Kodak Alaris responses and dispatches

[kb3lms]

So, I'll keep protesting by buying them

And so will I, for now.

 

[fotch]

KA is certainly not down. They are projected to sell products for $1.5 bn this year.

But they are squandering their film legacy and flipping off photographers.

That's something worth protesting about, especially if you're a film photographer.

They actually flipped you off? Imagine that. You should of got a picture of that.

 

[fotch]

And so will I, for now.

+1

 

[Jaf-Photo]

They actually flipped you off? Imagine that. You should of got a picture of that.

Psst, pay attention, they are flipping you off too

 

[Película]

I guess I don't really quite understand the point of this strong of a reaction to a photo contest. Most people are using digital to make images these days. Nikon stopped accepting film based images for their big contest despite that they still list and SELL the Nikon F6 as a premier product http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Products/Product/Film-Cameras/F6.html

KA is invested in digital. And why not? It's what the majority of people are using these days. But they also sell film. Sure, it would make us all feel extra special if we were told by KA that we are extra special to them and thank you thank you thank you for using film. I'd like to see them mention film much more often, too. But I'm not going to stop buying their film products just because they aren't making me feel warm and fuzzy inside. To stop using their products just to 'get back at them' is only hurting me (and also all the other people who want to continue using Kodak film.) I'm not about to give up using Portra and Ektar and TMY just because I feel 'neglected' by some corporation. Yes, I would like them to promote the stuff better, but it's really not like they're committing atrocities or are unethical or are polluting the earth or any other crimes that make me feel that I should boycott them.

And Ilford has products I like, too. But I use them because I like them and not because one of their employees is on a forum. And while I do very much respect their attitude and commitment to film based photography, I also understand that it's their ONLY product. It's not a brand new company that has been formed to maintain a pension plan and that had received existing products (besides film) from a bankrupt corporation that owed them big money (and yes, I know the history of Ilford and Harman....)

The best thing to do about the future of film products is to buy film. And talk about film and using film in a positive manner. Anything else is pretty much futile.

Oh, and it's very possible that there were NO film entries in the latest photo contest. And if one wants to cherry pick information, then it's easy to show that KA isn't 'promoting' film. But they do have something called Film Friday on their blog: Dead Link Removed There are two ways to think about KA: 1) that they hate us and aren't interested in selling film 2) that Kodak film is still available and that KA is still committed to selling it providing we buy it and use it and that this is a good thing, not a bad thing (it could have been a lot worse!)

btw, the history of Kodak's Photo Contest is an interesting one: http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/...kodaks-early-days/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0 It was an important promo event when film was EK's mainstay product. Today film is just one of many products that KA has inherited.

 

[fotch]

Psst, pay attention, they are flipping you off too

No, they never flipped me off. :munch:

 

[Jaf-Photo]

No, they never flipped me off. :munch:

It's a figure of speech, my friend. We're all in this boat. Another figure.

 

[Película]

KA is not the only game in color film.......

Please let me know who else still sells 4x5 C-41 film.
Thanks.

 

[PKM-25]

I guess I don't really quite understand the point of this strong of a reaction to a photo contest. Most people are using digital to make images these days. Nikon stopped accepting film based images for their big contest despite that they still list and SELL the Nikon F6 as a premier product http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Products/Product/Film-Cameras/F6.html

KA is invested in digital. And why not? It's what the majority of people are using these days. But they also sell film. Sure, it would make us all feel extra special if we were told by KA that we are extra special to them and thank you thank you thank you for using film. I'd like to see them mention film much more often, too. But I'm not going to stop buying their film products just because they aren't making me feel warm and fuzzy inside. To stop using their products just to 'get back at them' is only hurting me (and also all the other people who want to continue using Kodak film.) I'm not about to give up using Portra and Ektar and TMY just because I feel 'neglected' by some corporation. Yes, I would like them to promote the stuff better, but it's really not like they're committing atrocities or are unethical or are polluting the earth or any other crimes that make me feel that I should boycott them.

