Kodachrome

[piratelogy]

I stand to be corrected, but I'm not sure you can develop Kodachrome to a b&w positive slide.

You can. I've actually done it a few times before I moved to trying to conquer it in color.
It looks nicer as a B&W slide than as a negative too.

 

[Nzoomed]

You can. I've actually done it a few times before I moved to trying to conquer it in color.
It looks nicer as a B&W slide than as a negative too.

Yes I expect so, especially considering this is supposed to be a slide film.

 

[twelvetone12]

How do you get rid of the yellow layer?

 

[piratelogy]

How do you get rid of the yellow layer?

The carey lea silver layer? It bleaches out with the reversal bleach.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

So are Daguerrotypes, and Collodion wetplate and yet they offer a unique look thats interesting and artistic as well as learning opportunities for how film works. Kodachrome is the same.

The problem with these analogies is that both systems can be easily duplicated with readily available chemicals and technology. This is mot true for Kodachrome which is several orders of magnitude more complicated.

 

[piratelogy]

The problem with these analogies is that both systems can be easily duplicated with readily available chemicals and technology. This is mot true for Kodachrome which is several orders of magnitude more complicated.

True, Kodachrome is quite a bit more complicated. But I think the analogy still fits. Kodachrome still offers a unique look and opportunities for learning. There will just be far less practitioners of Kodachrome processing due to complexity vs wetplate, etc...

 

[Photo Engineer]

OK, well I have not been around here long enough to even come across your posts as of yet, but anyway I was not referring to a lab environment at a certified Kodachrome lab, rather if you had tempted the process yourself with or without the correct Kodachrome couplers.

I worked in the Kodak Research Labs (KRL) for 32 years. All of my work was Research and Development. I have made that clear over and over. My specialties were color paper and color negative film, both the coating and processing of them, and also emulsion making and scaling.

EDIT: I should add, that even so, my skills in all of these processes and experimentation is light years beyond what is going on here!

PE

 

[keenmaster486]

EDIT: I should add, that even so, my skills in all of these processes and experimentation is light years beyond what is going on here!

This is certainly true, and to be honest puts me in total awe.

However, you didn't answer Nzoomed's question:

Have you, personally, developed Kodachrome manually with your own hands?

I actually don't see the relevance of this question, but it was asked and I guess it ought to be answered.

 

[MattKing]

This is certainly true, and to be honest puts me in total awe.

However, you didn't answer Nzoomed's question:

Have you, personally, developed Kodachrome manually with your own hands?

I actually don't see the relevance of this question, but it was asked and I guess it ought to be answered.

Sheesh!
Why would he have done so?
PE helped create the developer for the K-14 process (he is named as co-inventor on one of the main K-14 patents!) and he had all the resources of the Eastman Kodak research laboratories available to him.
Would you really expect him to have developed Kodachrome in his kitchen?

 

[Photo Engineer]

No, I did not personally process Kodachrome. There was a lab technician to do that and show me (us) the results. I was present during the processing on at least one occasion. For color neg and paper, I did many of these processes myself as well as the coatings as that was my primary job as describe above. I've said elsewhere that I maintained a seasoned color paper process and ran it regularly.

Each professional at KRL had one or more technicians to do the work in the lab if we could not due to other commitments. I have had zero to nine at one time doing work for me (it varied due to the task at hand). When I coated color paper, I did everything myself from start to finish except run the coating machine itself (forbidden to all but specialists) and for color film I had the coatings done for me and the process results delivered to me. For emulsions it was another story.

That is still beyond experiences here. How does this help you? I have seen Kodachrome experiments run in the Kodachrome KRL labs by the chief technician and have posted pictures of that here. I have worked with him in running the CD6 experiments. I even helped write the patent. What more do you wish of me?

PE

 

[MattKing]

What more do you wish of me?

The barn?
It seems to me that an awful lot of the people here on APUG have trouble appreciating that much of what is/was normal for commercial photographic endeavours requires/required teams of people, and banks of money.
Along with hard won expertise.
Piratelogy is to be commended for his efforts, but they seem to be a lot more like the work of the Wright brothers than the work of PE.
If you want to get a better sense about what sorts of contributions PE has made, this link includes links to the Kodachrome patent itself (the linked to pdfs): (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
And if you note the fact that that thread is itself 8 years old, you might get a better sense why PE might be just a bit tired of Kodachrome threads.

