Kodak Clarification

[gr82bart]

Through one of my many contacts, here's a quote I received via e-mail from a fairly high level executive in Kodak:

I was asked to respond to your inquiry, since I am familiar with the issues you raise and would make a couple of key points.

First Antonio Perez has heard from many people like you who are loyal film photographers -- both consumers and professionals. Kodak continues to offer the widest lineup of films and we continue to invest in the business -- as evidenced by the fact that a number of products carry "new and improved" labels because of our investment. We will continue to respond to the market and that market remains an attractive one, even as we reduce costs and cut back production in the face of the reality of lower demand for our traditional products.

Regarding the statement correctly attributed to Mr. Perez, it obviously has been taken out of context. Today, in fact, Kodak is a heavily digital company, as revenues in these businesses, both consumer and professional, now surpass our traditional photo business. But in many ways, the businesses are also complementary and do work closely together. Mr. Perez was simply reflecting the need to move into businesses that are growing, and we have obviously been successful in doing so.

Again, many thanks for your comments. You can be assured that we all this feedback from consumers very seriously.

Regards, Art.

 

[BradS]

Wow, A personal reply from the great yellow godfather...cool!

Good to see this kind of thing. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

Wow, Kodak is subscribing to APUG! Who knew?

That's really good news, thanks a million for posting this, Art.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Wow, Kodak is subscribing to APUG! Who knew?

That's really good news, thanks a million for posting this, Art.

I don't know how closely they follow APUG, but over on filmshooting.com, which caters to Super-8 and other small gauge cine shooters, they have a representative--John Pytlak--who is active, answers questions, and fields product requests in the way Simon Galley does for Ilford here. Kodak also takes out full page ads in small magazines like _Super-8 Today_. It would be nice if there was someone from the still film side at Kodak who could play a similar role on APUG.

 

[eddym]

No offense, Art, but I really don't see what that "clarified," except that maybe Kodak execs know how to try to pacify customers who complain. What, for example, does "we [take?] all this feedback from consumers very seriously" mean?

 

[PHOTOTONE]

I'm guessing that they appreciate the feedback, but it needs to be reflected in sales for the products to continue on in the long haul.

 

[Jerry Thirsty]

"-- as evidenced by the fact that a number of products carry "new and improved" labels because of our investment. "

So they've invested in some new packaging designs? Wow, that makes me feel so much better!

 

[Helen B]

Jerry,

There are new and improved products inside that packaging. And they do continue to produce the widest range of film.

Best,
Helen

 

[Photo Engineer]

That 'new and improved' includes 2 electron sensitization which has given another 10 years of life to motion picture by ratcheting up quality a notch against digital. It took that many years of research as well to get it out there.

I might add that Kodak is advertizing and sponsoring a Portra contest over on PN (or they were a few weeks back when last I saw it).

PE

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

I don't know how closely they follow APUG, but over on filmshooting.com, which caters to Super-8 and other small gauge cine shooters, they have a representative--John Pytlak--who is active, answers questions, and fields product requests in the way Simon Galley does for Ilford here. Kodak also takes out full page ads in small magazines like _Super-8 Today_. It would be nice if there was someone from the still film side at Kodak who could play a similar role on APUG.

Well, it looks like somebody has now an assignment... Sean?

 

[Curt]

No offense, Art, but I really don't see what that "clarified," except that maybe Kodak execs know how to try to pacify customers who complain. What, for example, does "we [take?] all this feedback from consumers very seriously" mean?

__________________

I agree.

Art this isn't any different than the same line they shot my way after I sent an inquire letter and received an answer the tells me what they think I want to hear.

There is absolutely nothing new or clear here.

 

[Uncle Bill]

Art's recent quote goes to prove Eastman Kodak's Corporate Affairs/Communications/Public Relations needs some major fixing. Regular clarification to a public ( a PR term for a specific audience which we are one of) is a symptom of a far bigger problem in the company's marketing, branding and dealing with the outside world in general.

Contrast that with Ilford with Simon Galley actively participating on APUG and if you look on Ilford's website, there is a page for news, you don't see that on the Kodak sites. To go deeper Ilford knows what it is all about as a company and articulates it in a clear, concise manner.

What is the result, photographers have the awarness that Ilford's around for the long haul and will be more pre-disposed to buy Ilford products to support their business/hobby.

Kodak should be a case study for a marketing communications/public relations class on how not to communicate with all their publics.


Bill

 

[Lopaka]

Kodak should be a case study for a marketing communications/public relations class on how not to communicate with all their publics.
Bill

Agreed. When they have to say that their boss's comments were taken out of context, you know they are fighting a forest fire with a hand fire extinguisher.

Bob

 

[sergio caetano]

Forget Kodak. They are not with us anymore. Buy from who are.

 

[JLP]

Unfortunately, big cooperates speaks politically correct and thereby say nothing.
As long as there's good products coming out from Kodak and there is, it is unfair to say that they don't exist anymore. The customer dialog does not exist but did it ever?

jan

 

[gr82bart]

You guys slay me. Too funny.

Explain to me why the head or any executives of a huge multinational like Kodak should even bother with us? We're 18,000 (max-possible) film users out of tens of millions, maybe less than 1% of all potential film users - and hostile to Kodak at that. So why would they feel welcome here?

Reading all these posts, I certainly could see why they would think APUG is a place for anti-Kodak zealots.

Regards, Art.

 

[Rolleiflexible]

and hostile to Kodak at that.

Take it back, Art! I love Kodak! The day Tri-X dies is the day I put my cameras away. Sanders.

 

[JLP]

Can't do that Sanders! We need your art here at APUG
But, i agree we can't let Tri-X die... and other great Kodak products. (Analog)


jan

 

[HerrBremerhaven]

You guys slay me. Too funny.

