Kodak D-76 Issue

MattKing · Oct 31, 2020

Production changes arise as a result of upheaval in the manufacturing world.
Unexpected problems arise after product gets into customers' hands.
Kodak Alaris publicly acknowledges problem, works to correct it for new production and takes steps to replace product for customers.
Much better than going out of business, which so many others have done instead.

DeletedAcct1 · Nov 1, 2020

MattKing said:
Production changes arise as a result of upheaval in the manufacturing world.
Unexpected problems arise after product gets into customers' hands.
Kodak Alaris publicly acknowledges problem, works to correct it for new production and takes steps to replace product for customers.
Much better than going out of business, which so many others have done instead.

Just for curiosity, is it known or publicly disclosed by Kodak Alaris what has caused the Xtol, d76, Dektol recent failures?

MattKing · Nov 1, 2020

Alessandro Serrao said:
Just for curiosity, is it known or publicly disclosed by Kodak Alaris what has caused the Xtol, d76, Dektol recent failures?

Kodak Alaris refers to non photo-active impurities in Dektol that its manufacturer is working to remove.
As I understand it, the problems with D-76 and X-Tol are related to the interim change of the packaging. I'm not sure if there have been any problems with the subsequent, new, much larger bags, but I do know that at least one retailer doesn't like how big and hard to display they are.

pentaxuser · Nov 1, 2020

MattKing said:
As I understand it, the problems with D-76 and X-Tol are related to the interim change of the packaging. I'm not sure if there have been any problems with the subsequent, new, much larger bags, but I do know that at least one retailer doesn't like how big and hard to display they are.

Thanks Matt, so KA have made a change in response to the problem and in the future the first question we need to ask of any complainants is whether they have the new much larger bags.

Should the complaints cease then it is a reasonable assumption that KA's action has solved the problem.

Matt do you know what the much larger bags do that solves the issue?

Thanks

pentaxuser

MattKing · Nov 1, 2020

pentaxuser said:
Matt do you know what the much larger bags do that solves the issue?

No.
They may simply be a more durable bag that can be quickly sourced in these times of supply disruption.
My expectation though is that they are a temporary solution, because I can't see brick and mortar retailers, online retailers and shippers, or high volume users being happy with how big and how floppy they are.

pentaxuser · Nov 1, 2020

Thanks Matt I haven't seen any of these but I had the mistaken belief that these might be a little bigger but they sound very much bigger i.e. a lot bigger than they need to be but that size is perhaps all that is available in current times which is of the right material.

However I'd assume that given the volume of powder in them they can at least be folded for carrying and once home can be laid flat until opened and disposed of. If these do the trick then this is one consumer who wouldn't be bothered but it seems they may give retailers and shippers a problem from what you say

pentaxuser

MattKing · Nov 1, 2020

I'll try to take a dimensioned digital picture to post here, for reference.

MattKing · Nov 1, 2020

Here you go.
The latest packaging on the left, and the historical, pre-Tetenal receivership packaging on the right.
Note that the large, outer package in the new packaging contains two separate bags of the same durable material - one for part A and one for part B.
The historical packaging had no exterior bag - it is/was just two bags attached together.
I don't have an example of the interim packaging, which I understand to be in the same arrangement as the historical packaging. I've heard, but can't confirm, that the problem with the interim packaging was related to the way that the bags were attached together.

grat · Nov 1, 2020

For what it's worth, both the bad batch of D76 I received, and the replacement bag I received, were the same size (the oversized bag from Matt's photo).

I've wondered if they package the chemicals with nitrogen, or some other inert gas-- if so, it could be as simple as an o-ring failure at the packaging plant that wasn't caught in time.

MattKing · Nov 1, 2020

Thanks for clarifying that grat.

pentaxuser · Nov 2, 2020

Thanks Matt My first reaction is to say that if this larger bag which appears perfectly manageable to me has cured then problem then what's the problem?

It would certainly do for me

pentaxuser

MattKing · Nov 2, 2020

pentaxuser said:
Thanks Matt My first reaction is to say that if this larger bag which appears perfectly manageable to me has cured then problem then what's the problem?

It is very awkward if you actually have a store with shelf space, and I expect it is more difficult to pack for shipping.

mklw1954 · Nov 3, 2020

I had 3 bags of D76 in the new, longer bags and only two were dark/discolored, those that were from one of the batch designations identified as bad. The third was fine; you can see if the powder is white or dark/discolored in the unopened bag, another change from the old bags. So based on that the batch was the problem not the packaging.

