Kodak Alaris finally sold to chinese?

[DeletedAcct1]

https://photobite.uk/the-word/kodak-alaris-sold/

 

[MattKing]

A strangely worded story, as Kodak Alaris owns a number of businesses, which include, but are not limited to, the RA4 paper and (presumably RA4) chemistry business that seems to be the subject of the sale.

 

[MattKing]

The link in that bit of fluff is to the original July story which makes it clear that the expected sale was just of the colour paper and colour chemical business. There is no clarity about whether the black and white chemicals business was included.

 

[revdoc]

Longer and much more detailed story:

https://www.insideimaging.com.au/2020/kodak-paper-and-chem-to-chinese-company/

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Having read all that, I am still not 100% sure who makes my T-Max and Xtol.

Film is manufactured by Eastman Kodak in the USA.

 

[AgX]

Well, on the site of the new owner there is a page dedicated to Kodak Alaris with a variety of Alaris' products, including film, but excluding the whole data business "Actionable Intelligence".

Thus from there the whole halide business, being part of the Alaris section "Kodak Moments", seems to be transferred.


However, they also got a page on that deal where it is said:

"After more than 30 years of hard work in the imaging industry, and after many negotiations, Sino Promise Group formally reached an agreement with Kodak Alaris in June 2020 to acquire the global business of Kodak Alaris's imaging products (Photo Paper, Photochemicals, Display, Software)."

and where film is not listed.



However excluding the film business but acquiring the RA-4 and all processing chemicals business, makes not much sense to me.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Well, on the site of the new owner there is a page dedicated to Kodak Alaris with a variety of Alaris' products, including film, but excluding the whole data business "Actionable Intelligence".

Thus from there the whole halide business, being part of the Alaris section "Kodak Moments", seems to be transferred.


However, they also got a page on that deal where it is said:

"After more than 30 years of hard work in the imaging industry, and after many negotiations, Sino Promise Group formally reached an agreement with Kodak Alaris in June 2020 to acquire the global business of Kodak Alaris's imaging products (Photo Paper, Photochemicals, Display, Software)."

and where film is not listed.



However excluding the film business but acquiring the RA-4 and all processing chemicals business, makes not much sense to me.

Unless Alaris is giving up on film, which I would not be too shocked about, if it were the case.

 

[MattKing]

Well, on the site of the new owner there is a page dedicated to Kodak Alaris with a variety of Alaris' products, including film, but excluding the whole data business "Actionable Intelligence".

Sino Promise Group is a large distributor.
If you bought Kodak Alaris products in the past from a retailer, that retailer purchased them from a distributor - quite possibly Sino Promise Group.
As their site says "As the world's largest distributor of Kodak imaging products, SinoPromise acquired the global business in Photo Paper, Photochemicals, Display and Software departments of Kodak Alaris in June 2020."
In essence, for the "Photo Paper, Photochemicals, Display and Software" businesses of Kodak Alaris, they have removed a layer of "middlemen".
For the rest of Kodak Alaris' photographic business - i.e. still film and single use cameras (and possibly Black and White photochemicals), they will still be one of the many distributors that retailers must buy from.
I am unsure about black and white photochemicals, because my understanding is that they are/were handled by a different part of Kodak Alaris than the photochemicals aimed at the commercial lab market.

 

[AgX]

Sino Promise Group is a large distributor.

They also have production facilities.

Anyway, we already had the same discussion about Kodak Alaris and Sino Promise group some months ago:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/kodak-alaris-deal-with-sino-promise-holdings.176534/

 

[MattKing]

However the Sino Promise statement is from November.

Where do you see that?

 

[AgX]

At their website. Their announcement is dated "2020-11-01"

 

[MattKing]

There are two references on the Sino Promise website to Kodak Alaris.
The November 1, 2020 announcement about them completing the purchase from Kodak Alaris of that portion of Kodak Alaris' business described as "Kodak Alaris's imaging products (Photo Paper, Photochemicals, Display, Software)."
The other reference is in their pages about the Kodak Alaris products they have been distributing for years, which include the products that come from the products they just "bought", as well as still film and single use cameras.
It doesn't surprise me that they didn't buy the business that involves Eastman Kodak manufactured products. Those are distributed through very different channels than the colour lab oriented products.

 

[AgX]

But then still the question of the consumer film business remains. To me it neither makes sense for Sino Promise to refuse it nor for Alaris to keep it.

 

[MattKing]

But then still the question of the consumer film business remains. To me it neither makes sense for Sino Promise to refuse it nor for Alaris to keep it.

Eastman Kodak may not be willing to cooperate to the same extent with Sino Promise.
Much of Kodak Alaris is made up of ex-Kodak employees - there are long term business and personal relationships there that Sino Promise may have difficulty replicating.

