Kodak Alaris responses and dispatches

pbromaghin · May 30, 2014

Hatchetman said:
Sales don't just happen. A business has to make them happen. There are many of us here who have run their own businesses, been in upper management of companies, or study business. We, in large part, have been baffled by KA's extremely poor sales/marketing/PR as it relates to consumer film products. They seem to do everything the "text book" tells you NOT to do.

BINGO!

Jaf-Photo · May 30, 2014

Xmas said:
C- marks in home work

KA have just extracted film from EK cause EK did not have negotiable asset to cover the pension fund debts.

If the assets were worthless in short term maybe it was a good deal if the assets were also worthless in longer time as well may be not?

KA are ex EK employees apart from CEO and any new blood.

Id say it was same old horses same old glue.

EK should have been able to keep the market share they had in 1950. They should not have wasted money on instance snaps, copied patented ideas and enabled a successor at the same time.

Fuji are selling instant and dcameras maybe Fuji got an A for their home work?

Correct. According to my homework the Kodak Alaris deal was made primarily to appease the UK regulator, who was threatening to close and liquidate the Kodak pension fund, for lack of funds.

Not surprising then that their business model seems like a bit of an afterthought.

There are some glimmers of hope though. The current president of personal imaging is an old chemical engineer from Rochester, so at least on that level there should be some understanding of traditional photography.

pentaxuser · May 30, 2014

Jaf-Photo said:
There are some glimmers of hope though. The current president of personal imaging is an old chemical engineer from Rochester, so at least on that level there should be some understanding of traditional photography.

Well, good for PE. No wonder we haven't heard a lot from him recently. Now we know this there's only one thing to do

All of APUG( that 69,000 of us) has to PM him with our views as to what he needs to do to rescue KA.

P.E. Escape across the 49th parallel is not an option. Bob Carnie and the RCMP have covered that bridge used in the Untouchables

You can face him or return and face Kevin and Sean - not APUGers as far as I know so might be harmless. There will be an APUG poll tomorrow to determine what we think your best option is

My vote is for a return to Kevin and Sean as the less dangerous option.

pentaxuser

RattyMouse · May 30, 2014

PKM-25 said:
It's that simple and thankfully most people on this site know this and just get on with their life enjoying the great craft of film photography instead of posting near-legion amounts of threads and posts complaining. In Ratty's case he has made it clear on numerous occasions that he can easily afford photography so why he does not just stock up and be happy baffles me and many others on here I suspect.

Most people on here have the common sense to know that KA is in effect no different than any other maker of film and is working within both the limits of a contracting marketplace and specific set of overhead requirements, just....like....Ilford who's rear end gets kissed constantly. If I never heard a peep out of Simon Galley again I would keep right on using Ilford products because I don't need my diaper changed like some on here do.

I think Sean out to ban these kinds of threads for at least 6 months, the fact they get closed really tells it like it is. In fact I will donate $500 to APUG if he does that.

Hello Dan,

I'd love to stock up with an enormous supply of film. The problem is, I do not have a real or stable home. I'm an expat from the US living in China. My year-to-year existence is very much an open question so it would be VERY unwise for me to buy a huge amount of film, only to have to transport it back to the US should my time in China come to an end. Further, the storage conditions here are awful for film so refrigeration is just not an option. I have a small stash of film, perhaps $200 worth of Neopan and Provia in my fridge ant that is more than I can really put in there. Over 50% of my fridge has film in it instead of food for the family. Not good.

So you can see, I have to buy film rather often, instead of creating a large supply and then forgetting about buying. Perhaps one day in the future when I get back to the US, whenever that is.

Now my turn to be baffled. You clearly don't like threads that talk about the film industry............so WHY do you read them?

Wishing you much artistic success!

RM

RattyMouse · May 30, 2014

Xmas said:
C- marks in home work

KA have just extracted film from EK cause EK did not have negotiable asset to cover the pension fund debts.

