Kodak Commits to Keeping Harrow Plant OPEN

[Roger Cole]

Ektachrome would be awesome especially if we could get E100G and a 400 speed film now that Provia 400X is going away. And if slide film is still as popular in Europe as I read on here, that just might, maybe, be possible, unlike things like Ektalure and Panalure that are just pipe dreams some of us are indulging.

 

[RattyMouse]

Ektachrome would be awesome especially if we could get E100G and a 400 speed film now that Provia 400X is going away. And if slide film is still as popular in Europe as I read on here, that just might, maybe, be possible, unlike things like Ektalure and Panalure that are just pipe dreams some of us are indulging.

I still see Kodak E6 films in the shops here in China. I never checked the dates so I dont know if they are expired or not. But most of the film stores in the mall I go to have Ektachrome displays well stocked.

 

[RattyMouse]

I don't blame you a bit. We have an over-abundance of absurdity around here. I'm afraid we might be pinned for the count. You might want to use a little tenderizer when you broil that power cord. Easier to chew.

Thanks, but we'll just stick to eating the bread, thank you!

 

[Roger Cole]

I still see Kodak E6 films in the shops here in China. I never checked the dates so I dont know if they are expired or not. But most of the film stores in the mall I go to have Ektachrome displays well stocked.

It's definitely not made anymore. What you see is remaining stock. I'm not sure how old that would be. I still have some of the E100G I stocked up on. I can check the dates on that as it's probably the last made, but it's downstairs in the refrigerator. I'll check when I get a chance.

 

[railwayman3]

It's the Cadmium salts that are banned, that's why NiCd batteries are no longer made, Kodak was the last of the major manufacturers to use Cadmium in a warm tone paper.

Ian

Not doubting you, but some artists' paints definitely contain Cadmium, e.g. http://www.winsornewton.com/main.aspx?PageID=269

Presumably there are differences in toxicity of different cadmium compounds, as I'd imagine that a large tube of artists' colour would contain a lot more cadmium than
the thin emulsion in a packet of photo paper ?

 

[railwayman3]

Lighten up. We can all dream. They aren't going to make some product only seven of us want and endanger the rest of the company.

I agree. I had a great dream last night that I was printing 10x8 glass plate negatives onto POP with beautiful results. And the plates and paper had been delivered by fairies riding on a unicorn. Like Kodachrome, HIE and numerous other products, it was fun while it lasted.

But today I'm happy to read that small piece of positive news of Harrow, and that we can all still dream otherwise life would be very dull.

 

[PKM-25]

I find life dull only if I sit around on the internet all day and don’t get out and make new photos happen.

It goes almost without fail in a great many threads about Kodak, people start chiming in not about supporting them in making great new images on current Kodak films but pining for what is gone and is never coming back….over and over and over. It is by far one of the worst things about this very forum, it happens a lot less on other ones probably because the demographic is a lot younger. And speaking of young people, they love what they are able to do on current Kodak films, often show a ton more talent than I see here and no, not just the Hipster-Lomo crowd.

I just don’t get it, if someone posted in 3 previous threads that they want Ektachrome back, why do we have to keep hearing in the NEXT 3??? I don’t care anymore if you want to dream about materials, MY dreams are to be making better and better images on CURRENT and PROFITABLE Kodak films and getting more young people into realizing their talents with those same films.

This insistence on pining for materials that are not coming back is not moving anything forward…in fact, I think it does more harm than good.

 

[AgX]

Not doubting you, but some artists' paints definitely contain Cadmium, e.g. http://www.winsornewton.com/main.aspx?PageID=269

Presumably there are differences in toxicity of different cadmium compounds, as I'd imagine that a large tube of artists' colour would contain a lot more cadmium than
the thin emulsion in a packet of photo paper ?

Cadmium is prohibited in the EU (amongst other) for series products. Which photographic paper is, a artist painting is not...

But to my understanding a bottled paint is a series product too.

Furthermore one could divide between the absolute amount of cadmium set out via a certain product and the amount a single customer is exposed to (a painting versus a photography).

 

[Ian Grant]

Not doubting you, but some artists' paints definitely contain Cadmium, e.g. http://www.winsornewton.com/main.aspx?PageID=269

Presumably there are differences in toxicity of different cadmium compounds, as I'd imagine that a large tube of artists' colour would contain a lot more cadmium than
the thin emulsion in a packet of photo paper ?

Emulsions contained highly toxic Cadmium salts usually halides, artists paints contain a stable Cadmium sulphide/selenide salt, it's related to our use of Sulphide and Selenium in toning for archival processing.

Ian

 

[AgX]

German law does not differenciate between Cadmium compounds.

 

[Ian Grant]

German law does not differenciate between Cadmium compounds.

It's an EU Directive and the paints are supplied in Europe so there must be a differentiation between the salts and there uses. In fact for certain uses Cadmium based paints are exempt as there's no viable alternatives and that includes artists paints but restricts their use as pigments in many materials. I had a brewing bin with cadmium (early 1970s) an that could leach out so I always used a safe liner.

