Kodak Alaris responses and dispatches

[AgX]

Kodak dances to the tune of stock holders.

This thread is about Kodak Alaris. And that Company does not have public shares.
But of course they dance to the tune of their owner. Even more than if on public shares.

 

[MattKing]

Not going to work that way sir...

I have talked to both major film outlets in the U.S. as in B&H and Freestyle and sales are solid on nearly all Kodak films. There is a whole subset of talented shooters who not only are not on this site because they are busy shooting but also work in a grass roots mindset to get more people interested in shooting ALL films and sing Kodak's praises for still making and selling the fantastic films they do.

I do everything I can to help market all film related products because my career depends on it, including Kodak. Most real photographers don't waste time bashing a company that is still re-defining it self and still offers some of the best films in the world...most actual photographers "get it".

Glad you are back Dan - good post.

 

[Tom1956]

This thread is about Kodak Alaris. And that Company does not have public shares.
But of course they dance to the tune of their owner. Even more than if on public shares.

Thanks AGX. Whoever owns it is certainly not particularly interested in what we have to say or not. He or they are all about the financial ledger.

 

[RattyMouse]

I personally think that this is being part of the solution instead of sitting on one's hands and complaining

That's a very disingenuous caricature you paint there. I am *NOT* sitting on my hands and complaining. I *AM* part of the solution. I shoot film. I'm a strong advocate for shooting film. I *BUY* film every week, along with chemicals.

If all I did was spout off about KA and did nothing else, you might be more accurate. But that is not the case and your positioning of my viewpoint falls completely false.

 

[MattKing]

Thanks AGX. Whoever owns it is certainly not particularly interested in what we have to say or not. He or they are all about the financial ledger.

Kodak Alaris is owned by the pension plan of current and retired employees of Kodak Limited, the former UK subsidiary of Eastman Kodak. It was set up to provide income and capital growth to support all those employees' pension entitlements. It also provides some continuity of employment for some formar Eastman Kodak employees.

I would hazard a guess that a fair few of them would prefer that Kodak film continue and prosper, but not if it will decrease the financial viability of the asset that supports their pensions.

 

[RattyMouse]

RM, I don't think there is a single person on here that by now, does not know how you feel or where you are coming from, I think most get it. So this girl you have been dating called KA, she has ticked you off, not told you she loves you the way you want. She is not being affectionate even though she is still physically there for you. So you have broken up with her.

But here is the unhealthy thing with this breakup....Some of us still appreciate her being around, availible and will wait it out and see if she becomes more outspoken, more outwardly loving and we are sad you keep bashing her even though you have a new love.

I am speaking on behalf of us who absolutely love that in the year 2014, after going through hell in her own life that she is still here for us. And with that, I think it might be time for you to move on with your new love, sing her praises....and leave this poor, misunderstood girl alone.

What do you say my friend, can you do that, move on and let the rest of us enjoy her company while she is still around?

Please....?....seriously?

Hello Dan,

I can see your viewpoint and can play along with your analogy by adding me own parts. Suppose I see this "girl" (whom I still love) shooting up drugs, hanging out with horrible people, destroying her life. Should I just sit by silently and let her kill herself or should I stand up and speak what I think is wrong and how to go about turning around? At the very least, cannot I say my extreme disappointment?

Companies can and do respond to criticism. To give one example, Fujifilm was absolutely buried in negative press when they released their X10 digital camera several years ago. This camera had a defective sensor that bloomed whenever pointed at moderately bright light. I bought one of these cameras and it was a mess. People posted in forums about how unhappy they were. Fujifilm ignored them. The postings grew more intense, driving in part a lot by a core group of Fujifilm fans, who defended Fujifilm and attacked anyone who dared express their unhappiness with their cameras. Regardless, the negativity increased. Fujifilm publicly mocked their customers with their Director of Marketing in an interview made fun of customers who complained of the problems with their cameras. That lit the fires even more and finally Fujifilm issued a firmware update. That did nothing to fix the camera and the bad press kept on piling on. Finally, Fujifilm issued a recall (silent) and replaced the sensor on anyone who wanted one.