 

[piratelogy]

The barn?
It seems to me that an awful lot of the people here on APUG have trouble appreciating that much of what is/was normal for commercial photographic endeavours requires/required teams of people, and banks of money.
Along with hard won expertise.
Piratelogy is to be commended for his efforts, but they seem to be a lot more like the work of the Wright brothers than the work of PE.
If you want to get a better sense about what sorts of contributions PE has made, this link includes links to the Kodachrome patent itself (the linked to pdfs): (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
And if you note the fact that that thread is itself 8 years old, you might get a better sense why PE might be just a bit tired of Kodachrome threads.

Totally, I'm jumping off a building with a pair of feathers and flapping madly as PE flies by in his 747. He's so far beyond my skill level its silly. Which is why I'm so grateful that after all this time he's still willing to answer questions for yet another crazy

 

[Nzoomed]

All I know is i enjoy reading these Kodachrome threads, and I just hope PE has no hard feelings with all the questions ive asked!

 

[LAG]

... I think the analogy still fits...

It is the availability of the product that breaks the analogy between Kodachrome & Wetplates, is not the same at all, don't you think?

 

[LAG]

EDIT: I should add, that even so, my skills in all of these processes and experimentation is light years beyond what is going on here!

With all my respect, I do not want to detract from your knowledge in the matter, but I would like to say two things about it:

1. Your presence and assignment in your past work experience (whatever it was/is), does not give you the reason in everything you pronounce, and that should not mean closing the zipper in our mouths, no matter the light years beyond.

No, I did not personally process Kodachrome.

2. I sincerely and humbly believe that all the information you've already posted here on APUG is unfortunately very badly organized. I suggest changing your "song", making a quick reference if you're tired of posting the same again and again (unless you especially like the game of repeating things over and over again)

I have made that clear over and over

Personally, what I do not like at all (and what has sincerely pushed me to write these words) is your last comment in which I appreciate a certain haughtiness (not only with the EDIT above mentioned):

... What more do you wish of me?

... All the Best

Have you, personally, developed Kodachrome manually with your own hands?

Sheesh!

Why would he have done so? ... PE helped create the developer for the K-14 process (he is named as co-inventor on one of the main K-14 patents!) and he had all the resources of the Eastman Kodak research laboratories available to him.

Would you really expect him to have developed Kodachrome in his kitchen?

Yes! Whether in the kitchen or in the bathroom ...

I think that no one is obliged to answer any questions indeed, but What kind of answer is yours Matt? this type of questions that you've posted shouldn't justify absolutely anything and are more out of the question than the previous question itself. What I'm saying is that it is of zero value to justify that an answer should not be given on the basis of any kind of past work merits.

In any case, the answer has already been given ...

Best

 

[Photo Engineer]

LAG, the disorganization is due to my posting the same things over and over (sometimes) to save the individuals concerned the effort of looking up old posts. Another reason is that my having so many posts precludes my having kept track of them. It is just not possible! Too much.

As for haughty? Wow. I've said over and over that there are better men and women from KRL than I to do these posts. And as for my skills, I'll match anyone here 1:1 for darkroom skills in making, coating and processing. That is not haughty, just fact! Due to years of laborious work.

PE

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, I took Nzoomed's question to mean that he doubted whether PE had the necessary experience to contribute to what pireatology was endeavouring to do, because only someone who manually processed Kodachrome would.
Subsequent communications and posts indicate to me that wasn't really what Nzoomed meant.
But I remain steadfast in my belief that the real, hands on technical and commercial experience and knowledge that PE and others have with respect to these matters is considerably more meaningful for those who want high quality results from film than the experiments being performed by pireatology or the earlier work of Stephen Frizza.
Those experiments have value in themselves, and I commend them. But I wouldn't use them, except as a matter of curiousity, or for fun.

 

[LAG]

LAG, the disorganization is due to my posting the same things over and over (sometimes) to save the individuals concerned the effort of looking up old posts. Another reason is that my having so many posts precludes my having kept track of them. It is just not possible! Too much.

As for haughty? Wow. I've said over and over that there are better men and women from KRL than I to do these posts. And as for my skills, I'll match anyone here 1:1 for darkroom skills in making, coating and processing. That is not haughty, just fact! Due to years of laborious work.

