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And so will I, for now.
So, I'll keep protesting by buying them
KA is certainly not down. They are projected to sell products for $1.5 bn this year.
But they are squandering their film legacy and flipping off photographers.
That's something worth protesting about, especially if you're a film photographer.
And so will I, for now.
They actually flipped you off? Imagine that. You should of got a picture of that.
Psst, pay attention, they are flipping you off too
No, they never flipped me off. :munch:
KA is not the only game in color film.......
I guess I don't really quite understand the point of this strong of a reaction to a photo contest. Most people are using digital to make images these days. Nikon stopped accepting film based images for their big contest despite that they still list and SELL the Nikon F6 as a premier product http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Products/Product/Film-Cameras/F6.html
KA is invested in digital. And why not? It's what the majority of people are using these days. But they also sell film. Sure, it would make us all feel extra special if we were told by KA that we are extra special to them and thank you thank you thank you for using film. I'd like to see them mention film much more often, too. But I'm not going to stop buying their film products just because they aren't making me feel warm and fuzzy inside. To stop using their products just to 'get back at them' is only hurting me (and also all the other people who want to continue using Kodak film.) I'm not about to give up using Portra and Ektar and TMY just because I feel 'neglected' by some corporation. Yes, I would like them to promote the stuff better, but it's really not like they're committing atrocities or are unethical or are polluting the earth or any other crimes that make me feel that I should boycott them.
And Ilford has products I like, too. But I use them because I like them and not because one of their employees is on a forum. And while I do very much respect their attitude and commitment to film based photography, I also understand that it's their ONLY product. It's not a brand new company that has been formed to maintain a pension plan and that had received existing products (besides film) from a bankrupt corporation that owed them big money (and yes, I know the history of Ilford and Harman....)
The best thing to do about the future of film products is to buy film. And talk about film and using film in a positive manner. Anything else is pretty much futile.
Oh, and it's very possible that there were NO film entries in the latest photo contest. And if one wants to cherry pick information, then it's easy to show that KA isn't 'promoting' film. But they do have something called Film Friday on their blog: Dead Link Removed There are two ways to think about KA: 1) that they hate us and aren't interested in selling film 2) that Kodak film is still available and that KA is still committed to selling it providing we buy it and use it and that this is a good thing, not a bad thing (it could have been a lot worse!)
btw, the history of Kodak's Photo Contest is an interesting one: http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/...kodaks-early-days/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0 It was an important promo event when film was EK's mainstay product. Today film is just one of many products that KA has inherited.
And stopping buying them would play right into the hands of KA, as they are obviously trying to kill these products.
Really, this whole thread comes under the category of "Would it Really Hurt Kodak Alaris to Say Something Nice About Film?"
For the obvious reasons, we here feel that it would not hurt them and in fact would only help. But, KA obviously thinks that it will hurt them or they already would have done so. They aren't going to say anything nice about film and, I guess, the only commitment you will see out of KA to the analog community is that they still bother to make film, which is after all, the only commitment that actually matters.
If you don't care for their business model/feelings/practices then the best thing you can do is vote with your wallet and move on to other products. KA has not had any problems having a recent round of price increases so you should not feel bad about doing what you need to do either! Turn about is fair play.
And, for the record, I don't care if it is the distributor cranking up prices on the retailer, the retailers themselves or KA doing it. A price increase is a price increase. KA is not the only game in color film and there are other high quality b/w products. Competition is still alive. A vote with your wallet still has a point to make.
I guess I don't really quite understand the point of this strong of a reaction to a photo contest. Most people are using digital to make images these days. Nikon stopped accepting film based images for their big contest despite that they still list and SELL the Nikon F6 as a premier product http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Products/Product/Film-Cameras/F6.html
KA is invested in digital. And why not? It's what the majority of people are using these days. But they also sell film. Sure, it would make us all feel extra special if we were told by KA that we are extra special to them and thank you thank you thank you for using film. I'd like to see them mention film much more often, too. But I'm not going to stop buying their film products just because they aren't making me feel warm and fuzzy inside. To stop using their products just to 'get back at them' is only hurting me (and also all the other people who want to continue using Kodak film.) I'm not about to give up using Portra and Ektar and TMY just because I feel 'neglected' by some corporation. Yes, I would like them to promote the stuff better, but it's really not like they're committing atrocities or are unethical or are polluting the earth or any other crimes that make me feel that I should boycott them.
And Ilford has products I like, too. But I use them because I like them and not because one of their employees is on a forum. And while I do very much respect their attitude and commitment to film based photography, I also understand that it's their ONLY product. It's not a brand new company that has been formed to maintain a pension plan and that had received existing products (besides film) from a bankrupt corporation that owed them big money (and yes, I know the history of Ilford and Harman....)