And Ilford has products I like, too. But I use them because I like them and not because one of their employees is on a forum. And while I do very much respect their attitude and commitment to film based photography, I also understand that it's their ONLY product. It's not a brand new company that has been formed to maintain a pension plan and that had received existing products (besides film) from a bankrupt corporation that owed them big money (and yes, I know the history of Ilford and Harman....)

The best thing to do about the future of film products is to buy film. And talk about film and using film in a positive manner. Anything else is pretty much futile.

Oh, and it's very possible that there were NO film entries in the latest photo contest. And if one wants to cherry pick information, then it's easy to show that KA isn't 'promoting' film. But they do have something called Film Friday on their blog: Dead Link Removed There are two ways to think about KA: 1) that they hate us and aren't interested in selling film 2) that Kodak film is still available and that KA is still committed to selling it providing we buy it and use it and that this is a good thing, not a bad thing (it could have been a lot worse!)

btw, the history of Kodak's Photo Contest is an interesting one: http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/...kodaks-early-days/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0 It was an important promo event when film was EK's mainstay product. Today film is just one of many products that KA has inherited.

Not only this but KA has not held the reigns very long...
How long did it take for Ilford / Harman to settle into a place even remotely close to where they are now post re-organization? I guess I have far more patience & a brighter outlook than most.

 

[Película]

And stopping buying them would play right into the hands of KA, as they are obviously trying to kill these products.

Just curious, but why "try" to kill them? Why not just stop them right now? If they aren't wanting these products in their portfolio then wouldn't it be easy just to stop selling them immediately and get rid of any existing inventory? When Fuji killed Neopan 400, they just did it. Boom! Just like that. And it was no longer manufactured. Existing inventory flew off the shelves. Seemed easy for Fuji to kill their product. So why not for KA, if that's really what they want to do?

 

[RattyMouse]

Really, this whole thread comes under the category of "Would it Really Hurt Kodak Alaris to Say Something Nice About Film?"

For the obvious reasons, we here feel that it would not hurt them and in fact would only help. But, KA obviously thinks that it will hurt them or they already would have done so. They aren't going to say anything nice about film and, I guess, the only commitment you will see out of KA to the analog community is that they still bother to make film, which is after all, the only commitment that actually matters.

If you don't care for their business model/feelings/practices then the best thing you can do is vote with your wallet and move on to other products. KA has not had any problems having a recent round of price increases so you should not feel bad about doing what you need to do either! Turn about is fair play.

And, for the record, I don't care if it is the distributor cranking up prices on the retailer, the retailers themselves or KA doing it. A price increase is a price increase. KA is not the only game in color film and there are other high quality b/w products. Competition is still alive. A vote with your wallet still has a point to make.

Saying something good about film hurts KA? That says it all doesn't it. I agree with you 100%.

 

[Jaf-Photo]

Easy. Public relations. If they cancel film while people are still buying it, they will be the unreliable bad guys. This will affect their reputation and attempts to break into the digital market.

If they pretend like film doesn't exist and wait for dwindling sales before cancelling film, then the film photographers will be the unreliable bad guys. Kodak will be proved "right" as they cancel film and go for digital.

In the mean time, why not milk it some?

 

[RattyMouse]

I guess I don't really quite understand the point of this strong of a reaction to a photo contest. Most people are using digital to make images these days. Nikon stopped accepting film based images for their big contest despite that they still list and SELL the Nikon F6 as a premier product http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Products/Product/Film-Cameras/F6.html

KA is invested in digital. And why not? It's what the majority of people are using these days. But they also sell film. Sure, it would make us all feel extra special if we were told by KA that we are extra special to them and thank you thank you thank you for using film. I'd like to see them mention film much more often, too. But I'm not going to stop buying their film products just because they aren't making me feel warm and fuzzy inside. To stop using their products just to 'get back at them' is only hurting me (and also all the other people who want to continue using Kodak film.) I'm not about to give up using Portra and Ektar and TMY just because I feel 'neglected' by some corporation. Yes, I would like them to promote the stuff better, but it's really not like they're committing atrocities or are unethical or are polluting the earth or any other crimes that make me feel that I should boycott them.

And Ilford has products I like, too. But I use them because I like them and not because one of their employees is on a forum. And while I do very much respect their attitude and commitment to film based photography, I also understand that it's their ONLY product. It's not a brand new company that has been formed to maintain a pension plan and that had received existing products (besides film) from a bankrupt corporation that owed them big money (and yes, I know the history of Ilford and Harman....)

