Kodak Ektar 100 .... I think I'm in love again!

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wogster

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That's an interesting thesis. I would be interested to see what examples you might give to show that this is normative.




I certainly don't have market numbers at my finger tips and I think it would take a significant wager to make digging them up worthwhile... but exactly what period in time are you conjecturing about? Given that B+W once represented 100% of the market, what "significant part of the market" returned to B+W film (and when)?



Welcome back to the wet side. In my line of work it is not uncommon for several people to mention to me in a a day that they miss the darkroom. I always tell them that we will welcome them back, no questions asked. This always elicits the same kind of circular hem-haw that your get from folks when you mention to them the perils of eating fatty snacks. I hope your guess about a "a reasonably sized sustainable market" proves true (my livelyhood depends on it). I do wonder though, having witnessed the slide, what size and shape that market will take. I can think of many examples of artists / artisans keeping crafts alive that are sustainable at the DIY and cottage industry level. I would like to see some concrete evidence of the market reviving outmoded technologies that depended on industrialized manufacture for their existence.
Celac

I said small but significant, commonly I think people who see the artistic merit, lots of pro's switched not because they thought digital was better, but because it was a job/business requirement. I don't have that issue, so I can work in whatever format I like. Nobody, can convince me, that anything digital can beat a good, hand made AgX print, properly mounted and framed.

The new market for film, may be very different from what we are used to. I expect that most film will come from Asia or Eastern Europe, I can see Ilford being a part of it, I can see Kodak being a part of it, a much smaller Kodak that could get bought out by an Efke or Foma to give them a better access to the North American market, and access to Kodak's colour technologies.

Technically there is nothing in basic photography that needs a major manufacturer, cellulose acetate is available from industry (it's not just used in film manufacturing), emulsions are a combination of simple chemicals and chemistry, you just need a method of coating the emulsion on the film. Processing chemistries, especially for B&W is all simple chemicals that can be mixed up at home. Colour might be more difficult, although the major difference is the colour couplers, and coating would be even more critical. It would always be possible to do 3 exposures onto separate frames with 3 primary colour filters, then use a dye transfer printing process.

Even without a Kodak and a Fuji. film photography will survive, in some form or another.
 

Admbws

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Even without a Kodak and a Fuji. film photography will survive, in some form or another.

I'm not sure I share your optimism. Making film is in principle a very simple proposition. That's where the simplicity stops. I know this simply from reading the posts from the resident engineers: making a film is fairly easy. Making a decent film is incredibly difficult!

In other words, most of us, with a but of swotting and experimentation, might be able to make a 19th century-era emulsion and coat it on a glass plate. A small Eastern European outfit might be able to take a 1950's emulsion and coat it on a bit of acetate. But only a Kodak or a Fuji has the expertise and resources to research, design and coat a modern emulsion like Ektar 100.

Film may survive in some form or another, but if that means stepping back fifty years and losing modern t-grain black and white and colour films I might well decide to hang up my Rolleiflex, and I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling that way.
 

David A. Goldfarb

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Would that we could step back fifty years, and then we'd have some real B&W films. I'm not convinced that we can make better photographs with modern B&W films than our predecessors made with films like Super-XX and printed on papers like DuPont Velour Black.
 
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JBrunner

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I'm not sure I share your optimism. Making film is in principle a very simple proposition. That's where the simplicity stops. I know this simply from reading the posts from the resident engineers: making a film is fairly easy. Making a decent film is incredibly difficult!

In other words, most of us, with a but of swotting and experimentation, might be able to make a 19th century-era emulsion and coat it on a glass plate. A small Eastern European outfit might be able to take a 1950's emulsion and coat it on a bit of acetate. But only a Kodak or a Fuji has the expertise and resources to research, design and coat a modern emulsion like Ektar 100.

Film may survive in some form or another, but if that means stepping back fifty years and losing modern t-grain black and white and colour films I might well decide to hang up my Rolleiflex, and I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling that way.