The best thing to do about the future of film products is to buy film. And talk about film and using film in a positive manner. Anything else is pretty much futile.
Oh, and it's very possible that there were NO film entries in the latest photo contest. And if one wants to cherry pick information, then it's easy to show that KA isn't 'promoting' film. But they do have something called Film Friday on their blog: Dead Link Removed There are two ways to think about KA: 1) that they hate us and aren't interested in selling film 2) that Kodak film is still available and that KA is still committed to selling it providing we buy it and use it and that this is a good thing, not a bad thing (it could have been a lot worse!)
btw, the history of Kodak's Photo Contest is an interesting one: http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/...kodaks-early-days/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0 It was an important promo event when film was EK's mainstay product. Today film is just one of many products that KA has inherited.
Easy. Public relations. If they cancel film while people are still buying it, they will be the unreliable bad guys. This will affect their reputation and attempts to break into the digital market.
If they pretend like film doesn't exist and wait for dwindling sales before cancelling film, then the film photographers will be the unreliable bad guys. Kodak will be proved "right" as they cancel film and go for digital.
In the mean time, why not milk it some?
Easy. Public relations. If they cancel film while people are still buying it, they will be the unreliable bad guys. This will affect their reputation and attempts to break into the digital market.
If they pretend like film doesn't exist and wait for dwindling sales before cancelling film, then the film photographers will be the unreliable bad guys. Kodak will be proved "right" as they cancel film and go for digital.
In the mean time, why not milk it some?
One company is determined to end their production off film......
Sorry, but this doesn't make that much sense to me in a business world. It sounds more like some kind of conspiracy theory. I seriously doubt it's as complex as that.
It's EK who is manufacturing the film. And if the product keeps selling then it's in KA's interest to keep it. And if they ever do "cancel film" then the only people who will 'hate' them as the "unreliable bad guys" are the ones who already seem to hate them. The rest of the film users in the real world will move on. And nobody will be boycotting KA as a digital based company, except for those film users who seem to hate them already because they are feeling neglected. They can dump film anytime and still retain revenue and consumer loyalty. And that's because they're trying to build a consumer base on what is going to be profitable for them in the future since they have obligations to their parent company, the UK's Kodak Pension Plan.
In the meantime KA will sell film, and will keep selling it providing EK keeps making it.
I'm starting to get this odd feeling that the demise of film might end up coming from pessimistic film users and not film sellers.....
I think that this is an assumption not based on fact. While it may well be that the company's focus on their future lies elsewhere (unlike the other company whose sole products are in film photography), it can't be predicted that they are indeed intent on ending the sale of photographic film. And I'm glad that you are able to only use B+W film in your personal work, but I cannot.
But while we're speaking of 'KA determining to end film' has it occurred to anyone that predicting that KA is "out to kill its film protfolio" might be a detrimental thing in itself? People were bitching about film being dead almost a decade ago. And with all that pessimism floating around, lots of image makers fled from film. And now you're doing the same sort of prophecy; "KA is killing off their film line." And soon, that will be the word.....
KA doesn't need to end its film production, you're doing it for them.
But they do have something called Film Friday on their blog
that Kodak film is still available and that KA is still committed to selling it
Please let me know who else still sells 4x5 C-41 film.
Companies drop products that sell *all the time*. Why? Because they determined that it was away from their core business. Just look at Eastman Kodak. They dropped a *profitable* product line because they did not want to sell it. KA shows all signs of not even wanting their film line. They fail to do almost anything to promote it. KA was likely forced to take the film line as a condition to get the rest of Kodak's digital business.
It is utterly laughable to think that Kodak's customer's are responsible for killing off their film line. That is simply false. The blame lies entirely with Kodak.
And for the record, I do *NOT* hate Kodak. At all. If I thought that they were committed to the future of film I'd be right there using their products. I *REALLY* like HC-110. That's the final product I have in house and will be the last to go (that liter lasts forever!). But go it must as I will not support, in any way, a company that is determined to either destroy or ignore, that what I care about so much, film photography.
Easy. Public relations. If they cancel film while people are still buying it, they will be the unreliable bad guys. This will affect their reputation and attempts to break into the digital market.
...This will affect their reputation and attempts to break into the digital market.. Kodak will be proved "right" as they cancel film and go for digital.
I shoot a LOT of color film. A LOT. At least 50% of my photography is in color. I'm leaving for a 6 day trip to Rome in a few weeks and will be a huge amount of color film for this trip. All of it will be a mixture of 400H and Provia 100F and 400X.
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