Enormous pressure forced Fujifilm to act.

Different situation I know, but companies can and do hear their customers, *IF THEY SPEAK UP*.

No one forces anyone to read threads so I dont see the problem here. If people do not like the message then stop reading. There are all kinds of topics here at APUG that I dont have any interest in, so I dont read them. This is a forum for human beings (not robots) to express their thoughts and emotions, which I have done so. The end result may be nothing, but that is not the point. I post in forums because it is an outlet for my words.

If I were just showing up to slam Kodak and film in general, that would be different and cutting down the thread would be something the moderators should do.

I hope you understand Dan, we are on the same page, even if we differ in this one area.

As always, I wish you every possible success!

 

[PKM-25]

That's a very disingenuous caricature you paint there. I am *NOT* sitting on my hands and complaining. I *AM* part of the solution. I shoot film. I'm a strong advocate for shooting film. I *BUY* film every week, along with chemicals.

If all I did was spout off about KA and did nothing else, you might be more accurate. But that is not the case and your positioning of my viewpoint falls completely false.

RM, focus on the other things he wrote, they are *spot* sir, be a part of the positive film movement, be positive across the board in the spirit of this site. If you find you simply can not talk about KA in that manner, then please consider and respect the rest of us and let "her" go..let "her" be here for us and let some light fill the room.

I attached some photos for you and others to look at because photos are all that matter, the first one, the very lake I fell in love with my wife at, the entire take, all shot while on a road trip for 3 weeks. I shot some Efke IR820, APX25, Acros 100 and Tmax 400...

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

I didn't leave Kodak-branded products because EK/KA doesn't love me anymore. How insulting an observation. I left because they discontinued every one of their products I ever used. Color films, b&w films, b&w papers, chemistries. Every single product. Except for Tri-X 400.

And I'm not willing to lend credence to the ever-so-insistent pixie dust point-of-view that if I just keep using it, EK/KA will continue to make it. Please. Every other one of their products I continued using in the past is now long gone, never to return. I'm not an idiot. And neither were any of those others who also changed manufacturers for their continuing film supply needs.

I couldn't care less if EK/KA loves me. What I do care about is do they love their remaining film-based product lines? Love them enough to make any sort of forward-looking on-the-record commitment to those lines? Given MY past history with Kodak, that's what I am looking for from them.

I used Kodak products my entire life. Until Kodak told me I couldn't use them anymore. So I looked elsewhere. And found wonderful replacements. That's not feeling sorry for myself. That's dealing directly with hard reality.

Just what was I supposed to do? Give up film photography entirely because Kodak discontinued everything I used? Give it up when others were happily continuing to manufacture excellent film products? And in some cases better film products?

Ken

 

[RattyMouse]

RM, focus on the other things he wrote, they are *spot* sir, be a part of the positive film movement, be positive across the board in the spirit of this site. If you find you simply can not talk about KA in that manner, then please consider and respect the rest of us and let "her" go..let "her" be here for us and let some light fill the room.

I attached some photos for you and others to look at because photos are all that matter, the first one, the very lake I fell in love with my wife at, the entire take, all shot while on a road trip for 3 weeks. I shot some Efke IR820, APX25, Acros 100 and Tmax 400...

Gorgeous photography Dan. I wish I had 1% of your talent. Well done.

Question: Why do my needs get trashed? Why cannot people who don't like me or what I have to say simply not read my posts, my threads, etc?

There is unlimited room inside this forum. All viewpoints should be free to be expressed.

Why read a thread that you disagree with? I can't imagine why. I have almost no interest in LF photography so I dont read threads there. It would be a waste of my time to go in there and read, much less post.

Why do you waste your time?

 

[Prof_Pixel]

Why do you waste your time?

It's amusing watching people think what they say will have any impact on KA.

 

[PKM-25]

Why do you waste your time?