The best thing to do about the future of film products is to buy film. And talk about film and using film in a positive manner. Anything else is pretty much futile.

Oh, and it's very possible that there were NO film entries in the latest photo contest. And if one wants to cherry pick information, then it's easy to show that KA isn't 'promoting' film. But they do have something called Film Friday on their blog: Dead Link Removed There are two ways to think about KA: 1) that they hate us and aren't interested in selling film 2) that Kodak film is still available and that KA is still committed to selling it providing we buy it and use it and that this is a good thing, not a bad thing (it could have been a lot worse!)

btw, the history of Kodak's Photo Contest is an interesting one: http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/...kodaks-early-days/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0 It was an important promo event when film was EK's mainstay product. Today film is just one of many products that KA has inherited.

I didn't drop all Kodak films to "get back" at Kodak. I switched over to Ilford because I want film photography to have a future. See the difference? One company is determined to end their production off film while another is determined to keep it alive.

My switch to Ilford was done with a positive intent, not negative.

And I do buy more film. Every week. I try to shoot 10 rolls of film each week but even if I fall short of that number, I still buy 10 rolls. This weekend I bought 10 rolls of HP5 and one bottle of Ilford Rapid Fixer.

 

[PKM-25]

Easy. Public relations. If they cancel film while people are still buying it, they will be the unreliable bad guys. This will affect their reputation and attempts to break into the digital market.

If they pretend like film doesn't exist and wait for dwindling sales before cancelling film, then the film photographers will be the unreliable bad guys. Kodak will be proved "right" as they cancel film and go for digital.

In the mean time, why not milk it some?

Not going to work that way sir...

I have talked to both major film outlets in the U.S. as in B&H and Freestyle and sales are solid on nearly all Kodak films. There is a whole subset of talented shooters who not only are not on this site because they are busy shooting but also work in a grass roots mindset to get more people interested in shooting ALL films and sing Kodak's praises for still making and selling the fantastic films they do.

I do everything I can to help market all film related products because my career depends on it, including Kodak. Most real photographers don't waste time bashing a company that is still re-defining it self and still offers some of the best films in the world...most actual photographers "get it".

 

[Jaf-Photo]

Well, a lot of very famous actual photographers panicked when Kodak went into bankruptcy. They bought large quantities of Kodak film to keep their careers going.

I'm sure that if they paid more attention to what KA is doing and not doing, they would start buying large quantities again.

It's nice that you are promoting Kodak film, but I actually think that's a job that KA should be doing.

 

[Película]

Easy. Public relations. If they cancel film while people are still buying it, they will be the unreliable bad guys. This will affect their reputation and attempts to break into the digital market.

If they pretend like film doesn't exist and wait for dwindling sales before cancelling film, then the film photographers will be the unreliable bad guys. Kodak will be proved "right" as they cancel film and go for digital.

In the mean time, why not milk it some?

Sorry, but this doesn't make that much sense to me in a business world. It sounds more like some kind of conspiracy theory. I seriously doubt it's as complex as that.

It's EK who is manufacturing the film. And if the product keeps selling then it's in KA's interest to keep it. And if they ever do "cancel film" then the only people who will 'hate' them as the "unreliable bad guys" are the ones who already seem to hate them. The rest of the film users in the real world will move on. And nobody will be boycotting KA as a digital based company, except for those film users who seem to hate them already because they are feeling neglected. They can dump film anytime and still retain revenue and consumer loyalty. And that's because they're trying to build a consumer base on what is going to be profitable for them in the future since they have obligations to their parent company, the UK's Kodak Pension Plan.

In the meantime KA will sell film, and will keep selling it providing EK keeps making it.

I'm starting to get this odd feeling that the demise of film might end up coming from pessimistic film users and not film sellers.....

 

[Película]

One company is determined to end their production off film......

I think that this is an assumption not based on fact. While it may well be that the company's focus on their future lies elsewhere (unlike the other company whose sole products are in film photography), it can't be predicted that they are indeed intent on ending the sale of photographic film. And I'm glad that you are able to only use B+W film in your personal work, but I cannot.