 

[Chan Tran]

I bought some Ektachrome a couple of months back and it was made in the USA. I don't know which outfit made it.

 

[MattKing]

I bought some Ektachrome a couple of months back and it was made in the USA. I don't know which outfit made it.

Eastman Kodak manufactures all Kodak branded film.
Eastman Kodak distributes and markets all Kodak branded motion picture film.
Eastman Kodak has no distribution and marketing rights with respect to any still film - those rights are owned by Kodak Alaris (who were assigned them by the UK Kodak Pension plan - received as part of the Eastman Kodak bankruptcy).
If your Ektachrome was movie film, you got it from a retailer who got it either directly from Eastman Kodak or, more likely, from a local distributor who bought it from Eastman Kodak.
If your Ektachrome was still film, you got it from a retailer who got it from a local distributor who got it from Kodak Alaris who got it from Eastman Kodak. Eastman Kodak can only sell to Kodak Alaris. Retailers can't buy directly from Kodak Alaris.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Eastman Kodak manufactures all Kodak branded film.

If your Ektachrome was still film, you got it from a retailer who got it from a local distributor who got it from Kodak Alaris who got it from Eastman Kodak. Eastman Kodak can only sell to Kodak Alaris. Retailers can't buy directly from Kodak Alaris.

I do wonder if this has something to do with the inconsistent pricing of Kodak products in different countries. e.g the UK generally has higher Kodak pricing than Germany or the USA.

 

[dutchsteammachine]

Lets hope the chinese won't finish what the japenese and americans could not...

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Eastman Kodak manufactures all Kodak branded film...

Today. That may or may not continue to be the case. No one who knows about the future is speaking. No one who is speaking about the future knows.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I do wonder if this has something to do with the inconsistent pricing of Kodak products in different countries. e.g the UK generally has higher Kodak pricing than Germany or the USA.

You are confusing VAT with pricing. That is like saying the same temperature in Fahrenheit is higher than in Centigrade because the number is higher. Maybe the UK should stay in the EU.

 

[AgX]

-) VAT is rather homogeneous in the EU, the UK and Germany even practically got the same one (20%, 19%)
-) duties are the same in whole EU

-) net-price differences of same product between european countries has a long tradition. Basically it was a matter of effluence of a country but also related to special taxes applied.
Of course in a economically united Europe with easy shipping and easy and cheap money transfer it now became harder to maintain such for products were shipping costs are negligable.

 

[pentaxuser]

I am still no clearer as to what if anything Sino Promise has bought from KA. I'd presume that if KA was given the rights to all Eastman Kodak still films such as TMax, Tri-X etc plus the chemicals then does it not have the right to sell all of these rights to another company if it believes that this sale benefits the UK pension fund.

Presumably if Sino Promise has purchased KA's rights then due diligence was done by Sino Promise to insure that Eastman Kodak will sell those products to Sino Promise, otherwise Sino Promise has effectively paid a lot of money for nothing?

This thread alone has generated a lot of uncertainty about what exactly has happened and what the future holds for those who buy Kodak chemicals and still films. None of that can be good for Kodak's future, can it

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

Until the sale, a large proportion of Kodak Alaris' business came not from film but rather from supplying photographic labs with colour photographic paper, and colour photochemicals and lab kiosks and related software.
It is that business that has been sold - not the still film business.
Unless the black and white photo chemicals are included with this - which is not clear to me - only those of us (or their labs) who use Kodak branded products to do colour film developing or RA4 colour printing are directly affected by this sale.
The Kodak still films aren't included. They didn't sell that (relatively small) business.

 

[markjwyatt]

Here is the Sino Promise statement:

http://www.sinopromise.com/content/info/id/62/navId/10.html

"After more than 30 years of hard work in the imaging industry, and after many negotiations, Sino Promise Group formally reached an agreement with Kodak Alaris in June 2020 to acquire the global business of Kodak Alaris's imaging products (Photo Paper, Photochemicals, Display, Software)."

"acquire the global business" may just mean that they have worldwide exclusive distribution rights, not necessarily that they are taking over the manufacturing operations. The wording here at least is not clear.

This part does imply they are running the whole show, but still not clear:

"Sino Promise Group will do its best to maintain the value of Kodak's high-quality brand; forge ahead and provide better products and services to consumers with a new look to achieve common goal of development and sharing!"

 

[MattKing]

Kodak Alaris doesn't do (photographic materials or products) manufacturing.
Since selling Harrow a few years ago, Kodak Alaris no longer makes or manufactures the paper, and never made or manufactured any of those other products. Eastman Kodak also hadn't manufactured many of those products for years before Kodak Alaris took over.
I don't know whether their software is done in house, or also contracted out.