Thank goodness.... Perhaps some executive bonuses can now be paid? Phew! That was a close one!
Kodak gets loan; Stock Triples in Value!
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How much will you pay to feed Kodachrome into your antique film cameras? And then to process it?
Why isn't Fuji still in the chrome business?
Why isn't Fuji still in the chrome business?
https://www.consumerismcommentary.c... announced,received its initial bailout funds.
That's how govt loans can sometimes work well.
On the other hand, Medicaid is a loan (mistakenly thought to be a freebee).
That's how govt loans can sometimes work well.
On the other hand, Medicaid is a loan (mistakenly thought to be a freebee).
OK.
I wonder, when we bailed out GM and for the second time bailed out Chrysler...did you think that was other than welfare?
MattKing
Moderator
Welfare is mostly a very good thing - it keeps people alive and capable of improvement, and provides a stabilizing influence on the economy. Lots of landlords are very grateful for the existence of welfare, as are their mortgage lenders.
Even if you call loans and grants to corporations who generate substantial amounts of economic activity "welfare" it isn't necessarily bad. There may be other ways to obtain the same benefit, but often they end up costing much more - either to the government, or to the myriad of dealers, employees, suppliers, their employees, the lenders who are owed money by all of the foregoing and numerous others.
It isn't what you call it, it is what its benefits and costs are.
Even if you call loans and grants to corporations who generate substantial amounts of economic activity "welfare" it isn't necessarily bad. There may be other ways to obtain the same benefit, but often they end up costing much more - either to the government, or to the myriad of dealers, employees, suppliers, their employees, the lenders who are owed money by all of the foregoing and numerous others.
It isn't what you call it, it is what its benefits and costs are.
OP
OP
The Kodak move could be viewed as welfare, but it is really a national security initiative. The feds decided it was not secure to depend on foreign sources for all our basic needs. This has been discussed for decades, and given a lot of lip service, but the Trump administration is acting on it. Whether Kodak is really the best choice is open to debate for sure. I can see a political benefit- first it is in NY (Trump's home state and it helps Cuomo). It gives some capability for Trump and Cuomo to work together, plus it benefits Cuomo a lot by helping to revive upstate NY. Basically it helps soften the war between Democrats and Republicans a little. I think Kodak does have capability in chemicals, and they do have some of the needed infrastructure. We will have to wait and see if it will be possible to repurpose it, or if it will end up getting gutted and replaced. I wonder if Kodak will have some challenges to implement pharmaceutical GMP (Good Manufacturing Practices- a formal set of processes), but I suspect this can be done.
Good question. When is ok to throw money corporations? The bailout of the a auto industry did provide relief to workers and communities. The sweetheart deal that they got, I might object to. For example, the article you cited above fails to point out that GM repaid the federal government with government money held in escrow.
https://abcnews.go.com/Business/general-motors-fire-misleading-bailout-ad/story?id=10513568
The US still retains partial ownership of GM, I believe (something that should rare and avoided when possible).
Corporate welfare that extends to stadiums, convention centers, highways to no where, et al I strongly object to. Using eminent domain to feather the nest of developers, I strongly object to.
Spending to bring pharmaceutic and vaccine manufacturing online to combat a global pandemic that is wrecking economies worldwide seems reasonable to me.
Are you against speeding up vaccine development and production?
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I wonder about this, too. But I am not knee-jerk against it. The question has been raised why Kodak and not others? I don't know why Kodak specifically, but there are plausible reasons.
1. Gaining GMP compliance might be a clear reason a bolus of cash could really help a contract synthesis company. Maybe some other infrastructure would allow Kodak to effectively meet pharmaceutical manufacturing (or manufacture precursor compounds). A sound ROI to meet pharma manufacturing goals?
2. Why give money to manufacturers that are already up and running? Just give them the contract for manufacturing.
3. Some companies might not want the strings attached to this loan.
Re-establishing pharmaceutical and biologics manufacturing in the US is a strategically valid reason to bolster US manufacturing infrastructure.
Ahh. The halcyon days of small pox and polio. Good times!
IMO it would have been more in the national interest to let two companies (GM and Chrysler) simply die, given that they had not been making vehicles that could compete globally with Toyota ;and Volkswagen. Result of those bail outs: two giant companies that continued to make inferior automobiles.