Explain to me why the head or any executives of a huge multinational like Kodak should even bother with us? We're 18,000 (max-possible) film users out of tens of millions, maybe less than 1% of all potential film users - and hostile to Kodak at that. So why would they feel welcome here?

Reading all these posts, I certainly could see why they would think APUG is a place for anti-Kodak zealots.

Regards, Art.

I definitely agree with that assessment. Some (outside APUG) might even consider APUG the radical fringe, so why would a company put itself, or one of its' employees, in the line of possible attack?

All fine and good to support Ilford, and I do use lots of HP5+, but last I checked Ilford do not make any colour films. It does often seem that APUG is heavily B/W films biased, but there are fewer colour films companies than B/W films companies. Shouldn't we support continued production of colour films?

There is also the somewhat invisible side of Kodak and Fuji. Both companies place ads in PDN (Photo District News) and a few other publications for their film products. Yes, both have largely abandoned Pop Photo and similar publications, but those more consumer magazines are more biased to computer users with cameras. Another realm many amateurs never see is that both Kodak and Fuji have teams of people visiting pro labs around the US. There have been many times I got samples of films from these reps, and was given product literature with information on new products. This is not traditional advertising, and not geared towards consumers, but it shows that both companies are still marketing their colour films, especially transparency films.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
Dead Link Removed

 

[copake_ham]

I definitely agree with that assessment. Some (outside APUG) might even consider APUG the radical fringe, so why would a company put itself, or one of its' employees, in the line of possible attack?

All fine and good to support Ilford, and I do use lots of HP5+, but last I checked Ilford do not make any colour films. It does often seem that APUG is heavily B/W films biased, but there are fewer colour films companies than B/W films companies. Shouldn't we support continued production of colour films?

There is also the somewhat invisible side of Kodak and Fuji. Both companies place ads in PDN (Photo District News) and a few other publications for their film products. Yes, both have largely abandoned Pop Photo and similar publications, but those more consumer magazines are more biased to computer users with cameras. Another realm many amateurs never see is that both Kodak and Fuji have teams of people visiting pro labs around the US. There have been many times I got samples of films from these reps, and was given product literature with information on new products. This is not traditional advertising, and not geared towards consumers, but it shows that both companies are still marketing their colour films, especially transparency films.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
Dead Link Removed

I agree with Gordon who agrees with Art.

Sometimes I think folk here actually want Kodak to cease making film just so they can say: "See, I told you so!".

The problem with that is that it is really just cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Other than perhaps "closure", exactly in what way will film photographers benefit if Kodak does give up traditional photography?

DISCLAMER: No, I don't work for them, don't own stock in them and while I use their products, I use the products of other manufacturers also.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I agree with Gordon who agrees with Art.

Sometimes I think folk here actually want Kodak to cease making film just so they can say: "See, I told you so!".

The problem with that is that it is really just cutting off your nose to spite your face.

More like shooting themselves in the head! If they shot themselves in the foot they would limp around and blame the gun and ammo manufacturers!

I think that these anti-Kodak folks are just a bunch of attention whores.
It is easy to tear down a company, but I don't see them marketing a better product!

No offense to legitimate complaints about companies discontinuing a film product or size. This is aimed at the ranters who just fill up the bandwidth with the same repetitive crap.

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

Sometimes I think folk here actually want Kodak to cease making film just so they can say: "See, I told you so!".

I agree with Georges who agrees with Gordon, etc.

It's a tired trope here to say "getting rid of the yellow father" or whatnot. Despite their PR dept not being hip enough to film for us, despite their CEO seeming to live on another planet, they are still producing excellent products, B&W and most importantly color. Some of us will just never like the color rendition of Fuji films, it's as simple as that.

Kodak isn't a dirty word for which one should wash their mouth after pronouncing. It makes me cringe to see people doing the "de-kodakification" of their darkroom on ideological rather than practical principles.

We would never have mass photography without a huge militaro-industrial complex in the first place, so making someone the "good guys" versus the "bad guys" in film production is just plain boyscout wishful thinking.

It's been said over and over again that maybe Kodak could benefit from some PR rep surfing the net forums like Simon, and David Goldfarb said in another thread that there is one doing so in 8mm forums. Who will make that happen for still photo on APUG? Why do we keep prentending to give the finger to The Man by spiting Kodak?

 

[Photo Engineer]

APUG does seem hostile to Kodak.

The overwhelming tone is anti-Kodak and has been for quite some time.

I agree with the comment that people seem to want to see Kodak leave analog so they can say "I told you so". How many of you would work for little or no pay? Kodak will not and when customers go to less expensive products, then Kodak stops making theirs.

Remember that many of these smaller companies did not have to do R&D on Dektol, HC110, XTOL, Liquid Fix et. Kodak published formulas for many of these and now they are being produced by others with no overhead for the R&D that made them possible.

Oh well, perhaps my comments are useless in this venue. BTW, I am probably the only person on APUG who has spoken to Antonio Perez face to face and addressed the issue of analog photography.

So...

Anyhow. Have a nice day.

PE

 

[JLP]

Oh well, perhaps my comments are useless in this venue.

Don't think they are PE, your insight and experience get's at least my respect and i could not agree with you more.
I have and will continue to praise the Kodak products that i buy and use cause i can't find anything better.
Those of us who do like the products just need to speak up and get over this "Bad boy using Kodak" attitude and turn the threads bashing Kodak into the oposite.


jan

 

[BradS]

Yeah, I too find it difficult to understand peoples' motivation for Kodak bashing. I mean, if you don't like their products or, their prices....fine. Go use something else. I think Kodak's traditional products are first class.

Ron, I personally find your insight, stories, experience and expertise enormously valuable, interesting and engaging. I count you among a handful of participants on this venue in this category. Just thought you should know.