Ian

 

[kb3lms]

Ektachrome would be awesome especially if we could get E100G and a 400 speed film now that Provia 400X is going away. And if slide film is still as popular in Europe as I read on here, that just might, maybe, be possible, unlike things like Ektalure and Panalure that are just pipe dreams some of us are indulging.

Once the Alaris folks get themselves up and running, I really hope they would be willing to do occasional runs of films such as E100G. It's kind of a hope of mine. They could even sell them through outfits like Lomography or insist on pre-orders. If a market could be found to make a few runs of the Lomo Purple film, I would think that an E-6 film ought to be possible.

For example, maybe they could make a batch every 18 or 24 months. You pre-order or buy when it is available or miss the boat, like Ilford does with the custom format runs.

 

[Roger Cole]

I find life dull only if I sit around on the internet all day and don’t get out and make new photos happen.

It goes almost without fail in a great many threads about Kodak, people start chiming in not about supporting them in making great new images on current Kodak films but pining for what is gone and is never coming back….over and over and over. It is by far one of the worst things about this very forum, it happens a lot less on other ones probably because the demographic is a lot younger. And speaking of young people, they love what they are able to do on current Kodak films, often show a ton more talent than I see here and no, not just the Hipster-Lomo crowd.

I just don’t get it, if someone posted in 3 previous threads that they want Ektachrome back, why do we have to keep hearing in the NEXT 3??? I don’t care anymore if you want to dream about materials, MY dreams are to be making better and better images on CURRENT and PROFITABLE Kodak films and getting more young people into realizing their talents with those same films.

This insistence on pining for materials that are not coming back is not moving anything forward…in fact, I think it does more harm than good.

Ok, ok, Ektar is fantastic! Which it is. I know not everyone agrees but I love it.

But dagnabbit I just wish I could print it on cut sheets of Kodak RA4 paper, and in black and white on Panalure...

 

[DREW WILEY]

Cadmium is a massive problem, particularly at the manufacturing stage where it might be handled in volume. Entire city blocks in this area, where there used to be paint factories using lead and cadmium pigments, are totally sealed off under concrete slabs, which it is illegal to even drill a hole into without a hazmat permit. I know artists whose health is ruined for life by carelessly tooling oil pigments containing these ingredients with their bare fingers. Any art product involving cadmium is now illegal to make in the EU, and the US is following suit. Ironically, there was a method of vacuum-deposition coating cadmium pigment with clear titanium which renders it inert to humans, developed in Germany, but since the raw material is banned, there is no way of marketing it. NiCad batteries are also slowly being phased out. The toning characteristics of certain classic black and white papers allegedly depended on a bit of cadmium in the emulsion, including Portriga.

 

[AgX]

Drew, have a look at that data sheet linked in post #30: it is a EU company

 

[MDR]

The use of paints and the fabrication of artist product containing cadmium is not completely prohibited. Look up Kremer Pigmente for instance. It may only be sold to professional conservators and restorers to be used on historical significant work but it's not completely outlawed. Also look at pottery stuff a lot of things that require a Giftschein in Germany are available in pottery stores to make glazes and such.

 

[AgX]

It seems the clue (at least in the german law) lies in the meaning of the words "painters-paint" and "varnishes" which are prohibited (from a concentration of 0.01% onwards).

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I want Kodak to promise to make Tri-x and Tmax forever.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Thanks. My own connections are all to industrial pigments, and I'm getting feedback from various sources dealing with the EU in pigment
engineering. Maybe there are certain exemptions for "small quantity" products like fine artists might use, like that given here to the mfgs of
nail polish, which ironically happens to contain a lot of ingredients banned even from art stores, and which are classified as toxic carcinogens
in any other context. I've been fishing around for true process pigments more transparent than those available today, and now understand
some of the technical and legal hurdles worldwide, at least any part of the globe with the technical muscle to hypothetically pull it off. There
is quite a bit of interest in these for the auto and wood finishing industry as well (I specialize in the latter), so I have good connections.

 

[MDR]

Drew here's a link to the US branch of Kremer Pigments http://www.kremerpigments.com/ and one for the EU in English http://kremer-pigmente.de/en

 

[Alan Johnson]

Earlier this year I went to the (small) Kodak display at Harrow museum. IIRC one of the display boards told the story of how in the distant past the plant was not very well run and Mees (IIRC) had to come over from the US and sort things out.
I also called in at the security gate of the Kodak Harrow plant and asked if they ever had open days but they do not.

 

[Ian Grant]

To avoid a possible misunderstanding: Mees had nothing to do with the Harrow plant.

Mees was head of Research at Eastman Kodak from 1913 later a Director of Eastman Kodak (1923) and and a Vice President (1932).

He formerly worked at and was a Director of Wratten & Wainright (1906-12) which Eastman Kodak took over (and merged with Kodak Ltd, Harrow)at Mees insistence before he & Shepperd would join Eastman Kodak. The Rochester and Harrow Research facilities were essentially built around the former Wratten research staff.

This meant that Mees had very close links with Harrow and as a senior Director/Vice President would have been returning to visit the UK on occasions.

Ian