Kodak Alaris Deal with Sino Promise Holdings?

[Mackinaw]

It this is to be believed, Kodak Alaris has been sold to Sino Promise Holdings. The deal includes paper, photochemicals, display and software. Kodak's film division is NOT part of the deal.

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/...pqkXXpJ3FAxPUfwHkgrHjPZJaNQHCQp_b_eRPNSocdR_I

 

[AgX]

That article mixes up Kodak and Kodak Alaris.

 

[Wallendo]

The original source:
https://www.insideimaging.com.au/2020/kodak-paper-and-chem-to-chinese-company/

From the article, it is not quite clear what the Chinese are buying. The article states: "proposed sale of the Kodak paper and chemistry business – ‘Paper, Photochemicals, Display and Software’". KA doesn't manufacture paper or photochemicals. I guess Sino Promise can now manufacture paper and chemicals with the Kodak brand name, but how much is that worth?

 

[AgX]

KA doesn't manufacture paper or photochemicals.

KA has a paper plant in Colorado.

 

[MattKing]

KA owns exclusive marketing rights for some Kodak branded products., including photo chemicals and colour paper and Kodak still films.
They owned a manufacturing facility for colour paper in the UK, and they owned interests (which in some cases were leasehold interests) in other manufacturing resources for colour paper in other parts of the world. They sold most of those interests and used the money to pay down debt.
I believe that their only remaining manufacturing interest is a partial interest in the Colorado facility shared with Carestream.
As I understand it, Kodak Alaris isn't being sold. Kodak Alaris is doing the selling - of parts of their business.
They have an office document related business that no-one talks about here, but that appears to be what they intend to keep and make core to their business.

 

[mshchem]

Is there a realistic chance of a combined Kodak film, paper, chemicals, sundries and camera company? Something like Ilford? I know that the paper especially would be hard to make in house. But one can dream. Bringing a Polaroid type material, maybe bring out a novel inexpensive process?

 

[MattKing]

Something like Ilford?

Ilford doesn't make its own chemicals.
Nor does it make its own cameras - although I'm not sure about the disposables.

 

[mshchem]

The original source:
https://www.insideimaging.com.au/2020/kodak-paper-and-chem-to-chinese-company/

From the article, it is not quite clear what the Chinese are buying. The article states: "proposed sale of the Kodak paper and chemistry business – ‘Paper, Photochemicals, Display and Software’". KA doesn't manufacture paper or photochemicals. I guess Sino Promise can now manufacture paper and chemicals with the Kodak brand name, but how much is that worth?

This adds to the mystery of "the great XTOL shortage of 2020"

 

[MattKing]

This adds to the mystery of "the great XTOL shortage of 2020"

As the black and white photo chemical business is so tiny compared to the colour photo chemical business, it wouldn't surprise me if it stays with the part of KA that deals with film.

 

[warden]

That article mixes up Kodak and Kodak Alaris.

yeah, I think I'll wait to hear the news direct from the two parties.

 

[mshchem]

Ilford doesn't make its own chemicals.
Nor does it make its own cameras - although I'm not sure about the disposables.

Yep, I think Ilford is still using Tetenal, which makes beautiful products. When Tetenal went into re-structuring I bought probably 40, 5L kits of XTOL, and way too many Kodak Rapid Fix with hardener. All high quality made in Germany.
I've tried the "new" German made XTOL, it works perfectly well. It looks as if the KA powder chemistry is still made in Germany (I think I know where) and the liquids are made in the US.
Adox may be the only fully integrated manufacturer of black and white materials. This assumes that we recover both physically and financially from the current mess we are in.

 

[jtk]

Whatever,

Shipping expenses/tariffs are more important than cost of materials.

 

[Henning Serger]

The original source:
https://www.insideimaging.com.au/2020/kodak-paper-and-chem-to-chinese-company/

From the article, it is not quite clear what the Chinese are buying. The article states: "proposed sale of the Kodak paper and chemistry business – ‘Paper, Photochemicals, Display and Software’". KA doesn't manufacture paper or photochemicals. I guess Sino Promise can now manufacture paper and chemicals with the Kodak brand name, but how much is that worth?

Unfortunately this article isn't very precise, and some details are definitely wrong.
Best is to wait for the final deal and official statement.

