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Kodak out of stock in Tokyo

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StoneNYC

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Anyone who doesn't know about Ilford (or the other options) isn't a committed film shooter.

*shakes head*

The point is people kept telling me they stopped making film BACK THEN and not to bother, it was only by chance that I was driving by the photo store and said "I should check with them" and now I AM a dedicated film shooter, but if my path were even slightly delayed, I might never have been.

This is the story with many new shooters... And to be frank, a lot of you guys are dying off... If there isn't new blood to fuel the system, then film itself will die off...

It's not just about the current shooters who know about film, it's about all the potential out there waiting to be tapped upon...

If you can see that much, then you're destined to fail.
 

PKM-25

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One could reasonably assume a few things.

1. People do other things than make photographs. I am not sure I know anyone who makes images 24x7.

Well that's true, I just had to drop a deuce before I head out to a shoot.
 

Ricardo Miranda

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The point is people kept telling me they stopped making film BACK THEN and not to bother, it was only by chance that I was driving by the photo store and said "I should check with them" and now I AM a dedicated film shooter, but if my path were even slightly delayed, I might never have been.

You went to the core of the big problem: today's "John Smith" doesn't know what film is and if they see a cassette, they don't know what is it.
There has been already stories on other forums about 20 year old security staff looking at a compact camera and asking the owner where the screen is!
I have a story of what happened today...

But, first this:
I head out to a shoot.

I hope you had a great day shooting! Personally, I had a fantastic day.
I went out of my house at 9 o'clock and headed to a street market to do some street photography. There I had arranged with Noel (Xmas) to meet up. We had a full day shooting. I was using my Nikon EL2 and EM and used 2 and a half rolls.
We saw some 7 or 8 people carrying and using film cameras. We spoke to a nice tourist using a pristine FM. He told us the previous owner hadn't used it much, so he was using it now as it was just in such a nice condition and he loved using film.
On the afternoon I spotted a lady carrying an EOS 300. I had with me a roll of Lucky Super New 100 film and I gave it to her as a souvenir of her stay in London.
I normally carry an extra roll or 2 in case someone asks me about film availability and I just give them away, even because I have about 40 rolls of recently expired Lucky colour film and I don't like to use expired film. So I pass them on to those that want or show interest in film.

Now, can we all stop beating an old man (Kodak) when he is down and trying to get up, please? That isn't nice.
 

RattyMouse

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Now, can we all stop beating an old man (Kodak) when he is down and trying to get up, please? That isn't nice.

Nobody is posting anything in this thread, that I can see, that isn't nice.

If anyone has some complaints (such as me) is that it isn't clear that Kodak is TRYING to get up, at least with regards to film. First there has to be an effort and that just isn't there.
 

PKM-25

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Nobody is posting anything in this thread, that I can see, that isn't nice.

If anyone has some complaints (such as me) is that it isn't clear that Kodak is TRYING to get up, at least with regards to film. First there has to be an effort and that just isn't there.

So why keep complaining if you have moved to Ilford? This is what people don't get, you keep on and on about it as if that is going to make a difference and it is not. You have over 14,000 posts on dpreview as Rattymouse and Graham Hill, have been banned there several times and also post on Fred Miranda, Fujirumors, etc....this was all found out by a dedicated college photo educator who has since left APUG for good because he can't take it anymore, told his students to avoid this place like the plague.

The fact that many of us just get right along making photographs even with Kodak film does not make us stupid or pushovers, most don't go on and on and on like you, Ken and Stone do.

Most are not living their entire lives on the Internet, wasting precious days like some of you do.

It's often said a photograph is worth a thousand words...
It's not said that a thousand words is worth a photograph.
 
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RattyMouse

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So why keep complaining if you have moved to Ilford? This is what people don't get, you keep on and on about it as if that is going to make a difference and it is not. You have over 14,000 posts on dpreview as Rattymouse and Graham Hill, have been banned there several times and also post on Fred Miranda, Fujirumors, etc....this was all found out by a dedicated college photo educator who has since left APUG for good because he can't take it anymore, told his students to avoid this place like the plague.

The fact that many of us just get right along making photographs even with Kodak film does not make us stupid or pushovers, most don't go on and on and on like you, Ken and Stone do.

Most are not living their entire lives on the Internet, wasting precious days like some of you do.