I can see how stores would dislike the packaging; if you hold the bag up or try to stand it up for display, all the powder is in the bottom 20% of the package, so it's thick at the bottom and nothing in most of the rest of the package. The older packages were thinner.

MattKing · Nov 3, 2020

It occurs to me that the problem described herein with D-76 is a different problem than the earlier problem with X-Tol.
The D-76 problem isn't necessarily related to the packaging. My understanding is that the problem with X-Tol was related to the first change in packaging.

StepheKoontz · Apr 13, 2021

MattKing said:
Quoted here:
Kodak Professional
4 hrs ·
"Let’s talk D-76.

If you have Catalog #1058270 (Batch 2020/01/23 8438 & Batch 2019/10/09 8432), you may have noticed a discoloring of your product. Please know we’re aware of this and apologize for the inconvenience or confusion this may have caused for a product you’re well used to.

Rest assured we want to get this taken care of for you. Please email us at ProPaperChem@KodakAlaris.com and our team will be back in touch to provide you with next steps on this specific product.

*If you have the product in your care and have not yet opened it, we encourage you to reach out to us for next steps as well.

For any questions in the meantime, please don’t hesitate to be in touch with us via email or private message!"

A follow up, I went to mix up some D-76 and I have a bag from this batch that is super dark brown. The above email address bounced so I tried a couple of others. I will report back.

MattKing · Apr 13, 2021

If you haven't already, try info@sinopromise.com and ProPaperChem@sinopromise.com

RalphLambrecht · Apr 14, 2021

MattKing said:
I wonder whether concentrated D-76 would function as a print developer?

it does but I don't see any advantages.

grat · Apr 14, 2021

I went looking for an answer to this question regarding Harman Direct Positive paper... According to one site, it functions poorly-- unless you add a bit of baking soda, at which point it's apparently really good.

He added 1/2 teaspoon baking soda per 500ml of stock D-76 and used two minutes of developing time. Said it worked for Multigrade IV as well.

MattKing · Apr 14, 2021

My comment about using D-76 as a print developer was a suggestion about what could be a relatively safe, backup use of a film developer that was of uncertain reliability. If used as a print developer and it fails, you waste at most a sheet of paper or two. If a film developer fails, you waste a film and all the effort that went into exposing it.

Vonder · Apr 14, 2021

I know this is an older thread, but it happened to me in March of this year. Dark chemicals and mix. I knew enough not to trust it, but didn't think to contact Kodak. Just returned it to the vendor.

Donald Qualls · Apr 14, 2021

Vonder said:
didn't think to contact Kodak. Just returned it to the vendor.

That's an equally legitimate response, IMO.

gone · Apr 14, 2021

I contacted Kodak about a bad batch of D76 last week. They promptly responded, and are sending a replacement. However, they conveniently didn't mention replacing my Dektol that was so brown it was crazy. It was a strange email they sent. They expressed their concern about my experiences, but never admitted that they have a problem w/ their products!

Will the replacement D76 they're sending be any good? I have absolutely no confidence in that, and bought some old cans of both Dektol and D76 on fleabay that worked perfectly. Until I figure out what to replace these two developers w/ in the future, I buy only the canned stuff. By the by, Mel Pierce sold me the bad D76. After a rough start and a 'lil foot shuffling they did refund my money, and said that Kodak is sending replacements for their stock. It was good doing business w/ them, but it was unpleasant using these two Kodak products which have never, ever, been bad. Now that level of trust is gone. Things change, and there are other developers.

grat · Apr 14, 2021

The replacement D76 I received was fine.

Out of paranoia, however, I transferred it to a vacuum-sealed bag. Seems to have held up with no browning.

StepheKoontz · Apr 14, 2021

They responded quickly to my request at kodakpaperchem@pro.sinopromise.com with the offer to replace my D76.

Like someone else posted, this made me look at a bag of Dektol in the same packaging, that I now see also looks super dark brown. I replied, asking about the Dektol with all the packaging info. I'll report back.

mklw1954 · Apr 7, 2022

Kodak had sent me replacements for two bags of D76 that were bad (brown), each with an expiration date of April 2023. When I went to make a batch today, both were bad - they had absorbed moisture and the power had hardened and you could see it was brown. Since Kodak no longer knows how to package their chemicals,, I'm done with them.

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