Lith Print issue

[MateuszTelega]

Hi there,

I'm exploring lith printing and recently acquired a batch of Kodak Polymax II RC paper. This is my first experience with this paper. I developed it using Moersch Easy Lith (20+20+200OB) at the usual high temperature (35°C). The paper was overexposed by 2 stops.

Typically, this combination results in a development time of 3-15 minutes. However, this time it only took around 30 seconds for the entire print to turn completely black. Only the margins from the easel remained white. It's almost as if I had dropped an overexposed print into a normal developer. I've seen online that people have had success using this paper with lith developer. Does anyone have an idea of what I might be doing wrong? Should I adjust the proportions of the Easy Lith solution, or perhaps add Lith C or D?

Thanks for any help!

 

[Don_ih]

Was the paper sealed when you got it? Unsealed paper may have been exposed to light. Test by putting an unexposed strip in normal paper developer.

 

[MateuszTelega]

Was the paper sealed when you got it? Unsealed paper may have been exposed to light. Test by putting an unexposed strip in normal paper developer.

Yes it was sealed. There is also a white margin where the easel was holding the paper.

 

[laser]

This is an Incorporated Developer Paper (that is what the II means) meaning it has hydroquinone (75 mg/ft2) in the emulsion. The HQ plays no role in exposure but is activated in a activator or developer.


The paper is designed for:

1. Activator processing (high pH) 20C for about 20 seconds

2. Dektol Developer 1 minute at 20C


When it is put into the lith developer at 35C the HQ is activated and development starts. The increase in speed is from the lith dev high activity.

If the borders are white it means that the paper has low fog even in this extreme development treatment .

 

[MateuszTelega]

This is an Incorporated Developer Paper (that is what the II means) meaning it has hydroquinone (75 mg/ft2) in the emulsion. The HQ plays no role in exposure but is activated in a activator or developer.


The paper is designed for:

1. Activator processing (high pH) 20C for about 20 seconds

2. Dektol Developer 1 minute at 20C


When it is put into the lith developer at 35C the HQ is activated and development starts. The increase in speed is from the lith dev high activity.

If the borders are white it means that the paper has low fog even in this extreme development treatment .

Thank you for a detailed explanation. As far as I understand, paper with incorporated developers in the emulsion are not suitable for lith development. Does it mean I saw pictures labeled as "Polymax in lith dev" that could be a different variant of this paper, presumably I instead of II?

 

[koraks]

Does anyone have an idea of what I might be doing wrong?

Overexposing the paper, most likely. Try exposing a few stops less.

As far as I understand, paper with incorporated developers in the emulsion are not suitable for lith development.

As long as it's only hydroquinone, I can still see it work.
If you're concerned about the incorporated developer, try exposing a sheet, then rinsing it in water a couple of times, and then developing it in a lith developer of your choice. The repeated rinsing should get rid of (most of) the incorporated hydroquinone.

An alterantive approach is to brew a lith developer without hydroquinone and using that on the paper. This means essentially only an activator (e.g. sodium carbonate) and some restrainer (potassium bromide). It's worth a try. Don't pre-rinse the paper; expose and go directly into this developerless-developer.

 

[MateuszTelega]

Overexposing the paper, most likely. Try exposing a few stops less.



As long as it's only hydroquinone, I can still see it work.
If you're concerned about the incorporated developer, try exposing a sheet, then rinsing it in water a couple of times, and then developing it in a lith developer of your choice. The repeated rinsing should get rid of (most of) the incorporated hydroquinone.

An alterantive approach is to brew a lith developer without hydroquinone and using that on the paper. This means essentially only an activator (e.g. sodium carbonate) and some restrainer (potassium bromide). It's worth a try. Don't pre-rinse the paper; expose and go directly into this developerless-developer.

Thank you for the ideas. I'll try them in the next darkroom session and report how it went. I guess I'm not the only one trying to utilize this kind of paper for lith development. If anyone else has already tried working with Kodak Polymax II RC in this field, I'd appreciate it if you could shed some light on this topic.

 

[removedacct3]

You can use this paper for lith printing. I have used it myself and got good results and another lith printer who uses this paper is a German fellow called Ludwig Römer. This is one of his latest lith prints on Polymax II RC.

 

[MateuszTelega]

You can use this paper for lith printing. I have used it myself and got good results and another lith printer who uses this paper is a German fellow called Ludwig Römer. This is one of his latest lith prints on Polymax II RC.

That's a great news. Did you ecountered same problem as mine described in the original post? If yes, how did you solved it? If not, what kind of lith dev were you using?

 

[removedacct3]

Yes, I did.

While testing my batch I made several prints using different exposures. At the time I was just playing around with this new to my paper and I never recorded the exposure settings but I do remember that the general 'overexpose by 2 stops or more' does not work for this paper. I do not know if it is relevant, but my batch is heavily fogged. Absolutely unsuitable for regular printing.

When those prints were dry I decided to make a collage of them.

Have a look for yourself. The developer used was either ANSCO 70, ANSCO 79B or Moersch SE5. Unfortunately I can not give any more details. As I said, I was just fooling around to get a feel for this paper.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/196115272@N03/53372842670