Kodak EPY and EPP officially discontinued

[mikebarger]

There are a few people who would like to see 8 tracks sold and Walgreens, but I don't think it is going to happen.

Mike

 

[DanielStone]

I honestly think one of, if not the major problem with EPP was the cost. I really like EPP, but I am not about to pay $13 a roll when I could get E100G for half that. And, since EPP was no Kodachrome, people are not willing to pay that.

what made it "so" expensive to justify a $13/roll price?

-Dan

 

[nickandre]

There aren't many films left

 

[JBrunner]

We'll have to keep an eye on the motion picture industry. When that market is gone it is hard to see how we will still have any color materials to choose from.

Motion picture will chug along quite happily with or without still film. They don't shoot the film you do, nor does it have the same processing. Some of the MP research finds its way into still film, but sales and production of MP is independent of still. If still film goes all the way in the toilet, they'll dump it, even if they continue to cut and coat MP. MP will not keep still film alive.

 

[wildbill]

Motion picture will chug along quite happily with or without still film. They don't shoot the film you do, nor does it have the same processing. Some of the MP research finds its way into still film, but sales and production of MP is independent of still. If still film goes all the way in the toilet, they'll dump it, even if they continue to cut and coat MP. MP will not keep still film alive.

I'm guessing that a vast majority of kodak's revenue from film comes from movie film. Movies like "where the wild things are" shot 2 million feet of it. If mp film ceased production, still film wouldn't be far behind. Kodak certainly doesn't have a hold on the consumer digital camera market. Their sales of medium format sensors isn't going to keep them afloat either. My two cents.

 

[Ektagraphic]

This sucks! I loved both of these films!

 

[Ektagraphic]

I was just getting into EPP in 120! That is one of the reasons I got into 120!! What is going to happen to the Kodak E-6 films left when it comes time to coat some more? Are those going to go out the door too?

 

[erikg]

Motion picture will chug along quite happily with or without still film. They don't shoot the film you do, nor does it have the same processing. Some of the MP research finds its way into still film, but sales and production of MP is independent of still. If still film goes all the way in the toilet, they'll dump it, even if they continue to cut and coat MP. MP will not keep still film alive.

I'm sure you are right. I have the idea that MP film production keeps the factory viable, if that goes that is it for all if it. I know that the film stock and processing is different. The other thought I have is that if MP stock is the only thing left at least that could be shot in a still camera, if there was some way to process it. But nothing lasts forever. I'll enjoy what I can for as long as I can, I guess.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Remember that MP negatve and print films are different than MP reversal and reversal print films. The market for the former two is huge, but the market for the latter two is very very tiny. And, the R&D of the first two has no bearing on the second two. If E6 were to go totally, then the reversal MP products would likely go as well.

PE

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Ron,

I guess there isn't much use of in-camera reversal film in relation to motion picture work, aside from limited Super 8 type usage.

Tom

 

[Photo Engineer]

VNF film is still sold and Kodak has posted the process chemistry for it. The film occupies a tiny niche market.

PE

 

[PHOTOTONE]

I have used EPP in 4x5 exclusively in my studio work for over 30 years. I use about 100 sheets a month.

 

[B&Wpositive]

So...speaking of MP film...

Vision 100T
Vision 200T
Vision 500T

Looks like ironically the only tungsten balanced (negative) films left are MP film. If we need a tungsten film, these will soon be the only choice. I'd like to know who can process ECN-II reloaded into 35mm still cassettes.

Also, I wonder how well these films scan and print optically.



When I got into photography in 1997, there were a huge number of different film emulsions made by various companies. I'm guessing that was the largest selection ever available. Kodak must have had over 30 films alone, Fuji close to that, and then there was Agfa, Scotch, and of course Ilford.

As for Kodak slide film: I have a feeling that we've weathered the worst of it. I don't think that axing EPY and EPP will really hurt them much. I don't see it driving more people toward digital and away from film; there were so few users of these films, and they will probably migrate to E100G or E100VS. I don't see them dropping anything else anytime soon, except for possibly E200. We've already lost a ton of slide film types in the last couple of years; it can't get much worse. Since 2007, we've lost the following slide emulsions:

EPY-64T
EPR-64
PKR and KR-64
EPN-100
EPP-100
E100GX
EPT-160T
PKL and KL-200
EPJ-320T
EL-400
EPL-400
EPH-1600
EIR

E200 is only left in 35mm. I'm guessing that means that it, too, is on its way out soon.