But while we're speaking of 'KA determining to end film' has it occurred to anyone that predicting that KA is "out to kill its film protfolio" might be a detrimental thing in itself? People were bitching about film being dead almost a decade ago. And with all that pessimism floating around, lots of image makers fled from film. And now you're doing the same sort of prophecy; "KA is killing off their film line." And soon, that will be the word.....

KA doesn't need to end its film production, you're doing it for them.

 

[RattyMouse]

Sorry, but this doesn't make that much sense to me in a business world. It sounds more like some kind of conspiracy theory. I seriously doubt it's as complex as that.

It's EK who is manufacturing the film. And if the product keeps selling then it's in KA's interest to keep it. And if they ever do "cancel film" then the only people who will 'hate' them as the "unreliable bad guys" are the ones who already seem to hate them. The rest of the film users in the real world will move on. And nobody will be boycotting KA as a digital based company, except for those film users who seem to hate them already because they are feeling neglected. They can dump film anytime and still retain revenue and consumer loyalty. And that's because they're trying to build a consumer base on what is going to be profitable for them in the future since they have obligations to their parent company, the UK's Kodak Pension Plan.

In the meantime KA will sell film, and will keep selling it providing EK keeps making it.

I'm starting to get this odd feeling that the demise of film might end up coming from pessimistic film users and not film sellers.....

Companies drop products that sell *all the time*. Why? Because they determined that it was away from their core business. Just look at Eastman Kodak. They dropped a *profitable* product line because they did not want to sell it. KA shows all signs of not even wanting their film line. They fail to do almost anything to promote it. KA was likely forced to take the film line as a condition to get the rest of Kodak's digital business.

It is utterly laughable to think that Kodak's customer's are responsible for killing off their film line. That is simply false. The blame lies entirely with Kodak.

And for the record, I do *NOT* hate Kodak. At all. If I thought that they were committed to the future of film I'd be right there using their products. I *REALLY* like HC-110. That's the final product I have in house and will be the last to go (that liter lasts forever!). But go it must as I will not support, in any way, a company that is determined to either destroy or ignore, that what I care about so much, film photography.

 

[RattyMouse]

I think that this is an assumption not based on fact. While it may well be that the company's focus on their future lies elsewhere (unlike the other company whose sole products are in film photography), it can't be predicted that they are indeed intent on ending the sale of photographic film. And I'm glad that you are able to only use B+W film in your personal work, but I cannot.

But while we're speaking of 'KA determining to end film' has it occurred to anyone that predicting that KA is "out to kill its film protfolio" might be a detrimental thing in itself? People were bitching about film being dead almost a decade ago. And with all that pessimism floating around, lots of image makers fled from film. And now you're doing the same sort of prophecy; "KA is killing off their film line." And soon, that will be the word.....

KA doesn't need to end its film production, you're doing it for them.

I shoot a LOT of color film. A LOT. At least 50% of my photography is in color. I'm leaving for a 6 day trip to Rome in a few weeks and will be a huge amount of color film for this trip. All of it will be a mixture of 400H and Provia 100F and 400X.

 

[kb3lms]

But they do have something called Film Friday on their blog

OK, well that qualifies as saying something nice about film, even it it isn't exactly what many here want to hear.

that Kodak film is still available and that KA is still committed to selling it

again, which is the only commitment that really matters.

Sure, I'd love to hear about Ektar 400 coming out or a once every other year run of E100G but I think I would be waiting a pretty long time.

Please let me know who else still sells 4x5 C-41 film.

Good point. Sorry, I had not thought about that.

 

[PKM-25]

Companies drop products that sell *all the time*. Why? Because they determined that it was away from their core business. Just look at Eastman Kodak. They dropped a *profitable* product line because they did not want to sell it. KA shows all signs of not even wanting their film line. They fail to do almost anything to promote it. KA was likely forced to take the film line as a condition to get the rest of Kodak's digital business.

It is utterly laughable to think that Kodak's customer's are responsible for killing off their film line. That is simply false. The blame lies entirely with Kodak.