LOL, that's how corruption works.
Support Trump, suddenly as if by magic hundreds of millions of other people's money comes your way.
OP
OP
1. Gaining GMP compliance might be a clear reason a bolus of cash could really help a contract synthesis company. Maybe some other infrastructure would allow Kodak to effectively meet pharmaceutical manufacturing (or manufacture precursor compounds). A sound ROI to meet pharma manufacturing goals?
They claim they already have the capability in Kodak Specialty Chemicals, so it is a matter of scaling up (I believe this is real). They say they have a lot of mothballed infrastructure that is suitable (this may be where some surprises come, but I suspect they do have some).
2. Why give money to manufacturers that are already up and running? Just give them the contract for manufacturing.
The idea is to create capacity that has been determined to not exist. If Kodak can be resurrected successfully it would be a big win.
3. Some companies might not want the strings attached to this loan.
I suspect many contract manufacturers would not sign up the America only policy, and perhaps some other strings attached.
agreed
OP
OP
I hope it at least bailed out some Kodak retirees also. Too bad Ron could not be here to see this day.
I'm all about Kodak getting a much needed stimulus but as with everything to do with this administration, it's a little fishy.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/29/kod...ity-before-government-deal-was-announced.html
There's even more here to indicate that not all may have been 'above board' including the information that they will be making hydroxychloroquine (which if you've been paying attention is pretty dang useless to American's right now).
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/29/kod...ity-before-government-deal-was-announced.html
There's even more here to indicate that not all may have been 'above board' including the information that they will be making hydroxychloroquine (which if you've been paying attention is pretty dang useless to American's right now).
OP
OP
GM and Chrysler make pretty good autos today (at least GM). The US is an international center for automotive manufacturing. Every car company in the world has offices in Detroit to tap the talent pool. All autos around the world including GM and Chrysler work on a global components model. The old GM/Ford/Chrysler of in house everything is long gone. The auto makers design an auto and component manufacturers supply components to specifications. The big auto makers build some key components (body, frame, engine usually) but then assemble the autos, market and sell. The quality is better because everyone concentrates on their specialty. No more cool looking Jaguars with lousy electrical systems that do not work. JLR just specifies the electrical system (I suspect) and gets a competent one to install. Of course cars are more expensive today also, but tend to work. Not sure how the bail-out fits into this, but without it, Detroit may be totally dead.
OP
OP
This will get vetted. Trump will get attacked for anything he does, but in the end we will know the truth. I do not think Solyndra got the kind of attention this is getting, but maybe it should have.
Hydroxychloroquine is still getting vetted. It has become political. I noticed that, but what is happening at Kodak s more about national security in the long run than a Covid-19 play; though Covid-19 is what made the move possible (as the public became aware of the deficiencies, they will accept this more). This is one of these things that people talked about for decades, and got a lot of lip service. To Trump's credit he is actually doing something. If no corruption falls out, it may turn out to be a good move.
I don't know what it means the CEO buying stocks five weeks before news was leaked, but I doubt that Kodak will be making hydroxychloroquine. They aren't going to manufacture drugs (as I read it), they will by synthesizing precursors for the manufacture of drugs. Second, hydroxychlorquine is a political football and what we hear about it's lack of efficacy might not be true. Although it is probably true hydroxychloroquine has little to no efficacy for covid-19 patients. The problem is that there is so much noise surrounding the drug and research, it is hard to get a true picture. From the beginning days when China and France touted it as a useful treatment, to the increase of studies discounting its utility, to Lancet having to retract an article on the perils of its use, to India still using it full throttle. Such studies are hard to do, even harder to in a pandemic for ethical reasons, and it's always hard to prove a negative. Further, when during a disease state a drug is used can matter a great deal, not to mention the complications of adjuvant therapies. It is important to remember hydroxchloroquine use didn't emerge from thin air. It may be a dude but I am certain that its use world wide and here wasn't quackery.
Quinine derivatives plus Zinc is believed to be highly effective against SARS-Influenza.
The same could be said for either existing pharmaceutical firms or any synthesizing firm.
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