I don't waste it anymore, I just know my personal balance point in terms of forum participation.....6 weeks in Rome? I'm trying to get you fired up, take that film and rock it!

I will always suggest to you and others to keep it all positive, it makes an enormous difference in life and keeping film alive is no different.

I'm not telling you to not share your opinion, I am saying what I said a few posts back, we all get it, we all get Ken...but can we move on, rise above what is not in our control and work together as community of like-minded users of film?

Imagine what a positive move that would be. Pelicula is new member here and look at what he has taken the time to write.

Now come on folks, show everyone what we are *really* all about!

 

[RattyMouse]

It's amusing watching people think what they say will have any impact on KA.

Your extreme cynicism allows you to be easily amused.

 

[RattyMouse]

I don't waste it anymore, I just know my personal balance point in terms of forum participation.....6 weeks in Rome? I'm trying to get you fired up, take that film and rock it!

I will always suggest to you and others to keep it all positive, it makes an enormous difference in life and keeping film alive is no different.

I'm not telling you to not share your opinion, I am saying what I said a few posts back, we all get it, we all get Ken...but can we move on, rise above what is not in our control and work together as community of like-minded users of film?

Imagine what a positive move that would be. Pelicula is new member here and look at what he has taken the time to write.

Now come on folks, show everyone what we are *really* all about!

Just 6 days in Rome, not 6 weeks! I dont think I have the budget for film for 6 weeks in a country like Italy. Still, I intend to have a great time there. First trip ever to Italy and I hope to make the most of it.

I'm an extremely positive person. My personality is what got me THREE international assignments with 3 different companies. I'm a VERY easy going person, who is far more the diplomat than the ideologue. I keep getting chosen for these international jobs because I can work with people from very diverse backgrounds and not come away with an "us vs them" attitude, which is very common in my line of work.

So while being positive, I'm also not a person who lives in denial and when I see something I dont like, I express that in areas that are appropriate. I could go into every film forum here at APUG and rail and rail and rail, but I dont. I keep it very targeted, and very specific to the Industry forum. That's the right place for commentary about the film industry, both good and bad commentary. By using the appropriate forum, people who do not like to read such posts can easily avoid them. The situation should, with tolerance, allow for everyone to exist here.

Regarding my latest post, it was very much timed to a specific event: Kodak's blog and the photography contest. That showed (again) how utterly irrelevant film is to Kodak's messages today.

Had I not seen that, I would not have strolled into the Industry forum and posted some nonsensical rant about Kodak.

I hope it can be seen how very appropriate my use of this forum is. I'm a paying member and respect APUG's mission as well as facilitation of everyone's right to express their views.

 

[Tom1956]

Ratty Mouse, have you ever thought of becoming an importer-to-China for Kodak Alaris or Eastman Kodak, whoever they are now? Goodness knows, we import a lot of your country's goods over here. And many times we have nice regards for them. Perhaps you folks over there will hang up a big plywood "Buy Kodak Film" box above the local Chinese drug store. And Kodak will flourish, and we Americans will once again have secure jobs, homes, and families; like it use to be. Eastman Kodak was once a company of people who just loved making cameras and film for whoever wanted them. Why don't you go on a mission to China and do this thing? Sounds like win-win for everybody.

 

[RattyMouse]

Get a few rolls of Kodak, and when you come back from your trip, you should post on KA's "Film Friday' section of their blog. They are looking for guest bloggers using film. One film user contacted KA for some Porta 120 film for a documentary project on Syrian families: Dead Link Removed

Maybe if you put together a proposal, KA will sponsor you and give you some film. They need people to post on Film Friday......

I'm not interested in free film. Kodak needs revenue and profits. I can easily afford film so do not look for freebies or expired deals.

I teach at a university art department and every quarter I have fresh new students excited to explore and use film as part of their tool kit. I cannot be pessimistic; that would be a huge disservice to them. And that is my being 'part of the solution.' I could tell them that Kodak sucks and whine about it, and tell them that they should never touch the stuff. But I honestly don't understand how that would contribute to anything positive about using film.

