Kodak Kodachrome Q60-K3 Reference File

[shridere]

I have a Kodak Kodachrome Q-60K3 slide but need a reference file to profile my scanners. If you have a Kodak Kodachrome Q60-K3 reference file to share I could really use it since getting it via Kodak will likely be nearly impossible. According to Kodak IT8 tech bulletin the variation between batches of these slides is minimal so a file you might have should certainly be in the ballpark.

 

[_T_]

The film may be very similar from batch to batch, but your scanner might be completely different from the one used to produce the file, even if it's the same make and model.

You would be no better off with a calibration file made from someone else's scanner than you would with no calibration file at all. Possibly much worse even, depending on how different your scanner is from the one that produced the file.

 

[shridere]

If you want to calibrate a scanner you need to have a reference. The IT8 transparency and reflective targets supplied by Kodak, SilverFast and X-Rite are industry standard and with the reference file insures that red, green and blue and targeted variations in between make specific color coordinate numbers. The reference file compensates for what should be fairly minor variations due, I would think, primarily to photo chemical developing of the target. In the case of a Kodachrome IT8 target, again I would think, the very nature of the Kodachrome developing process, is particularly stringent, especially so when the target is produced in a Rochester Kodak lab. Kodak was/is, if nothing else, fastidious when it comes to accuracy in all their processes. The scanner that Koday used to scan each batch of targets to make the reference file is unknown but I would think, for the third time, that the scanner would be highly accurate, stable and consistent. After all the reference scanner at Kodak, SilverFast and X-Rite is providing the absolute final calibration standard. Again, the photo chemical developing of the targets will induce the most variation as I see it, not the manufactures scanner building the compensating reference file. I own a Kodak Creo iQsmart III scanner and profiled that scanner years ago with aX-Rite/Monaco Ektachrome IT8 target. When I scan Ektachrome slides using that profile on the scanner and pass that file through my hardware profiled Eizo monitor and then print out to profiled paper stock on an Epson printer I get nearly exactly what the slide looks like on a daylight balanced light table. Repeatable and consistent. I am now profiling the Kodak Creo scanner for Kodachrome slides and the Epson V850 for both Ektachrome and Kodachrome. I will use the reference file that I have already received from a Photorio member and a member on the Luminous Landscape website as well as from SilverFast. However, the SilverFast reference file(s) are from a Kodachome target that SilverFast once made and sold so I would expect it that reference file not to be as true if used for a Kodak manufactured target. I have an email into Kodak customer service to see if I can obtain a reference file as well. Thanks to Howard, the Photorio member, for sharing his file. Will update this thread after calibration with a report on how things work out.

 

[MattKing]

I have an email into Kodak customer service

I'm curious - which remnant of Kodak?

 

[koraks]

Have you tried reaching out to Wolfgang Faust? http://www.targets.coloraid.de/ He doesn't list this file on his website, but given his expertise in profiling, there's a chance he might be able to help you with (yet another) calibration file.

 

[shridere]

curious - which remnant of Kodak?

CI-Incident-Handling-Admin@kodak.com

 

[shridere]

Have you tried reaching out to Wolfgang Faust? http://www.targets.coloraid.de/ He doesn't list this file on his website, but given his expertise in profiling, there's a chance he might be able to help you with (yet another) calibration file.

I did see Wolfgang's site. Will keep that in mind. Thanks.

 

[RiverCityKen]

Good day, folks. I also have need of a reference file for a Q-60K3 KODAK 35mm Kodachrome slide, reference 1999:10. Can anybody point me in the right direction to find the corresponding IT8 file? Thank you very much!

 

[Romanko]

What is the format of your reference slide? I understand that this is ridiculously laborious but can you measure your sample? Wolfgang provides the data for individual batches of his targets so maybe he can help with the measurements?

 

[koraks]

can you measure your sample?

