Kodak Colorplus 200

[miha]

Well let's not forget there are Gold 200, Color Plus 200 and Pro Image 100 in the lower speed segment and there is Ultra Max 400 in the upper speed amateur segment alone.

 

[Arcadia4]

Well lets not forget kodak offer 4 no c200iso CN products;
Consumer Value - Colorplus 200 - more muted colours than gold , strong brown/yellows 80s holiday tan. A bit grainer than gold 200 or less suited to scanning.
Consumer std - Gold 200 - saturated colours slightly golden tones. More punch than colorplus.
'Pro' Value - ProImage 100 (c 160 ISO) selected markets, gold grain but with a neutral color palette. Now in europe!
Pro std - Portra 160 - finer grain, vision tech, neutral colors, lower contrast.

The first 3 are all versions of kodak consumer emulsions, of different dates. I am guessing in reality all 4 products are >95% the same but the different results show that they are all different products (like humans sharing 99% of dna with chimps). We could speculate about the size of these coatings vs say Ektachrome. Of these colorplus has no datasheet so no specific requiremements other than CN 200 iso so can be whatever kodak want it to be at a given time, so perhaps there are odd batches where they ran out of VR 200 and substituted something else..

Trendland - I think we need to see some pictures of people in autumnal landscapes! to see if we agree with the comparison to which you refer...and any 'special' batches on sale?

Price wise there is an interesting relationship of roughly 2x each step from Colorplus (£2.5-4) - Gold (£4-6) - Portra (£8-9). In the UK I have noticed highstreet retailers just offering Colorplus in place of gold, given normal retail markup of c100% that means selling color plus costing £1.25 for £4.5!. It would be interesting to know if manufacturing wise the price difference is due to materials/wastage costs, lower volumes or higher margins given similar cost for base and packaging. Thoughts?

Colorplus was introduced c1990 in Europe to complete against fujifilms c200 offer. In the US Colorplus isnt on offer and Gold is the lowest cost option but then its sold for about 30% less than in Europe. Discuss!

Fuji of course have followed Trendlands logic and concluded that it isnt worth splitting the consumer 200 offer and axed Superia 200 in favour of retaining C200 (albeit updated in 2017 to be finer grained - with a datasheet!) presumably on basis of more volumes for the remaining stocks (i.e. superia 200 shooters split c200 or S400 but not to Gold 200). Axing c200 would be a different proposition given 100% price difference but if volumes drop maybe they will only offer S400 and Pro 400.

Colorplus isnt the only Kodak VR product on offer - A more interesting question is whether kodak colorplus vs lomography 100 are actually different products - VR100, VR200 or might be the same given CN latitude? Kodak wouldnt want a dependant producer competing in the same space so no lomo 200 in 135 (but ok for 110?).

 

[Photo Engineer]

Don't forget that the formulas for a number of Kodak C41 films were transferred to China in the early '90s. How about it being one of those?

PE

 

[trendland]

Don't forget that the formulas for a number of Kodak C41 films were transferred to China in the early '90s. How about it being one of those?

PE

..........you got it PE !!!!

with greetings


PS : Nevertheless : If the Chineese are not longer able to suply Kodak with " products " manufactured in the past ( not currently produced ) because it will be too expensive in licence production in too small scales in china - and Chineese stocks are comming to an end - Kodak will not cancel Colorplus 200 if Kodak has stocks of Gold 200. I guess that is still done from Kodak.
And I guess Kodak has actually a real big stock of Gold Masterrolls.

Regarding VR films wich were discontinued years ago, after Kodaks interims revival of VR - one can be 100% shure that the production was done in China. It isn´t BTW no indication if the package of that VR Films was signed with " Made in the US " because if the production of masterrolls was done in China and they were re-shipped to the US so the assembling and packaging in the US allowes Kodak to " name " that special China made films as " Made in the US......!!!

To make it a little more complicated here and because of the OP want to know what he is buying when he got Colorplus 200 - what about the following : Kodak produced several c41 amatheuric films in different world regions during the good old days because the imense demand was much too high to allowe Kodak an exlusive US production . And the licences Kodak sold to allowe a special production for the Chineese market concerned exactly Kodak VR formulas to that time.