If the assets were worthless in short term maybe it was a good deal if the assets were also worthless in longer time as well may be not?

KA are ex EK employees apart from CEO and any new blood.

Id say it was same old horses same old glue.

EK should have been able to keep the market share they had in 1950. They should not have wasted money on instance snaps, copied patented ideas and enabled a successor at the same time.

Fuji are selling instant and dcameras maybe Fuji got an A for their home work?

That's a good point that I forgot about. Fujfiilm's incessant selling of INSTAX is another HUGE push for film that I really find attractive. INSTAX film is EVERYWHERE all over Asia. You can find this instant film without much trouble at all.

AgX · May 30, 2014

But practically nowhere over here. Not even around Fuji's european headquarters.

Película · May 30, 2014

Xmas said:
I regret to suggest that I won't be buying Kodak until they adjust their price so the Trix is not twice the price of the HP5+ in both the independent & local brick discount shops I buy in.

That's interesting. In the US at Freestyle, Tri-X is $4.39USD for 135-36, and HP5+ is $5.59USD for 135-36. And with the mail-order places like B+H, it's $4.49USD for Tri-X and $4.75USD for HP5+. Ilford's Delta 400 is $6.29USD and Kodak's T-Max 400 is $4.95USD at B+H. And at Freestyle it's Delta 400 at $7.49USD and T-Max 400 at $4.79USD.

I realize that manufacturers have different geographical prices structures around the globe. But have you asked your stockist as to why the big difference? I'd be curious as to what they say. Anyway, I can understand your desire to stick with Ilford due to that sort of pricing in the UK.

RattyMouse · May 30, 2014

AgX said:
But practically nowhere over here. Not even around Fuji's european headquarters.

Asia is much larger than Germany so clearly the market is supported here and is very profitable. I can go to 10 stores outside my home and buy INSTAX film. 10 stores, 5 mins from my house. I can't buy a single roll of 120 film anywhere near my house. It takes a 5 mile journey for me to get to my film supplier.

Brian C. Miller · May 30, 2014

Prof_Pixel said:
All the griping and complaining about Kodak Alaris here does nothing to make it more likely that Kodak branded film will survive.

Indeed!

For the rest of you:
Here's how to make it more likely that Kodak-branded film will be available: GO FORTH AND PHOTOGRAPH!!!

This past weekend I went through some 4x5 Ektar 100 and Portra 400, and a bit of 8x10 while visiting Idaho and Oregon. Tomorrow I plan to haul my Ilford 8x10 pinhole down to a market and a marathon, and expose more film.

Want film? Use film. Tell people about film. Want to get people's attention? Use a TLR or a view camera. People look at these cameras, and the results are fantastic. DigitalRev did a segment about going bigger than full-frame. How? Film, of course! Today I picked up some 8x10 from Panda Lab, and the fellow behind the counter commented, "Ah, the gigapixel camera!" Yeah, big sheet film is sweet.

Any cheering is not going to come from any corporation. Not Kodak-Alaris, not Ilford, not Fujifilm. Won't happen. Lomo has better exposure than them. Such is life. This is something that's up to the people, and that's us.

RattyMouse · May 30, 2014

Brian C. Miller said:
Indeed!

For the rest of you:
Here's how to make it more likely that Kodak-branded film will be available: GO FORTH AND PHOTOGRAPH!!!

This past weekend I went through some 4x5 Ektar 100 and Portra 400, and a bit of 8x10 while visiting Idaho and Oregon. Tomorrow I plan to haul my Ilford 8x10 pinhole down to a market and a marathon, and expose more film.

Want film? Use film. Tell people about film. Want to get people's attention? Use a TLR or a view camera. People look at these cameras, and the results are fantastic. DigitalRev did a segment about going bigger than full-frame. How? Film, of course! Today I picked up some 8x10 from Panda Lab, and the fellow behind the counter commented, "Ah, the gigapixel camera!" Yeah, big sheet film is sweet.