Two challenges come to mind:
1: AFAIK this is a 35mm target. This makes the patches very, very small. The densitometer used would need to be one that can actually measure a tiny spot size. I don't think these are very common at all.
2: You're still left with the question of calibration of the densitometer. The obvious choice of a 'densitometer' (lacking a proper microdensitometer, which people are unlikely to own) would be...a scanner. Which would take one back to square one.

So I don't think measuring the target yourself is going to be a very feasible option.

 

[Romanko]

AFAIK this is a 35mm target.

... which calls for a calibrated Status-M microdensitometer. Do they even exist in nature? I can imagine how much NIST would charge for a calibration (provided they still do it).

 

[koraks]

I think this, in part, explains the rarity of the calibration file that's being sought.

 

[Romanko]

Have you seen this thread?

Need ICC calibration data for Kodak Q60 (IT8) Kodachrome target

If you have this scanner target, please share the ICC calibration data file with me. Thanks. I have the opportunity to purchase Kodachrome 25 and Kodachrome 64 Q60 targets, but the seller doesn't have the calibration files. Thanks in advance. (Make two people happy.)

www.photrio.com

At least two people here (@BeF and @PhilBurton) have the file. Time to make new friends.

Apparently, LaserSoft Imaging produced their own Kodachrome targets (that might or might not be close to Kodak's). The data is still available:

https://www.silverfast.com/it8calibration/en.html

 

[RiverCityKen]

I found the a possibly good file and used it. It is called K3199910.Q60, but I couldn't attach it here. So I made a zip file from it and attached it. Hope it can help others.

--Ken

 

[shridere]

Thanks to Ken and Brian on Photorio and Howard at Luminous Landscape for sending me their Kodachrome Q60K3.IT8.7/1 reference files. One thing I find interesting is that all these files have a production date of 1999:10. Accessing the X-Rite/Monaco Ektachrome IT8 reference file website there is a whole batch of reference files for each year beginning in 2020 or 2021 to the present . I would have thought the same for Kodak i.e. 1999:1, 1999:2, etc. Here is the reference file header information for 1999:10

IT8.7/1
ORIGINATOR "Eastman Kodak Company"
DESCRIPTOR "Q60K3,IT8.7/1 DATA FILES, 35MM KODACHROME"
CREATED "MARCH 08,2000"
MANUFACTURER " Eastman Kodak Company"
PROD_DATE "1999:10"
SERIAL "1999:10 BATCH AVERAGE DATA"
MATERIAL "KODACHROME PRODUCT FAMILY"
KEYWORD "MEAN_DE" # Mean Delta E of samples compared to batch average
# STDEV_DE in this data set is the average of the standard deviations of
# L*, a* and b*. It is used to derive an estimate of the chi-squared
# parameter which is recommended as the predictor of the variability of
# deltaE. See file on this disk called chi-sq.*
# THESE TARGETS ARE BASED UPON, BUT MAY NOT BE IN FULL COMPLIANCE WITH
# THE IT8 .7/1 STANDARDS.
# It should be noted that all transmittance data is based on an
# opal reference as defined in ISO 5-2 and identified in ISO 136

By the way, I profiled the Epson V850 and Kodak/Creo iQsmart III last night using X-Rite/Monaco 4x5 transparency and Color Checker SQ reflective targets driven with X-Rite i1 Profiler and profiling could not have been easier. The Monaco targets lined up perfectly. The i1 Profiler also has drop down target types not only for X-Rite/Monaco but for Kodak, HutchColor, Wolf Faust and LaserSoft targets in 35mm, 4x5 and reflective as well. It is a great application for profiling displays, projectors, printers and scanners. Pricey but very nice to work with. It is used to obtain the highest standards that involve highly accurate color matching and consistently across many industries.

One last thing, my Kodak/Creo iQsmart III came with built in color negative input profiles for a range of Kodak color negative films. Since I still shoot and have an extensive archive of color negative films this has been a god send to use these past years. File output using these input profiles are very good. A big time saver. What little color negative I have tested with the Epson V850 looks OK but not as good as with the Kodak.

