Kodachrome in China?

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Steve Smith

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Is this based on fact or conjecture? Can you cite an article in a respected publication or is this based on what you ate for breakfast? :smile:

On the basis that it is normal to think of your own country as a complex mix of all sorts of levels of competence in manufacturing but to consider any other country in general terms.

To write off the whole of China as being incapable of producing anything of quality based on a few poor quality items which you have seen or heard of is a bit like suggesting that there are no good quality restaurants in America because I went to MacDonalds a couple of times.

As I stated earlier, the copany I work for is owned by a Chinese company: http://www.johnsonelectric.com/en/index.html

They make high quality comonents some of which you are very likely to have in some of the equipment in your home and/or office.


Steve.
 

Steve Smith

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To the party earlier in this discussion weighing the complexities of building a steam locomotive from scratch versus a coating run of Kodachrome, here's a more fundamental idea:

My thoughts on this were that If I wanted to, I could make a steam locomotive in my shed and I could make a photographic emulsion in my darkroom/kitchen.

However, the film would not be anything like Kodachrome and the locomotive would not be capable of hauling the Orient Express!


Steve.
 

Diapositivo

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I read somewhere that in China quality production exists on all fields. It normally happens, though, that those firms would not have a market in the western worlds, as their quality is generally not recognised by the market even if present, and as it would not be as competitive in price.

Just to make an example. You can buy relatively inexpensive household appliances with an Italian brand. You can buy relatively more expensive household appliances with a German brand. You can buy cheaper household appliances from China. The Italian ones are already quite inexpensive. In order to compete (factoring added distributive costs) the Chinese must be really inexpensive. This leads to high percentage of defaults. This leads to perception that Chinese households are, and always must be, not high-quality stuff. This makes it very hard, for an existing Chinese quality manufacturer, to find a space in the European market. At equal quality, the Chinese product would have a small price advantage, but a big image disadvantage.

By the same token, an Italian maker could easily make household appliances in the same quality bracket that the German producers occupy, possibly with a small price advantage. But it will have a big market disadvantage because, you know, if it is really high quality, it must be German not Italian.

Kodak had their Retinas manufactured in Germany. I suppose they could easily manufacture them in the US with the same quality and cost. But the market would have always priced more a "made in Germany" camera than a "made in the US" camera.

So we only see low-quality Chinese products but that does not mean that they are not capable of producing high-quality products, or that they don't produce them. It only means that they would have a hard time in our markets.

Just to make another example. For decades Americans (or British), knowing nothing about wine, would obviously never spend serious money on a bottle which was not French. That relegated non-French producers in the US markets to the low-quality segment. That, in turn, prevented high-quality producers from entering the quality market. These mechanisms take many years to be overcome.

I am sure we will learn to appreciate quality Chinese brands in a decade or two.

Fabrizio

PS Some of the things you buy on the internet are fake. Your Gossen or Sekonic lightmeters are not necessarily produced where you think they are, they are Chinese imitations. Some pharmaceuticals around are pirated, "copied" by firms with all the necessary skills. The Italian luxury leather manufacturer, branded goods, see the competition of Chinese fake of very high quality (and cost) (OK the Moroccan came first in that sector)
 
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michaelbsc

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Anybody who doubts that China can produce a high quality product should ask the guy who orbited the earth in a Chinese spacecraft. That's not exactly the same thing as making a can opener.
 

Sirius Glass

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On the basis that it is normal to think of your own country as a complex mix of all sorts of levels of competence in manufacturing but to consider any other country in general terms.

To write off the whole of China as being incapable of producing anything of quality based on a few poor quality items which you have seen or heard of is a bit like suggesting that there are no good quality restaurants in America because I went to MacDonalds a couple of times.

As I stated earlier, the copany I work for is owned by a Chinese company: http://www.johnsonelectric.com/en/index.html

They make high quality comonents some of which you are very likely to have in some of the equipment in your home and/or office.


Steve.

I did not say that the quality of Chinese good or bad. It was just that you stated your point that you had a factual basis rather than something that you just typed.
 

lxdude

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Anybody who doubts that China can produce a high quality product should ask the guy who orbited the earth in a Chinese spacecraft. That's not exactly the same thing as making a can opener.

But their can openers still suck.
What you said goes for the Soviet Union, too. They did well with their high technology, but...
It's really a different thing. Americans went to the moon but still made some crappy cars.
 

2F/2F

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Keep in mind that a huge percentage of the plants in China that turn out the infamous pure crap products we all know and hate are contracted to do so by foreign corporations, because these corporations are too cheap to pay the price for labor and other costs in their own countries. Many Chinese products are crap because they are specifically spec'd to be crap, by crap corporations. They are not crap just because they are made in China. It is not the national origin of the product that matters. It is the specifics of how it was designed and manufactured, and that holds true anywhere in the world.
 
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Q.G.

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Kodak had their Retinas manufactured in Germany. I suppose they could easily manufacture them in the US with the same quality and cost. But the market would have always priced more a "made in Germany" camera than a "made in the US" camera.

Just a note to make sure there's no misunderstanding about the historical how what and why of things:
While it is true that these cameras came from Germany because the German optical and fine mechanical industry had a great and well deserved reputation for high quality workmanship, Kodak did not have "their" Retinas produced in Germany, but had entered into a partnership with Nagel (which resulted in Kodak AG, a merger of Glanzfilm - the film manufacturer Kodak bought earlier to produce Kodak films - Nagel and Kodak's marketing subsidiary in Germany) to sell their, i.e. Nagel's cameras under the Kodak brand name.

So if someone would get the impression that Kodak had a camera, were thinking about where in the world to have it made, then decided on Germany, that would be completely wrong.
They 'happened' to be produced in Germany, because the designer and manufacturer of the camera was German.
There's no "could easily" about the option to move manufacture to the U.S.
:wink:
 

Diapositivo

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Q.G. that was just an example, but I suppose Kodak could have found a US producer to make an agreement with. They chose Nagel for a series of industrial reasons that they only know, and I think possibly also because it was in Germany, and - if I get it right - Schneider-Kreuznach for the same reason. People do look at were a product is made. This influences their perception of quality beyond the merits of the object. When I was a child, the general consensus was that "Swiss" watch meant good watch by definition, even if that was obviously quite untrue in practice in my opinion.
 
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