I could live without Ektar 100. I'd trade it in a second for HIE or Super XX. Of course I'm glad we have it, but a "modern" emulsion is hardly a deal breaker when it comes to me shooting film.
 

jd callow

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I could live without Ektar 100. I'd trade it in a second for HIE or Super XX. Of course I'm glad we have it, but a "modern" emulsion is hardly a deal breaker when it comes to me shooting film.

I could live without my stash of 4x5 Super XX. I'd trade it away in an instant for a renewed supply of EPT in 120. Unfortunatly I have no need for any 35mm film. If they make Ektar 100 in 120 or 4x5 I'll buy it in an instant.
 

wogster

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I'm not sure I share your optimism. Making film is in principle a very simple proposition. That's where the simplicity stops. I know this simply from reading the posts from the resident engineers: making a film is fairly easy. Making a decent film is incredibly difficult!

In other words, most of us, with a but of swotting and experimentation, might be able to make a 19th century-era emulsion and coat it on a glass plate. A small Eastern European outfit might be able to take a 1950's emulsion and coat it on a bit of acetate. But only a Kodak or a Fuji has the expertise and resources to research, design and coat a modern emulsion like Ektar 100.

Film may survive in some form or another, but if that means stepping back fifty years and losing modern t-grain black and white and colour films I might well decide to hang up my Rolleiflex, and I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling that way.

Well, first of all, I don't think that companies like Kodak or Fuji will disappear, it will be the same old story, played out thousands of times over the last 100 years or so, company starts small, grows huge, makes a fatal mistake, goes bankrupt, gets bought out by another often smaller player, goes through a merger, and comes out with a new identity and manufacturing done over seas. Kodak like most US companies is US centric, so when the US market falters, they make the assumption that the market in all other places is exactly the same, and they tend to get out of business areas where there may be a thriving market outside the US. Film may not sell well in Baltimore, but may be selling extremely well in Bangalore. Fuji on the other hand is Japanese, the Japanese understand that the world does not go as Japan goes, so I expect them to stay in the film market much longer. Even if it means subcontracting the making of film/paper to Lucky in China.
 

mtjade2007

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Fuji on the other hand is Japanese, the Japanese understand that the world does not go as Japan goes, so I expect them to stay in the film market much longer. Even if it means subcontracting the making of film/paper to Lucky in China.

No, Kodak will do much better in China than Fuji. Chinese are brain washed by the government to hate Japanese. They have resisted anything Japanese for the last 60 years. Just see how successful VW has been in China. Toyota is no match to VW in China. I love Kodak films myself. I don't have a bias against Japanese but I never really liked Fuji films. I actually liked a little Konica because it's cheaper.
 

wogster

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No, Kodak will do much better in China than Fuji. Chinese are brain washed by the government to hate Japanese. They have resisted anything Japanese for the last 60 years. Just see how successful VW has been in China. Toyota is no match to VW in China. I love Kodak films myself. I don't have a bias against Japanese but I never really liked Fuji films. I actually liked a little Konica because it's cheaper.

So why are half the Japanese companies now outsourcing manufacturing to China? See the Japanese have a problem, expensive labour. You see Japanese workers found that the screw down bolt 46 and American worker could get $20/hr with full benefits. So the Japanese worker wanted $20/hr with full benefits, This is one of the reasons you can buy an American assembled Toyota. Toyota can ship 5 times as many cars in parts as they can fully assembled, there is no longer labour savings because Japanese workers make as much as American workers, so they save lots of money by shipping the parts, and assembling the car in America.

The Japanese do the same as countries elsewhere, they subcontract manufacturing to the Chinese, who are willing to overlook their hate when they see the mitt full of cash the Japanese guy is holding.....

Konica made good film and great cameras, I know I have a couple of their cameras, one is now 31 years old and the other is 27, the younger is still going strong.... The older needs some service, but then so do most other things it's age.....