It's often said a photograph is worth a thousand words...
It's not said that a thousand words is worth a photograph.

I live in a non English speaking country. 50% or more of my coworkers don't speak a word of English. So I use forums for a HUGE part of my need to communicate in my own language. I am sorry that this grossly offends you, but in fact, no one forces you to read my posts.

Where do I call ANYONE stupid? Oh yeah, I don't. So it's a non issue, invented by you and your "educator/NSA wannabe" to make a fictional point.

Why don't you avoid APUG like the plague the way your NSA "educator" recommends? You are clearly unhappy here. You are very very unhappy here.

I, on the other hand, come here because I enjoy APUG.
 

RattyMouse

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So why keep complaining if you have moved to Ilford? This is what people don't get, you keep on and on about it as if that is going to make a difference and it is not.

Another thing....Where do I state that my posts will make a difference with Kodak and its ineffective film marketing? Again, I never state that.

In fact, my posts will never make a difference about ANYTHING. So using your logic, I should just turn off my computer and do nothing.

Try living for 5.5 years in a land where you can't communicate with 99% of the people around you and see how often you use forums to get an outlet for your communication needs.
 

StoneNYC

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So why keep complaining if you have moved to Ilford? This is what people don't get, you keep on and on about it as if that is going to make a difference and it is not. You have over 14,000 posts on dpreview as Rattymouse and Graham Hill, have been banned there several times and also post on Fred Miranda, Fujirumors, etc....this was all found out by a dedicated college photo educator who has since left APUG for good because he can't take it anymore, told his students to avoid this place like the plague.

The fact that many of us just get right along making photographs even with Kodak film does not make us stupid or pushovers, most don't go on and on and on like you, Ken and Stone do.

Most are not living their entire lives on the Internet, wasting precious days like some of you do.

It's often said a photograph is worth a thousand words...
It's not said that a thousand words is worth a photograph.

Sad he left, that sucks.

But hey! I shoot too!

Should have been a sheet or two of 8x10 Delta100 today but because I just reorganized my case to take my 8x10 that used to take my 4x5 I forgot that the film now sits in a separate case! Drive there, set up the tripod, open the case, NO FILM! Arg!

First time using the camera and I don't get to use it!!! Lol

Had my trusty Yashica44LM with me, so took a frame to spite the situation and make the best of it.

So at least I'm not a total armchair photog :smile:

Try living for 5.5 years in a land where you can't communicate with 99% of the people around you and see how often you use forums to get an outlet for your communication needs.

Move?
 

RattyMouse

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That will come in time. Right now living in China is fantastic for my wife and kids, so I put up with it. Both my kids are 100% bilingual in Chinese. That's really great to see. I wish my tired old mind could pick it up like that.
 

StoneNYC

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That will come in time. Right now living in China is fantastic for my wife and kids, so I put up with it. Both my kids are 100% bilingual in Chinese. That's really great to see. I wish my tired old mind could pick it up like that.

If you spend as much time studying the language as you did on these forums, I bet you would have no trouble at all speaking... :wink:
 

RattyMouse

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If you spend as much time studying the language as you did on these forums, I bet you would have no trouble at all speaking... :wink:

Easy to say. After hearing Chinese 10 hours a day at work, the LAST thing I want to do is fill my free time with that. Not much time to be a father also when I'm tucked away in language class.
 

Photo Engineer

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Yep, when I lived in Japan and later on Okinawa, I spent a lot of my time studying Japanese, and I have never regretted it. I barely remember it now due to disuse, but we had a Japanese student at GEH last month and I was surprised at how fast it came back.

Go Ratty, go and learn Chinese. Learn the written form as well. Geez what a waste of time, ignoring the cultural potential not to mention your pride and the respect of your co-workers. You would be surprised at how much their attitude will change if you just say a small sentence in Chinese.

Now, I grew up learning French. When I finally got to France, I found a delightful experience awaited me there because the French prefer that you speak their language. My concierge would not give me my room key unless I asked for it in proper French. The French culture was a delight as was the food and wine.

So, go out - mingle, listen and learn.

PE
 

PKM-25

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I lived in Thailand and Cambodia for three months, I left my laptop in Bangkok with a trusted friend and got lost in photographing and living the culture of those places, I even learned some Thai and Khmer that was a lot of fun and very helpful when I was in some rough Khmer Rouge ridden areas.