Any cheering is not going to come from any corporation. Not Kodak-Alaris, not Ilford, not Fujifilm. Won't happen. Lomo has better exposure than them. Such is life. This is something that's up to the people, and that's us.

Incorrect. Cheering does indeed come from Ilford. And it works.

Now, I'm off to photograph a brand new temple (for me) here in Shanghai. My bag is loaded up with 10 rolls of 120 film. Hopefully, the majority of it comes back exposed.

Hatchetman · May 31, 2014

Ilford has convinced me they are in it for the long haul, so I switched to them.

Tom Kershaw · May 31, 2014

Xmas said:
KA do not make film currently EK still make the cine and still film and probably finish it to.

Im sure Sean will be pleased with a down payment...

I regret to suggest that I won't be buying Kodak until they adjust their price so the Trix is not twice the price of the HP5+ in both the independent & local brick discount shops I buy in.

Not sure I understand this comment; Kodak film is often cheaper or the same price as ILFORD in the UK.

Tom

pentaxuser · May 31, 2014

Tom Kershaw said:
Not sure I understand this comment; Kodak film is often cheaper or the same price as ILFORD in the UK.

Tom

By and large that's been my experience also.

pentaxuser

Ken Nadvornick · May 31, 2014

Brian C. Miller said:
For the rest of you:
Here's how to make it more likely that Kodak-branded film will be available: GO FORTH AND PHOTOGRAPH!!!

This past weekend I went through some 4x5 Ektar 100 and Portra 400, and a bit of 8x10 while visiting Idaho and Oregon. Tomorrow I plan to haul my Ilford 8x10 pinhole down to a market and a marathon, and expose more film.

Want film? Use film.

Hmm. Seems to me I heard the same thing from another member here regarding Kodachrome. I took his similar advice, and it got discontinued anyway.

But no matter. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on this. I too will be out today wandering around down at the Seattle waterfront with my 4x5 Crown Graphic, Sunpak 622 Super monster flash (normally don't use my stash of flashbulbs just for daytime fill light), and a small bag full of film holders. It's one of those rare sunny and warm days around here that both of us know are so relatively rare.

Since we're told again and again that EK/KA secretly monitor these wavelengths closely for transmissions, I'm hereby broadcasting my intention to use film in quantity today. Thus, I expect when I return home this evening to hear an announcement by KA that they have heard my message, seen my actions, and placed new larger film orders with EK to help offset the increase in overall demand.

Let's see if it works this time...

Ken

Xmas · May 31, 2014

Tom Kershaw said:
Not sure I understand this comment; Kodak film is often cheaper or the same price as ILFORD in the UK.

Tom

True of 135 but I only shoot bulk or cine cause I fridge two to three thousand foot

HP5+ 100 foot 60 GBP
Kentmere 400 100 foot 41 GBP
Tri x 100 foot 120 GBP
Double x 400 foot 124 GBP (cine can)

This was last time I restocked...

So EK were supplying 400 foot of cine cheaper then KA 100 foot of still
And the trix was twice the price of HP5+. ...

So I got 800 foot of Double-X and few hundred foot of Kentmere 400...

Today
http://www.silverprint.co.uk/ProductByGroup.asp?PrGrp=2241

still dear

or

http://www.processuk.net/TRI-X_PAN_400_135_x_30m_Roll/p740597_3426803.aspx

this is a counter price with cash or debitcard

If Trix was 59 GBP I might have bought.

removed account4 · May 31, 2014

Prof_Pixel said:
Look, let's face facts. The only goal of Kodak Alaris management is to keep Kodak Alaris alive - and that should be their goal above all else.

It's really very simple. If film sales contributes to that goal, they will sell film, if film sales stop contributing to that goal, film will be dropped.

All the griping and complaining about Kodak Alaris here does nothing to make it more likely that Kodak branded film will survive.