If we would imagine there was a Gold ( in other markets Kodak had a different Name for it ) and there was indeed a Color Plus ( actually produced in the US ) AND for the Chineese people there was the oldschool VR film........?

Later Kodak stopped Colorplus production in the US and was supplied from China ( in the same way as it is done with some chemicals ) - I guess than we have it ....... !

So Colorplus is in the near of VR films but had an exclusive name ( due to US production ) this film was also the basis for retailer brands ( remember LOMO 800 ) later on it came back from China manufacturing ( with obviously varying quality in some parameters ) but Kodak had the
problem not to state "VR is back from China" - so they offered 3 amatheuric 200 films at the same time ( 2000 - 2005 )

- VR 200/400
-ColorPlus 200/400
-Gold200/400 ( Gold 100 was discontinued )

THEN there is just a small difference between VR/Colorplus ( concerning production site / quality control ) AND MEANWHILE ( therefore I am quite sure ) Kodak began to exchange the content of Colorplus200 film canisters ( with Gold films ).

PPS :It had to be " Gold " insite and not in the opposite direction because I don´t belive Kodak would trust to sell China made VR film-products higher priced as " Gold films " ...... and there is actually NO production of 2 amatheuric c 41 films - not in the US , No in China , not elsevere - belive me please.

It may be there will be a new production run somewhere in the future BUT THEN WE HAVE TO PAY MORE THAN 7USD a single 135 film and no matter for what film ( VR/ COLORPLUS / GOLD ) - so today all these products come from production wich was finished in the past
some years ago perhaps many years ago ( exeption is with proffessional c 41 films )

 

[miha]

Meanwhile there are four different amateur C41 films readily available...

 

[trendland]

Well lets not forget kodak offer 4 no c200iso CN products;
Consumer Value - Colorplus 200 - more muted colours than gold , strong brown/yellows 80s holiday tan. A bit grainer than gold 200 or less suited to scanning.
Consumer std - Gold 200 - saturated colours slightly golden tones. More punch than colorplus.
'Pro' Value - ProImage 100 (c 160 ISO) selected markets, gold grain but with a neutral color palette. Now in europe!
Pro std - Portra 160 - finer grain, vision tech, neutral colors, lower contrast.

The first 3 are all versions of kodak consumer emulsions, of different dates. I am guessing in reality all 4 products are >95% the same but the different results show that they are all different products (like humans sharing 99% of dna with chimps). We could speculate about the size of these coatings vs say Ektachrome. Of these colorplus has no datasheet so no specific requiremements other than CN 200 iso so can be whatever kodak want it to be at a given time, so perhaps there are odd batches where they ran out of VR 200 and substituted something else..

Trendland - I think we need to see some pictures of people in autumnal landscapes! to see if we agree with the comparison to which you refer...and any 'special' batches on sale?

Price wise there is an interesting relationship of roughly 2x each step from Colorplus (£2.5-4) - Gold (£4-6) - Portra (£8-9). In the UK I have noticed highstreet retailers just offering Colorplus in place of gold, given normal retail markup of c100% that means selling color plus costing £1.25 for £4.5!. It would be interesting to know if manufacturing wise the price difference is due to materials/wastage costs, lower volumes or higher margins given similar cost for base and packaging. Thoughts?

Colorplus was introduced c1990 in Europe to complete against fujifilms c200 offer. In the US Colorplus isnt on offer and Gold is the lowest cost option but then its sold for about 30% less than in Europe. Discuss!

Fuji of course have followed Trendlands logic and concluded that it isnt worth splitting the consumer 200 offer and axed Superia 200 in favour of retaining C200 (albeit updated in 2017 to be finer grained - with a datasheet!) presumably on basis of more volumes for the remaining stocks (i.e. superia 200 shooters split c200 or S400 but not to Gold 200). Axing c200 would be a different proposition given 100% price difference but if volumes drop maybe they will only offer S400 and Pro 400.

Colorplus isnt the only Kodak VR product on offer - A more interesting question is whether kodak colorplus vs lomography 100 are actually different products - VR100, VR200 or might be the same given CN latitude? Kodak wouldnt want a dependant producer competing in the same space so no lomo 200 in 135 (but ok for 110?).