I don't know that anyone is insisting that you learn a new language in place of what you prefer, but a lot of us are wondering why you constantly make jabs at Kodak, they truly make up the bulk of your posts at times. It can't feel good to do and I would think you want to feel good....right?

I just found out my wife's flight got delayed an hour, maybe I will go find some good early evening light for infrared.
 

RattyMouse

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Yep, when I lived in Japan and later on Okinawa, I spent a lot of my time studying Japanese, and I have never regretted it. I barely remember it now due to disuse, but we had a Japanese student at GEH last month and I was surprised at how fast it came back.

Go Ratty, go and learn Chinese. Learn the written form as well. Geez what a waste of time, ignoring the cultural potential not to mention your pride and the respect of your co-workers. You would be surprised at how much their attitude will change if you just say a small sentence in Chinese.

Now, I grew up learning French. When I finally got to France, I found a delightful experience awaited me there because the French prefer that you speak their language. My concierge would not give me my room key unless I asked for it in proper French. The French culture was a delight as was the food and wine.

So, go out - mingle, listen and learn.

PE

PE, I can speak quite a lot of Chinese, I'm just not fluent. My skills are finely tuned to get what I need out of most situations but once I am in something new, then it gets to be a struggle. My kids on the other hand, have learned enough to teach themselves when they are out of their comfort zone.
 

ME Super

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I used to be America-centric in my photography. My first camera was a Kodak Instamatic, and I shot Kodak slide film. I moved up to a Pentax ME Super eventually (there was a step or two between), and still shot Kodak film, this time color negative and had it made into slides - during that time it was Agfa. Today I still favor the Pentax line of cameras, but instead of my main film being Kodak it's now Fuji. The quality of Kodak's color negative film is second to none, but that's not the bulk of my shooting. Most of my shooting is slides for projection. For B&W I'm using Ilford HP5+ and Rollei IR400s. I was never happy with the Tri-X I shot, but I tried HP5+ from Ilford a couple years ago and loved it for B&W. So here's what I usually shoot from most to least:

  1. E6 (my main film type): Fuji, and Agfa (packaged by Wittner)
  2. B&W: Ilford HP5+, and Rollei IR400s (for Infrared)
  3. C-41: Any of the Kodak films - consumer, professional, they're all good, I just don't shoot much C-41.

As a parent myself, I know that it is important that you get to spend time with your family. I'm of German and English descent. I would love to have the time to learn more than just a few phrases in German, but my schedule does not permit it at this time. When the opportunity does present itself, however, it is definitely something I'd like to do sooner or later.
 

AgX

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If not I hope ilford or film Ferrania can buy the patents to Kodak's color films to keep color alive (same goes for Fuji if they stop making their E-6 film).

Those patents are -)public and -)expired. No need to buy them...

What you might mean is know-how not disclosed in patents.
 

AgX

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Well the problem is not patents but

IPR
and prototyping costs

When the peoples at Kodak's Harrow film coating factory were made redundant you lost all the process instructions to make the film on their machines, to coat, to cut, to finish the film.

If the factory still existed the process documentation and the experienced staff would be needed.

The documentation will be in land fill or recycling machines.

The bricks of the factory will be in a brick eating machine.

The people redundant.

The real estate coveted by little Brit cottages.

The process instructions for EK big machines that do cine and current film's would not necessarily be the same...

Doing a prototyping run at Harrow used a lump of Silver and a chunk of factory time - well expensive.

When Fotokemia went bust IR820 went too...


I've seen documentation to be burnt.

But more important is the knowledge lost with the people.
 

AgX

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X-Ray film is far less specialized than most of the other B&W products made under the Kodak label. It is intended to go from a freezer / fridge to exposure and then to be processed immediately in one basic process, not dozens of different ones. It is not tweaked for LIK or Reciprocity and so it is a very simple emulsion that just happens to be coated at a high weight on the support. Remember that labor is often more expensive than materials and I think you are looking at a case here where little labor is involved compared to making TriX or Portra.

PE

To the contrary: X-Ray films are far more specialized than current pictorial films.
 

Ken Nadvornick

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The fact that many of us just get right along making photographs even with Kodak film does not make us stupid or pushovers, most don't go on and on and on like you, Ken and Stone do.