The lack of rigor in your understanding is most alarming considering that you are a teacher. You cannot understand that someone wants a supplier devoted to their needs? You cannot understand how people want a supplier to provide with them guidance about the future of their supply of film? Really, this is beyond your understanding?

WHO here is saying "Kodak sucks"? Not me. Why do you force on me words that I do not speak? Why do that?

Sure, it would be nice if KA would do this or that in respect to film. And maybe they will. But in the meantime, let's stop telling the rest of the world that KA is simply out to kill their film products because we feel slighted by them, especially when it's purely an opinion. And hey, post on their 'Film Friday' blog. And post everywhere that Kodak film is great stuff and should be supported. I really don't understand doing otherwise....??

Keep using Ilford for your B+W if the products work for you. And if you truly prefer Fuji for color, then that's fine (although they've been 'killing off' a lot of their color emulsions....I don't see you hating them too badly....) But why not get another bottle of HC-110 if you like it so much. You're not gaining anything by not doing so. And you're not hurting KA, either. Since apparently film products are now going to be killed off by them anyway.

This really shows us the flaws in your credibility/knowledge of the facts. What did I do when Fujifilm discontinued REALA? Lamented bitterly, loudly, and often.

Your need to lie about me, or complete lack of knowledge about what I actually post about (notice that I am NOT calling you a liar, I am allowing for the possibility that you are ignorant of my posting history) shows really that you should not be posting at all in reference to my own writings.

I complained also very much about the loss of Astia and Neopan 400. Many times.

Finally, I won't be replacing my HC-110 with another bottle because I will only support film companies that i believe are committed to the future. It is my opinion that film is in a very perilous state now. If film can survive these times, then the future will be more secure. Every last dollar I spend is going to go towards a company that is committed to film and shows it. Kodak is *ENTIRELY* able to get my money, if they so choose. I enjoy Ektar film and have shot a few boxes of it, just to see what it's like.

I hope you do not mischaracterize my words in future posts.

 

[MattKing]

Ratty Mouse, have you ever thought of becoming an importer-to-China for Kodak Alaris or Eastman Kodak, whoever they are now? Goodness knows, we import a lot of your country's goods over here. And many times we have nice regards for them. Perhaps you folks over there will hang up a big plywood "Buy Kodak Film" box above the local Chinese drug store. And Kodak will flourish, and we Americans will once again have secure jobs, homes, and families; like it use to be. Eastman Kodak was once a company of people who just loved making cameras and film for whoever wanted them. Why don't you go on a mission to China and do this thing? Sounds like win-win for everybody.

I wonder what the distributor(s) with rights to the various markets in China would think about your idea Tom.

Somehow, I don't think they would be supportive.

 

[RattyMouse]

Ratty Mouse, have you ever thought of becoming an importer-to-China for Kodak Alaris or Eastman Kodak, whoever they are now? Goodness knows, we import a lot of your country's goods over here. And many times we have nice regards for them. Perhaps you folks over there will hang up a big plywood "Buy Kodak Film" box above the local Chinese drug store. And Kodak will flourish, and we Americans will once again have secure jobs, homes, and families; like it use to be. Eastman Kodak was once a company of people who just loved making cameras and film for whoever wanted them. Why don't you go on a mission to China and do this thing? Sounds like win-win for everybody.

I already have a full time job here in Shanghai. Plus, I'm not Chinese, can't speak the language, and so won't have a snowball's chance in hell to succeed in business here.

 

[Tom1956]

Rights belong to the guy who peddles the most film at the highest bid. Where's your ticker? Seen how we Americans are bidding up Chinese stock prices? Yahoo Finance has stock prices all day long, only a few seconds behind the online trade broker houses. No reason Ratty Mouse can't get in the fight with the big dogs.

 

[Tom1956]

Oh, that explains a lot. I watched my first Bruce Lee movie ever, last night. Never seen one. My Chinese isn't very good either. I know English fairly well, a little German maybe, and can make a dog sit, if he's not too ornery.
Your English is much clearer now. Regards.