Kodak hinted as far back as mid 2007 that EPP was on the way out; they had removed the direct link to that and a couple of other films on their slide film section of the website, all of which were sonner or later discontinued. They've done the same for several b&w emulsions a while back. I'm keeping those fingers crossed...

I wish Kodak would just get it over with and discontinue E200 totally. And then replace it with a new E400 that is just as good for astrophotography and pushing, but with better image quality and more speed!

On the bright side, we still have 6 Kodak E6 emulsions left:

E100G (I can't wait to try this)
Elite Chrome 100 - 35mm
Elite Chrome Extra Color 100 - 35mm
Ektachrome E100VS (I can't wait to try this one, either!)
Elite Chrome 200
Ektachrome E200

Fuji still has 9 E6 films:

Velvia 50 II
Velvia 100
Velvia 100F
Provia 100F
Astia 100F
Sensia 100
Sensia 200
Sensia 400
Provia 400X (I can't with to try this either!)

Anyone want an Ektachrome E400 and are willing to let E200 go in the process?

 

[JBrunner]

So...speaking of MP film...

Vision 100T
Vision 200T
Vision 500T

Looks like ironically the only tungsten balanced (negative) films left are MP film. If we need a tungsten film, these will soon be the only choice. I'd like to know who can process ECN-II reloaded into 35mm still cassettes.

Also, I wonder how well these films scan and print optically.

Very large latitude, very low contrast. Bad grain (comparatively) Good tolerance for mixed kelvin. It would take some getting used to, but it can (and has) been done. Sadly, MP film is so specially designed for such a different application that it doesn't really print well in an enlargement IME. The current still films are vastly superior to MP for their intended use IMO.

 

[2F/2F]

IMHO, EPP was the best E6 film to cross process. I will miss it.

PE

On your recommendation, I tried it for this, and it is, indeed, excellent. It is the closest to "normal" I have ever seen in a cross processed film...especially when overexposed a few stops.

 

[Fredrik Sandstrom]

VNF film is still sold

Really? What film might that be? The only color reversal cine films I can find on Kodak's web site are Ektachrome 100D and 64T - both E6 films. I was also under the impression that VNF processing was completely discontinued, in favor of E6.

 

[Shangheye]

E200 is only left in 35mm. I'm guessing that means that it, too, is on its way out soon.

Is it? I can get it in my local shop at 120 size and have not seen any notice of dicontinuation for the 120 size...what is the basis for that statement?

I wish Kodak would just get it over with and discontinue E200 totally. And then replace it with a new E400 that is just as good for astrophotography and pushing, but with better image quality and more speed!

I don't. E200 is perfect as it is. Why would further development costs to improve on something already excellent help a financial case? The problem is when things like that happen, Kodak lose users who have built their work around a particular film's charcateristics, and those peole look at other brands (i.e. brand loyalty is lost)...then the numbers dwindle. then they discontinue films..

Anyone want an Ektachrome E400 and are willing to let E200 go in the process?

Not me

 

[Ektagraphic]

I like E200. The only thing that holde me back from shooting more of it is the price of it. You can still get Elite Chrome 200 for just over $5 at B&H though. The only thing with that is that B&H has had it out of stock for months so I don't think they will get any...unless Kodak needed to coat ssome more or something

 

[Terrence Brennan]

EPP push & pull

IMHO, EPP was the best E6 film to cross process. I will miss it.

PE

I never had much luck with push/pull with that particular emulsion, unlike EPN, EPY or even 6121, when the occasion or job demanded it. I found that it tended to go magenta/blue when pushed, and yellow/green when pulled.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Really? What film might that be? The only color reversal cine films I can find on Kodak's web site are Ektachrome 100D and 64T - both E6 films. I was also under the impression that VNF processing was completely discontinued, in favor of E6.

The last I looked VNF was a "Video News Film" for a modified E4 process and was used by students mainly for learning video production the old way.