......well I see you took great care to determinate several differences of that films Arcadia4. We should be sure that the different classification you mentioned here wasn`t caused from intention of Kodak. In form of intended differences. It is more a selection of produced films with different ( variing characteristics ) in such form that it was much more in comparison what Kodak would allowe with their strongest quality control during the past.
And that would speak for different production standarts as we know from "Chineese quality"

with regards

 

[trendland]

Meanwhile there are four different amateur C41 films readily available...

Do you perhaps remember Agfa Precisa CT 100 ? It was the same play " Agfa on the Box - different Fuji Provia versions inside "

with regards

 

[BrianShaw]

Trendland: “belive me please.”

“... AND MEANWHILE ( therefore I am quite sure ) Kodak began to exchange the content of Colorplus200 film canisters ( with Gold films ).“

For the most part, to the extent of my understanding of your posts, I can do that... but (post 29) the notion that Kodak “mixed and matched” canisters, labels, and the two film products just doesn’t align with my experience as a user.

In my experience both products were consistently true to what they purported to be, and that was verified by the film’s edge markings.

Perhaps if you could embellish this statement it would help us understand if it is fact versus speculation.

BTW, my recollection of the ColorPlus I was getting in US indicated made in Argentina. I no longer have any in the box so maybe my recollection is incorrect. But it sure never said made in US or China.

 

[trendland]

In any way Agfa Presisa 100 with Fuji inside was the better film in comparison of original Agfa - so it is also with Gold inside of Colorplus Canisters ( it may still depend on the region you buy it ) and the pricing ist still oK in 3 packs.

with regards

 

[miha]

Do you perhaps remember Agfa Precisa CT 100 ? It was the same play " Agfa on the Box - different Fuji Provia versions inside "

with regards

Agfa Precisa CT was a Leverkusen product that I remember very well. Fuji Provia went into AgfaPhoto boxes, and that happened much later, I remember this film as well. Harman is still doing the same with their Kentmere line of films.

 

[trendland]

Trendland: “belive me please.”

For the most part, to the extent of my understanding of your posts, I can do that... but (post 29) the notion that Kodak “mixed and matched” canisters, labels, and the two film products just doesn’t align with my experience as a user.

Yeah -I feel the same - but if you just notice the canister design/labeling one should feel : " There is obviously something in progress " - so it is : Kodak is selling different films in nearly same designed cans with different names .....

with regards

PS : The pricing in different regions is also " like a lottery "

 

[trendland]

Agfa Precisa CT was a Leverkusen product that I remember very well. Fuji Provia went into AgfaPhoto boxes, and that happened much later, I remember this film as well. Harman is still doing the same with their Kentmere line of films.

....you are right - but I mean this here :

with regards

 

[BrianShaw]

Yeah -I feel the same - but if you just notice the canister design/labeling one should feel : " There is obviously something in progress " - so it is : Kodak is selling different films in nearly same designed cans with different names .....

with regards

PS : The pricing in different regions is also " like a lottery "

Is this consistent with what you’re seeing in your part of Earth?

 

[trendland]

Trendland: “belive me please.”

“... AND MEANWHILE ( therefore I am quite sure ) Kodak began to exchange the content of Colorplus200 film canisters ( with Gold films ).“

For the most part, to the extent of my understanding of your posts, I can do that... but (post 29) the notion that Kodak “mixed and matched” canisters, labels, and the two film products just doesn’t align with my experience as a user.

In my experience both products were consistently true to what they purported to be, and that was verified by the film’s edge markings.

Perhaps if you could embellish this statement it would help us understand if it is fact versus speculation.

BTW, my recollection of the ColorPlus I was getting in US indicated made in Argentina. I no longer have any in the box so maybe my recollection is incorrect. But it sure never said made in US or China.

Yeah - Brian then you bought " real ColorPlus200 " ( what a pitty....) I got a couple of ColorPlus200 with no differences to Gold and I doubt in my Gold caisters is Chineese VR film from 2001 production...

As I mentioned before : It may be interims case it may depend to the region AND the time you bought it . But for sure you will not get real ColorPlus200 in the next future because also in the US the stocks will find an end.