Most are not living their entire lives on the Internet, wasting precious days like some of you do.

It's often said a photograph is worth a thousand words...
It's not said that a thousand words is worth a photograph.

Ironically, I only just saw this upon my return home from an entire day spent out photographing. Drove up to the Oso landslide area a bit north of me for a first-time in-person look. The same sights as seen by the president during his disaster visit. Staggering. Heart-stopping. Makes you want to cry.

As many may know, my formal education was in the Geological Sciences. I wanted to see this for myself. And make some photographs. I still can't believe the scope of what I just saw. And yes, everything I learned about landslides from my professors was right there in front of my eyes. I've just never seen one measuring miles across.

I then moved on to an already pre-scouted site outside of Granite Falls a little to the south. The format will be 8x10. The requirements are no people, heavy overcast, falling rain. I spent a couple of hours on site problem-solving, planning, marking positions, and taking notes. This included determining the trend of a canyon using my trusty Brunton pocket transit. (A fancy geologist's compass.) Knowing this I can figure out the sun angles in advance.

Going to need a street-festival-style awning to protect the camera from the rain. It's the Pacific Northwest here. So I already own one for just this purpose. Mid-September after schools restart looks good, both for reduced people and heavy overcast. There will be moderately substantial hiking involved to reach the location. Not easy with a Calumet C1 and accessories, but doable I think. I may need to draft an assistant.

I'm also toying with the idea of an artificial lighting component. Possibly multiple flashbulbs. Given this is a traditional landscape composition, artificial lighting is way outside the envelope. But if it does what I want it to, it would be a very interesting addition. I'm thinking a return visit to test with some frames using a smaller format may be called for, before wrestling all of the bulky 8x10 equipment out to this site.

After this and while returning home via a locals-only back way I unexpectedly ran across the remnants of what looked like a 1950s-era gas station out on a pre-Interstate Highway System rural road. A Union 76 station, pumps removed, building and signage still intact, but decaying. Interesting find. Out here things that aren't maintained usually get reclaimed by the temperate rainforest real quick.

Feeling a bit nostalgic (that was my late dad's preferred fill-er-up) I stopped and worked with this subject for about 45 minutes, or so. Just sat for awhile at first to absorb and think. Eventually made three negatives using my GF670.

Unavoidable moderate afternoon backlighting made discreet manual fill flash necessary. Done well, no one will notice and the image will look as it appears naked-eye. I'm usually pretty good with this technique as it make life under the enlarger so much easier. No great art happened here. Just a pleasant long-ago rememberance for me.

Once back home I then unloaded film from cameras and reloaded it into processing equipment. I configured the darkroom for a pair of developing runs, but unfortunately this likely won't actually happen until next weekend due to other higher-priority professional obligations.

Now...

What were you saying about spending all of my time on the Internet, and none of it out making photographs?

(We should trade professions and see how long it takes for your consumption to drop from a couple hundred rolls a month to a couple rolls a month. I'd even buy a ticket to watch that. As I keep trying to gently tell you, everyone's photographic experiences are unique. But just because they're not your experiences does not make them any less valid.)

Ken
 
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Sal Santamaura

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...Drove up to the Oso landslide area a bit north of me for a first-time in-person look. The same sights as seen by the president during his disaster visit. Staggering. Heart-stopping. Makes you want to cry....I still can't believe the scope of what I just saw. And yes, everything I learned about landslides from my professors was right there in front of my eyes. I've just never seen one measuring miles across...
What would make me cry is thinking about how some humans build houses in such locations and then sell them to other, unsuspecting humans.

Dead Link Removed

...What were you saying about spending all of my time on the Internet, and none of it out making photographs?...
I don't know, Ken, the complainer himself spends an awful lot of time on the Internet, here at APUG as well as other forums, frequently poking at other posters, rather than photographing. I've noticed a fair bit of pots-calling-kettles-black in this thread. :D

...just because they're not your experiences does not make them any less valid...
In my opinion, experiences aren't "valid" or "invalid," they just are. :smile:
 

Ken Nadvornick

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"You get to say the world is flat because we live in a country that guarantees free speech, but it’s not a country that guarantees that anything you say is correct." — Neil deGrasse Tyson

:smile:

Ken
 
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