The MP film was made but the chemistry was "do it yourself" and Kodak published the VNF-1 process on their web site for this purpose. I have not looked lately but about 6 months ago the data were still there on the film and process.

If I erred, Sorry.

PE

 

[Ian Cooper]

VNF film (7240) was discontinued by Kodak in about 2004, the processing chemistry continued to be produced until 2006, with the last production batch of chems available until sometime in 2008 I believe. (see announcement)

The following was posted on the cinematography.com forum by the late John Pytlak of Kodak MP in Feb 2005 after someone there enquired about using VNF film.

June 2004
Dear Customer:
Kodak is announcing plans to discontinue manufacturing all EASTMAN EKTACHROME Color Reversal Motion
Picture Films by year-end 2004.
This decision has not been taken lightly and is brought about by two fundamental reasons. Kodak?s proactive
environmental strategy calls for the elimination of several component parts in these products and falling sales
volume due to lack of demand. Unfortunately, this combination of factors prohibits our ability to enter into a
research and development program to re-engineer these products. You can imagine, we are very disappointed to
have to make this decision.
As a result, the product discontinuance schedule is as follows:
Immediate:
· EASTMAN EKTACHROME High Speed Film 400T SO-251 (ESTAR)
· EASTMAN EKTACHROME Film 160D 2239 (ESTAR)
Within six months:
Depending on customer demand, we anticipate that supplies of the following films will be available for
approximately four to six months:
· EASTMAN EKTACHROME Film 160D 7239
· EASTMAN EKTACHROME Film 125T 7240
· EASTMAN EKTACHROME Print Film 7399 and 5399
By year-end:
Production of the following high speed EKTACHROME Color Reversal Motion Picture Films will cease by yearend.
Depending on customer demand, we anticipate that supplies of the following films will be available for
approximately three months into 2005:
· EASTMAN EKTACHROME Film 400T 7250
· EASTMAN EKTACHROME Film 400D 7251
· EASTMAN EKTACHROME Film 400D 2253 (ESTAR)

Together with this link to the offical .PDF notification dated June 2004.

All Kodak motion picture reversal film is E6 process now (100D in 16 & 35mm, 64T in super 8)

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ian;

Thanks for that information. Sorry for my badly outdated information.

PE

 

[Ian Cooper]

It'll be interesting to see what the future holds for 64T in super 8, especially as it's only recently been introduced as the replacement for Kodachrome 40.

Having said that, there have been quite a lot of calls for Kodak to introduce 100D in super 8 as a finer grained film that 64T. It's already available from independant suppliers who cut it down and re-perf it from 16/35mm versions, but it would be better straight from Kodak.

 

[HerrBremerhaven]

......

It seems that Kodak (and Fuji) bring out new films which show little or no practical improvement on the old, which have served everyone prefectly well for some years....is this just a marketing gimmick, and, if so, it can't be working well if it just upsets existing users.

.......

I got a few test rolls of Fuji 400X from the Fuji reps when that film came out. I also got new Velvia and a few other samples. I never liked Provia 400F, but I now use Fuji Provia 400X often. This has become my low light and push processing film of choice, now replacing what I previously accomplished with Kodak E200.

I have used all the Kodak E family of transparency films, and greatly prefer them over their older E-6 films. I can see why E100GX was discontinued, because it is barely different than E100G, though both are comparable with Fuji Astia 100F. However, my favorite of E-family films is still E100VS, which is not matched by Fuji for red or yellow rendition (like when photographing Italian sports cars).

One thing that has been happening between Fuji and Kodak is that their respective E-6 films do not compete as directly as in the past. When I ask the reps about this, I get a smile, but no direct reply. My contacts at Kodak also dodge the question, though I did get one authoritative reply of "it makes sense to follow that direction". So if a film goes away at Kodak, then I suggest trying something near that from Fuji.

We might wonder if Kodak still sells a greater volume of E-6 films than Fujifilm. Pure speculation, but I could imagine that if Fujifilm greatly exceed Kodak in this realm at some point in the future, then Fuji might become the only volume maker of E-6 films.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Fuji has always had a slight advantage in reversal film sales for E6 processing. OTOH, Kodak has always had a slight advantage over Fuji in negative film sales and color paper. Kodak has a commanding lead in motion picture film stocks.

PE