Prof_Pixel said:
If you've been in business, you know that with limited resources (cash and personnel) you must first concentrate on the parts of your business that offer the best financial return.

griping doesn't keep film alive ?
concentrate on the parts of the business with best $ return?

now i know why you have prof. as your surname prof_pixel.
you are one the contributers to this thread that have a clue!

pentaxuser · Jun 1, 2014

jnanian said:
griping doesn't keep film alive ?
concentrate on the parts of the business with best $ return?

now i know why you have prof. as your surname prof_pixel.
you are one the contributers to this thread that have a clue!

As in the announcement of an impending death( life drawing peacefully to a close) I had seen signs that this thread was also drawing peacefully(well, relatively so) to an end but I now look forward to the next 30 odd pages of posts

The cat is well and truly amongst the pigeons again

pentaxuser

Ricardo Miranda · Jun 4, 2014

HP5+ 100 foot 60 GBP
Kentmere 400 100 foot 41 GBP
Tri x 100 foot 120 GBP
Double x 400 foot 124 GBP (cine can)

Noel,
You could try this: http://www.theimagingwarehouse.com/ProductGrp/Ilford-Pan-400

RattyMouse · Jun 8, 2014

Seems Unfortunate

I know that this won't go over well, but some things just *demand* comment. I was looking at the 1000 words blog from Kodak Alaris. This is easily the ONLY public outlet that I've seen from them where one can hope to hear a word about film.

The latest entry is a photo contest from inside the Kodak Alaris company. The results were posted recently and the dismal findings are.....not one winner was shot on film.

Nor is film even mention. It's all digital cameras/cell phones.

From some of the entries you read blurbs like this:

"Shot with a Canon EOS REBEL T3...."

".... I grabbed my Kodak digital camera and snapped a photo. "

" I was set up with a tripod and Canon DSLR, just waiting. "

"....I used my iPad mini to capture various images of some chives growing in my garden. I then used an App and made them into a collage."

".... It was whilst sitting on a bench accessing my Facebook that I snapped this picture."

I just shake my head in absolute bewilderment at how short shrift film is getting from KA.

Tom1956 · Jun 8, 2014

Lets back off on Kodak right now. Let them do their own proselytizing about film. Maybe they're setting up a trap to snare unsuspecting future film buyers.

RattyMouse · Jun 8, 2014

Tom1956 said:
Let them do their own proselytizing about film.

That's just it. They are NOT doing that.

Tom1956 said:
Maybe they're setting up a trap to snare unsuspecting future film buyers.

With all due respect, that kind of wishful thinking is what my small child would say.

Tom1956 · Jun 8, 2014

Well, nothing we can do about it. That's for sure. Kodak is in New York, I remind you. They have a monkey on their back. Kodak is just a company always on the search for their next fix.

RattyMouse · Jun 8, 2014

Tom1956 said:
Well, nothing we can do about it. That's for sure. Kodak is in New York, I remind you. They have a monkey on their back. Kodak is just a company always on the search for their next fix.

I thought KA was a UK company?

Tom1956 · Jun 8, 2014

Kodak is wherever the property tax is paid. That's in New York. We should all be so lucky to make as much money in a lifetime as the land under 1 film coater + property tax on said machine costs them up there in a year. The appetite for money is insatiable. They'll do what they have to or will be rusted.
Let's back off and let them make their film without our backbiting. Friendly fire is just as deadly as enemy fire. They might actually surprise us all by showing later on they know what they're doing. You folks in China may well get it after all some day.

snapguy · Jun 8, 2014

I guess one could say that I have the same expectations concerning the Packard Motorcar Company as you do regarding Kodak. Why don't they make modern, very high quality luxury cars like they used to? They have an enormous 325,000 square foot factory in Detroit and it is still in place. It was a state-of-the art assembly line when it was built. Of course the windows are all smashed and it is a urban jungle, a cruel monument to man's and manufacturers' folly. But I want my high quality Packards and You Can Ask The Man Who Owns One about the quality.

Kodak Alaris responses and dispatches

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