 

[MattKing]

Rights belong to the guy who peddles the most film at the highest bid. Where's your ticker? Seen how we Americans are bidding up Chinese stock prices? Gayhoo Finance has stock prices all day long, only a few seconds behind the online trade broker houses. No reason Ratty Mouse can't get in the fight with the big dogs.

Most likely KA are locked into a distribution contract with just one entity. Certainly Eastman Kodak and its various subsidiaries were. As China is so huge, there might be more than one.

That certainly is the case with Ilford and most countries - one authorized importing distributor per country. Any one else who tries to buy from the source and sell into the retail market will be inducing a breach of contract, and be liable to be shut down.

Remember "grey market" merchandise. You don't see much of that anymore, because the distributors are very effective at controlling access to "brick and mortar" outlets.

 

[Tom1956]

Most likely KA are locked into a distribution contract with just one entity. Certainly Eastman Kodak and its various subsidiaries were. As China is so huge, there might be more than one.

That certainly is the case with Ilford and most countries - one authorized importing distributor per country. Any one else who tries to buy from the source and sell into the retail market will be inducing a breach of contract, and be liable to be shut down.

Remember "grey market" merchandise. You don't see much of that anymore, because the distributors are very effective at controlling access to "brick and mortar" outlets.

Matt, you're a straight shooting dude I'm not about to take an issue with. I hasten to remind you of Chicago's apparent longstanding reputation in "gray market" thuggery. China's wide open, and they can kick some serious financial a**.

 

[RattyMouse]

Most likely KA are locked into a distribution contract with just one entity. Certainly Eastman Kodak and its various subsidiaries were. As China is so huge, there might be more than one.

That certainly is the case with Ilford and most countries - one authorized importing distributor per country. Any one else who tries to buy from the source and sell into the retail market will be inducing a breach of contract, and be liable to be shut down.

Remember "grey market" merchandise. You don't see much of that anymore, because the distributors are very effective at controlling access to "brick and mortar" outlets.

My bottle of Kodak HC-110 says very clearly on the back, "For Sale in USA".

I guess I got a gray market bottle of developer.

 

[MattKing]

My bottle of Kodak HC-110 says very clearly on the back, "For Sale in USA".

I guess I got a gray market bottle of developer.

You may have.

Unless you bought it from a retailer in the USA.

There is no doubt though that the distribution of analogue photographic materials is woefully deficient - and not just for Kodak products.

 

[Tom1956]

It's all "gray market" The whole world is gray market, and the good lord saves. Have some faith, will ya? The US is a partly nationalized economy till we get rid of the Keynsians soon. Supply Side 101. Don't have a heart attack, Kodak film is still being made. It's a skeleton of a survivor, but some meat will grow on those bones.

 

[PKM-25]

RM, sorry you don't have 6 weeks but if it makes you feel any better it took me three weeks to shoot the 17 rolls that the photos I posted came from. But 6 days ought to be enjoyable, so enjoy it.

I dunno RM, I can't argue your point, but you seem angry about it by the way I am reading it on the web which is not always effective, certainly not tactile or personal. Let's say that despite how much a company is represented on APUG or not, KA, Fuji or Ilford, that requests, wishes or criticism probably don't make a difference in a business sense and like it or not, this is all business for these companies.

I ask my self, what am I trying to prove on here? What is the true value of any of this?....it allows people to express their opinion and or feelings. So it does not really change anything about the future prospects of film because we are not using it or printing it when we are typing here....double edged sword this here Internet.

So where does it go from here?....did it even go anywhere? I don't think so. In being purely self serving, I at least feel better in trying to get you to direct your energy elsewhere, I feel good in sharing some images I worked hard for, maybe they will inspire you or someone else...

But like you, I posted my insights and opinions on here for me.

So RM, for you....where does it go from here?
I'm logging out again, I'll be back in a couple months to give my opinion on this, maybe show some new images and to remind folks to be positive...