In January I've been told by Kodak Alaris that the sale of the film, photo paper and chemical part of KA was put on hold. In March a global reorganization has started. Now it looks that behind all this further negotiations concerning a sale have been going on.
Looks like the 17 year long history of Eastman Kodak and Kodak Alaris restructuring and selling of parts of their businesses is going on.......

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

KA has a paper plant in Colorado.

No, this plant is a Carestream factory. But Carestream has been doing contract coating runs of silver-halide RA-4 photo paper for Kodak Alaris.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

Is there a realistic chance of a combined Kodak film, paper, chemicals, sundries and camera company?

Unfortunately not in the short and mid term future. Eastman Kodak and Kodak Alaris have been in talks about it. When KA decided to sell the film, photo paper and chemical part of their business, EK was of course the first (and best) candidate for it. But it looks like EK had / has not the financial power to make the deal. Therefore later further negotiations with other potential buyers.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

Here some official information - company portrait - of Sino Promise Group:





Best regards,
Henning

 

[Helge]

I normally like his videos. But this just seems like ill informed (perhaps on purpose to gain views and attention) fear mongering.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Title updated.

 

[Henning Serger]

I normally like his videos. But this just seems like ill informed (perhaps on purpose to gain views and attention) fear mongering.

Hello Helge,
yes indeed, this video is very bad, spreading lots of completely wrong infos.
Unfortunately all videos from him concerning the photo industry have been so far on an extremely low quality level. He really has no knowledge about the photo industry, especially none about the film photo industry. Best is to avoid watching his videos about these topics.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[jtk]

Physical locations are virtually inconsequential...beyond rail access and delivery systems such as FedEx.

Few corporations have factories that are located near their ownership., who are typically stock holders (who are international) ... management is scattered, especially when products are nearly unrelated (e.g. coating, chemistry, cameras, distribution systems etc).

A "German" company is as likely Chinese or American. Shipping and politics (e.g. duties) is often more expensive than product. The value of a brand name was at one time hugely important, but think of the plastic Chinese cameras with American vintage brands that are actually made in Vietnam (e.g. "Pentax").

 

[Chan Tran]

Physical locations are virtually inconsequential...beyond rail access and delivery systems such as FedEx.

Few corporations have factories that are located near their ownership., who are typically stock holders (who are international) ... management is scattered, especially when products are nearly unrelated (e.g. coating, chemistry, cameras, distribution systems etc).

A "German" company is as likely Chinese or American. Shipping and politics (e.g. duties) is often more expensive than product. The value of a brand name was at one time hugely important, but think of the plastic Chinese cameras with American vintage brands that are actually made in Vietnam (e.g. "Pentax").

I think they make the Pentax cameras in the Phillipines. The lenses are made in Vietnam. Olympus made all of their cameras in Vietnam in recently years.

 

[jtk]

I think they make the Pentax cameras in the Phillipines. The lenses are made in Vietnam. Olympus made all of their cameras in Vietnam in recently years.

I do recall superb Pentax DSLR lenses with VN labels, never noticed where my wonderful (if heavy) K20D was made.

Most Silicon Valley CEOs and senior execs were from India last time I looked, when I was a recruiter... but there were many brilliant young people from SE Asia (there were surveys). If some version of "Kodak" thought to headquarter other than in CA it would be absurd because the talent has been there for decades...

If YOU wanted to manufacture film, chemistry, cameras etc...in honesty would you manufacture anywhere other than Asia somewhere?

 

[AgX]

Well, the only new film manufacturing entities all are located in Europe...

 

[jtk]

The other, all-important factor is ability to take the risk that's inherent in all investments, except those made by China.

China has vastly more capital to deploy on investments selected by their communist party according to whatever standards they decide to use. But whatever they would do would inherently be free of risk. It's just a matter of printing money.

Since Party investments aren't open to discussion by citizens (apparently) it would be easy to buy every photo-related company....no risk because no accountability.

Buying any photo-related business would be easy for them if they saw even a little bit of opportunity, but it would be even easier simply to reverse-engineer or otherwise re-create whatever they want: Kodachrome, whatever.

 

[jtk]

Well, the only new film manufacturing entities all are located in Europe...

You may be proving my point. Who has more ability to invest in 'film manufacturing entities", China or the EU?

If China wanted EU entities they could just buy them....all Western businesses are capitalist, they all have a price.