In any case, thanks to all and will advise when I receive the Kodachrome slide next week in it's original unopened sleeve. Maybe the only one still in existence.

 

[shridere]

Received the Kodak Kodachrome Q60:K3 1999:10 target slide yesterday and began profiling the Epson V850 and iQsmart 3 scanners using X-Rite i1Profiler app. I had received several reference files from members of this forum and from the Luminous Landscape forum as well. The first hurdle to overcome was that reference file names starting with K (i.e. K3199910_Q60) is not a choice that the i1Profiler app allows only with E prefix reference files. I changed the file name to E3199910.Q60 however the app said the reference file but the target did not match. I then used a TextPad text editor and opened an Ektachrome IT8 E3 .mht file, deleted the data table below the header, copied the data table from the K3199910_Q60 file and changed the file name to E3199910.Q60. This hack apparently has tricked i1Profiler to fully accept the reference file and most importantly the data table with defines each of the 254 patches on the Kodak slide. The i1Profiler pull down menu allows you to select any number of target charts/slides including X-Rite/Monaco, LaserSoft, Wolf Faust, HutchColor and for Kodak only a 35mm transparency selection but not specifically for Kodachrome K3. LaserSoft for the Epson does have a Kodachrome selector. If anyone else has a different solution to approach this I am all ears.

 

[Romanko]

I am curious about your project. Obviously, you are not going into all this trouble to scan a box of family slides.

What software are you using for scanning? Have you looked at Kodachrome scanning option in Silverfast (they support Transparency, Negative and Kodachrome)? Also, Silverfast has a IT8 calibration tool, I wonder how it compares with i1Profiler.

 

[shridere]

I have an archive of landscape and fine art Kodachrome images going back to the early 1970's. For anyone willing to purchase I can now provide high quality scanned Kodachrome images under strict color management controls.

For the Epson I scan using the native Silverfast app and for the iQsmart the native Oxygen app both with CMS turned off. Q60 35mm target images are then ported to i1Profiler. i1Profiler then makes a .icm profile based on my hacked reference file with the all important data table that defines each color patch agnostic which scanner is used to make the target image. Since I was using a Kodak Kodachrome Q60 target the SilverFast could not build the profile since you need to you use the unique SilverFast generated target which is different from Kodak and is no longer available for purchase from SilverFast. Th final Kodachrome processing lab, Dwayne's, stopped Kodachrome film development in 2011 hence no new targets since then.

 

[Oddsends]

I realize this is an old thread. Do you still have your Q-60K3 calibration target? Or a spare? Or know who sells them? I'm going through a box of old Kodachrome from my dad and this is one the few places on the Internet I see someone mentioning this specific calibration target. I have an nikon ls5000 that I'm making an 8mm adapter for.

I have a Kodak Kodachrome Q-60K3 slide but need a reference file to profile my scanners. If you have a Kodak Kodachrome Q60-K3 reference file to share I could really use it since getting it via Kodak will likely be nearly impossible. According to Kodak IT8 tech bulletin the variation between batches of these slides is minimal so a file you might have should certainly be in the ballpark.

 

[shridere]

Still have the target. It was purchased off eBay for a crazy price but will probably be one of the last of it's kind available for sale anywhere. I had to strip it from its original paper mount for scanning since some patches were partially covered up and iProfiler failed to profile the target in it's original mount. It is stored in a Gepe plastic mount now and have saved the original paper mount. As can be expected I would be very reticent loaning or even renting it out for fear of having it damaged, lost or non-returned. Few would likely pay what I paid for it even if I decided to sell. Like I said it was a crazy purchase price but it let me accomplish what I wanted to do, successfully scan Kodachrome profiled images for two completely different model scanners.

 

[shridere]

Some rig there. From looking at the photo it appears to be an automated scanning setup for a Nikon 8000 or 9000 scanner. I'm impressed. Can you tell us more about it?