And when you are smart and you agree that Gold is a better film you can buy it into the future in the US with the small price of ColorPlus. If you more like the different color palette of real Colorplus you should buy it imediately.

And if I fail you may buy " New Colorplus " in the US next but that would be to more than double pricing ( more expensive as we may imagine ).

Kodak should give it a new name then : " Vintage Color II ( 2020 production ) for just 13 bucks a roll.....

with regards

 

[trendland]

Is this consistent with what you’re seeing in your part of Earth?

Sorry I mixed it : My VR 200/400 films out of 2008 are EXACTLY with same styled labels as the todays Gold films out of your 3 pack on the first ( left photo ) - the todays Colorplus is slightly different from design - yes.

with regards

 

[trendland]

But Kodak don`t take care on corparate design any more today :

........?


with regards

 

[miha]

Found this, see post #126: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/question-about-kodak-gold-200.123709/page-6#post-1863686

 

[Agulliver]

I shoot more Color Plus than any other C41 film. I'd be disappointed if they put Gold 200 in the canisters instead of VR200.....because I happen to prefer the VR. To each their own but I've never liked the Gold colour palette.

The mostly yellow boxes seem to be an older design with the yellow/red box being the only version I can find on sale now. But both boxes contain the same canisters and film - which according to performance and edge markings is not Gold....it looks very much like VR used to. So the conclusion that it is Kodacolor VR is probably correct.

As for CT Precisa....the old Agfa did make it's own slide film before they spun off Agfa Photo who had to find an alternative...and eventually ended up selling Fuji Provia under the CT Precisa name. No mystery there.

I just checked the 9 boxes of Color Plus that I have outside the freezer, and they all look like the attached pics. As far as I can tell this is the current packaging, brought in around 2014/15 and the mostly yellow box came before. Made in USA (surely by EK) and distributed by Kodak Alaris. I do not recall seeing any Color Plus made elsewhere but I don't check every time.

 

[miha]

SNIP
As for CT Precisa....the old Agfa did make it's own slide film before they spun off Agfa Photo who had to find an alternative...and eventually ended up selling Fuji Provia under the CT Precisa name. No mystery there.

This is false. Agfa have been producing cour slide film since 1930s Their latest catalogue from early 2004 //www.tate.org.uk/download/file/fid/20941

 

[BrianShaw]

I have always been under the impression that at least one of the large NYC retailers, back when they were selling ColorPlus for $1.99 (and sometimes advertising it as “Gold”) may have been selling grey market product.

 

[Anon Ymous]

I shoot more Color Plus than any other C41 film. I'd be disappointed if they put Gold 200 in the canisters instead of VR200.....because I happen to prefer the VR. To each their own but I've never liked the Gold colour palette...

I really like ColorPlus 200. I like the strong yellows/browns and the overall warm bias. It has more pronounced grain than Gold 200, but it's not too grainy. Gold is ok for me, more saturated, but overall a nice film. Glad to see that I'm not the only one who likes ColorPlus 200, I think it's a very underappreciated film. Portra 160 is technically superior, but find it rather uninteresting. Well, perhaps I'm weird...

 

[BrianShaw]

Not weird at all. Your making a materials choice based on your artistic vision. I applaud that. Given the apparent sale volume of ColorPlus, you are not alone. The choice of which film to use is much more complex than price alone.

 

[Agulliver]

This is false. Agfa have been producing cour slide film since 1930s Their latest catalogue from early 2004 //www.tate.org.uk/download/file/fid/20941

How is it false? As far as I can tell we are saying exactly the same thing. (confused)

 

[miha]

Sorry Agulliver, I swear I read you wrote Agfa didn't make it's own slide film... mea maxima culpa. I should improve my reading skills.

 

[1kgcoffee]

I have never personally used colorplus 200, gold 200 is my mainstay. But from what I have seen colorplus has more of a 1980s pallette, something pleasing for certain subjects. Here is a Russian photographer who uses colorplus for most of his work in rural Russia:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139116825@N07/

It brings something special out in the photos with relaxed contrast and saturation. To my eye they are different. Whether the film is legacy stock cold stored, or fresh product doesn't change the obvious.