PE

Hello Photo Engineer

Disorganization: I just pointed to the suggestion to have the relevant (past) information channeled for your best, for your own safety and well being in the immediate future. Experience in this field is another kind of experience from which to learn. I understand your point, I can see the problem you have with too many posts. Do not blame them.

Haughty: Anyone with a minimum of common sense, criteria and knowledge (more limited than yours), can appreciate your enormous wisdom and experience in the field and should be grateful for you effort (as I told you some other time in some other thread and I repeat again here now, to make it clear). However, one thing is to have that priviledge knowledge and another quite different is to use it as a flag or as a shield. Like it or not, that was what I thought I saw, and I considered a very bad taste.

Kind regards!

 

[Photo Engineer]

LAG, I will have to let others judge our respective posts then. You yourself just quoted yourself in a manner that I was accused of doing and as for using a shield, I have withheld virtually nothing from this forum. When I do, I tell you. I'm sorry, but I cannot accept what you are saying.

PE

 

[LAG]

LAG, I will have to let others judge our respective posts then.

Done! So do I (Do not expect such overwhelming sincerity from others) Well, I've tried to be benevolent, but I've already told you what I think openly.

I'm sorry, but I cannot accept what you are saying.

We're even!

Best (as always)

 

[Nzoomed]

FWIW, I took Nzoomed's question to mean that he doubted whether PE had the necessary experience to contribute to what pireatology was endeavouring to do, because only someone who manually processed Kodachrome would.
Subsequent communications and posts indicate to me that wasn't really what Nzoomed meant.
But I remain steadfast in my belief that the real, hands on technical and commercial experience and knowledge that PE and others have with respect to these matters is considerably more meaningful for those who want high quality results from film than the experiments being performed by pireatology or the earlier work of Stephen Frizza.
Those experiments have value in themselves, and I commend them. But I wouldn't use them, except as a matter of curiousity, or for fun.

No thats not what I intended at all, and I hope PE does not feel that way.

I was merely asking him if he had played around with the process by hand in his own time, mainly because due to curiosity.

 

[flavio81]

Done! So do I (Do not expect such overwhelming sincerity from others) Well, I've tried to be benevolent, but I've already told you what I think openly.

Have you ever, ever thought that what you have posted is highly arrogant towards a person with enormous patience and proven will to help others such as Photo Engineer?

The things i have to read in this forum!!

Perhaps you should read what you write before pushing the "Post Reply" button.

LAG, I will have to let others judge our respective posts then.

PE, Pirateology:

You are doing fantastic things on this forum. You don't deserve to have to deal with that attitude.
Keep doing what you are doing.

Pirateology, i can't wait to see your test shots once you achieve good yellow levels!!

 

[bvy]

Done! So do I (Do not expect such overwhelming sincerity from others) Well, I've tried to be benevolent, but I've already told you what I think openly.

This is childish. Please stop.

 

[LAG]

Have you ever, ever thought that what you have posted...

I did! ... but in fact since you mention it, that arrogant attitude was my complaint Flavio81

The things i have to read in this forum!!

Perhaps you should read what you write before pushing the "Post Reply" button.

Looking who's talking! (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

As for the rest ... There is nothing more complicated than explaining things to on who does not want to understand a thing. You're free to see and understand what you want from any of my words above.

(tired of wishing)Best

This is childish. Please stop.

You should have quoted others to complete the kindergarten.
But I'll stop (unless quoted ...), no need to say please

Best

​

 

[piratelogy]

Have you ever, ever thought that what you have posted is highly arrogant towards a person with enormous patience and proven will to help others such as Photo Engineer?

The things i have to read in this forum!!

Perhaps you should read what you write before pushing the "Post Reply" button.



PE, Pirateology:

You are doing fantastic things on this forum. You don't deserve to have to deal with that attitude.
Keep doing what you are doing.

Pirateology, i can't wait to see your test shots once you achieve good yellow levels!!

I got some pretty decent yellows by upping the PH even farther, I'm dealing now with the fact I don't seem to be able to do it consistently. Once the PH goes above 10 the couplers get pretty unstable. They start breaking down and forming dyes pretty rapidly. I've been on the phone this morning with Sigma Aldrich trying to source the correct couplers to see if I can get my recipes closer to correct. They're going to see if they can source them for me.