Most likely scenario for Kodak is that they will run into trouble, and get bought out by someone else, most likely one of the Eastern European firms....
 

mtjade2007

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Making products in China is not the same of selling products into China. There are a lot of McDonalds, Starbucks and KFC's in China. I bet you don't see many sashimi restaurants in China. Chinese people are taught to hate Japanese for many reasons. They won't mind Japanese build factories in China and pay them labor wages. But they will resist in buying Japanese products. That's why I am saying why Kodak will do better than Fuji in China. I am quite sure about this as I speak the Chinese language and I really know the people there.

Yeah this thread is about Ekta 100. But somehow it evolves into Kodak vs. Fuji and which will do better in China. Sorry about that...
 

ChrisPlatt

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I want to see this film compared to 160VC, 160C, Reala, Superia 100, Superia 200, Gold 100, and Gold 200.

I too am very happy to see that Kodak has introduced a new film,
but please show me that Ektar worth twice the price of Gold 100.

Chris
 

wogster

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And again I ask...

It's not uncommon for long lived threads in forums and mailing lists to somewhat change direction as they age, and some will change directions multiple times. The new Ektar film maybe be very nice, although I doubt that at this point there would be 9 pages of comments on it.

I'd still like to see a magazine style comparison between this and a few other modern films in the same class. Other then possibly B+W, I don't think there are any magazines that are not 100% digital now, so I don't know who would be willing to put such a comparison into print. Price wise it seems to fall between the pure professional and pure amateur films, so I am not sure what is even in the same class.
 

Lee L

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I have a copy of PhotoTechniques sitting in front of me which certainly isn't 100 % digital. Jan / Feb 2009 issue.

Tom.
I'd be surprised if a review of Ektar 100 by Ctein didn't appear in Photo Techniques in the next couple of issues. He always compares to similar films when reviewing one, such as the Pro160 and Portra films.

Apologies for mentioning Ektar 100 in the thread again. :smile:

Lee
 

jd callow

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I think they'll merg with Chrysler who will be bought out by AIG.
 

nufe

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Hey Jack,
I haven't tried this film myself, but it looks impressive (and I certainly recognized your train shots). I had to comment on the Rite Aid processing. I had a roll processed by them a few months back and the negs were full of spots and just plain looked terrible.
Bob


I had a role of Ektar 100 processed by Rite Aid yesterday late afternoon... I had the same problem you described. I won't be using them again.
 

Naples

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Today I picked up my first two processed rolls of Ektar 100 from a local pro lab (Naples Custom Photo).

First, the lab. The two guys who run it (who shoot mostly MF and LF) were excited to process their first Ektar rolls; they had read about the new film but had not seen it yet. When I picked up the negs and photos they commented how nice they looked and one of them said, “It doesn’t have any grain. Just when no one is buying film Kodak comes out with a great film”.

Second, the photos. They were taken at Disney World this past weekend, and I am very pleased with them. The colors are vibrant but not overdone; although the reds may be a tad on the bright side. Still, most important (for me, anyway), the skin tones of my wife and kids are spot on, something I have had trouble with in the past when using "ultra color" films. In fact the skin tones from these two rolls of Ektar look identical to the skin tones of my wife and kids from the Portra 160NC I shot this past Christmas Day.

Great film ... it delivers on the vivid colors without compromising on the skin tones.
 

Toffle

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Very um... interesting thread. :munch:

I'm not quite sure whose opinion to trust... oh yeah... my own. :rolleyes: I had an errand in the city this morning and picked up a few rolls of Ektar 100 to try for myself. Until I see the results, I'll try to control my level of indignation over my blatant manipulation by Big Yellow.

Cheers,
 

keithwms

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Braxus, are those scanned negs or scanned prints?

I suppose it'd be nice if Kodak brought out a maskless version of this film, for purposes of scanning. I have been experimenting with the digibase and do wish it were a finer grained film.
 
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