And for the record, I do *NOT* hate Kodak. At all. If I thought that they were committed to the future of film I'd be right there using their products. I *REALLY* like HC-110. That's the final product I have in house and will be the last to go (that liter lasts forever!). But go it must as I will not support, in any way, a company that is determined to either destroy or ignore, that what I care about so much, film photography.

RM, I don't think there is a single person on here that by now, does not know how you feel or where you are coming from, I think most get it. So this girl you have been dating called KA, she has ticked you off, not told you she loves you the way you want. She is not being affectionate even though she is still physically there for you. So you have broken up with her.

But here is the unhealthy thing with this breakup....Some of us still appreciate her being around, availible and will wait it out and see if she becomes more outspoken, more outwardly loving and we are sad you keep bashing her even though you have a new love.

I am speaking on behalf of us who absolutely love that in the year 2014, after going through hell in her own life that she is still here for us. And with that, I think it might be time for you to move on with your new love, sing her praises....and leave this poor, misunderstood girl alone.

What do you say my friend, can you do that, move on and let the rest of us enjoy her company while she is still around?

Please....?....seriously?

 

[kb3lms]

Easy. Public relations. If they cancel film while people are still buying it, they will be the unreliable bad guys. This will affect their reputation and attempts to break into the digital market.

Don't bet on it. They created, broke in, and chose not to complete in the digital (camera) market. They'd sh@$can film in a heartbeat if they thought they could get that revenue elsewhere, dump a manufacturing plant and can a bunch of employees. More likely, film is enough of a market to bring them revenue and profits that they aren't so ready to give up on yet. Maybe even post-movie film, who knows?

 

[AgX]

...This will affect their reputation and attempts to break into the digital market.. Kodak will be proved "right" as they cancel film and go for digital.

They are long time in that market.
With consumers and business.

 

[Película]

I shoot a LOT of color film. A LOT. At least 50% of my photography is in color. I'm leaving for a 6 day trip to Rome in a few weeks and will be a huge amount of color film for this trip. All of it will be a mixture of 400H and Provia 100F and 400X.

Get a few rolls of Kodak, and when you come back from your trip, you should post on KA's "Film Friday' section of their blog. They are looking for guest bloggers using film. One film user contacted KA for some Porta 120 film for a documentary project on Syrian families: Dead Link Removed

Maybe if you put together a proposal, KA will sponsor you and give you some film. They need people to post on Film Friday......

I personally think that this is being part of the solution instead of sitting on one's hands and complaining (I think that's just being part of the problem.) Anyway, it's worth a try. We can all be part of the positive 'revival' of film that is happening now, instead of whining about 'what could be' or 'what should be' or how we want KA to act and feeling sorry for ourselves because they aren't giving us the attention we seem to desire. I teach at a university art department and every quarter I have fresh new students excited to explore and use film as part of their tool kit. I cannot be pessimistic; that would be a huge disservice to them. And that is my being 'part of the solution.' I could tell them that Kodak sucks and whine about it, and tell them that they should never touch the stuff. But I honestly don't understand how that would contribute to anything positive about using film.

Sure, it would be nice if KA would do this or that in respect to film. And maybe they will. But in the meantime, let's stop telling the rest of the world that KA is simply out to kill their film products because we feel slighted by them, especially when it's purely an opinion. And hey, post on their 'Film Friday' blog. And post everywhere that Kodak film is great stuff and should be supported. I really don't understand doing otherwise....??

Keep using Ilford for your B+W if the products work for you. And if you truly prefer Fuji for color, then that's fine (although they've been 'killing off' a lot of their color emulsions....I don't see you hating them too badly....) But why not get another bottle of HC-110 if you like it so much. You're not gaining anything by not doing so. And you're not hurting KA, either. Since apparently film products are now going to be killed off by them anyway.

 

[Tom1956]

In this worry about the loss of film. I hasten to remind you that you can be out in the middle of a wheat field shooting an old farm house tomorrow, and an airplane might fall on your head, or you could step in an unmarked well and never be heard from again. But today you have film. I don't want to lose film into the dust bin of history in my lifetime. Might happen, might not. But at least you're on the right side of the ground, as my Pop says. Kodak dances to the tune of stock holders.