KEH Camera ratings - help needed

[unohuu]

i have only purchased bargain from KEH...I am always amazed at the quality of the items. I am looking for a bargain 80-200mm for my F4s right now.

Luke

 

[David Brown]

Wow, I have had two items I needed to return and the service was impeccable. They also shipped before receiving the return, although they did need a credit card to make sure that they got the original back.

... Sorry to hear that your experience was so bad, I do think that their management needs to know that it happened, because I firmly believe that they have standards that would preclude that kind of thing.

Good luck,

Paul.

Paul:

I agree completely with your (and others') assessment of their normal customer service. It was my own experience prior to this purchase.

Anyway, here’s the update on my adventures with KEH. As you recall from the previous episode, I had called on the 26th, to be told that they had rec’d my return on the 19th, but hadn’t shipped the replacement yet and would get to it when they could.

I was advised to calm down and call back the next day – good advice – and a decision I had already made.

First thing the morning of the 27th, I call and ask for “customer service”. I get a voice mail, and leave a message. No one calls back. After lunch, I call “customer service” again, and get another person’s voicemail, which I decline. I immediately call back to talk with whoever answers the phone. This person tells me that they only have 2 people who work returns, and that one of them is “on vacation”. OK, this explains, but does not excuse the delay; and, it certainly does not explain or excuse the “attitude” I had gotten the day before.

Anyway, this gentleman does offer to print out my return order, and go back to the return area to see what the status is. Great. So, then, I say “and you’ll call me back?” And he says: “You want me to?” (No, I want to wonder what the hell happened for another week!) “Yes, please call me back!”

So, 3 hours later, another person calls me and tells me that the camera will be shipped “tomorrow” (the 28th). Well, at least he called, and I really did appreciate that gesture at this point.

The camera arrived yesterday – August 1st – and seems fine. No mention of re-imbursement for my return shipping. I’ll probably mention it on the customer satisfaction card that was included in the shipment.

 

[naturephoto1]

Hi David,

I hope things work out with KEH. I have found them to be responsive, provide really high quality merchandise at a reasonable price, and have always been responsible.

Rich

 

[Paul Sorensen]

The other day I purchased a minolta Flash Meter IV from them in Ugly condition. I needed to keep my purchase price under $100, so I decided to take a chance.

This thing is so far from what I would consider ugly, I am amazed. It is fairly scratched at the bottom where the sync cord plugs in, but otherwise in excellent condition and it works perfectly. Perhaps I will avoid lenses in Ug, since they state that there will be marks on the glass, but I am now going to start considering other items in that grade if the price is right. Pretty amazing!

 

[Lee Shively]

Since I've started using my Canon equipment more, I ordered an "Excellent" EOS 1n last week that is as pretty as any I've ever seen. The only marks on it are on the battery compartment screw and a small ding near the shutter release. I've always been happy with KEH but, then again, I've never had to return anything.

Has anyone checked the prices of new equipment from KEH? I also decided to get the Canon EF 50/1.4 to upgrade from the f/1.8 I've been using. I first went to B&H but decided to check KEH just to see if there was an option there. KEH's price for the lens new was a few bucks less than the B&H price. So I ordered from KEH and saved a little.

 

[justpete]

Just my two cents.

I've bought mostly EX grade, an EX+, and a LN- lens over the last year, six in all including a couple of teleconverters. They met the description given for their grades _but_ as it turned out two of the lenses, an EX and an LN- had internal damage requiring repair . This isn't to fault KEH as the problems wouldn't have been found without disassembling the lenses.

After a few weeks checking out each lens I send them to APS for a CLA and to check for any unseen problems. It's expensive but they do great work. Anyway, one of the lenses, the one rated EX, had a broken aperture ring leaf spring which explained why it seemed a little loose in holding the set stop. The other, the one rated LN-, ended up having a damaged helicoid key which needed replacement. I just thought the lube had dried up given the S/N and utterly perfect condition.

So out of a couple thousand spent at KEH in the last year, I've been out maybe a few percent of that total on actual repairs. I consider that negligible. The cost added to each lens for APS to go through them isn't negligible but I do end up with known condition and CLA'd lenses so if the pictures suck, it's me, not the lens. But then that's always true, come to think of it, isn't it?

I wrote 'em a letter yesterday with all the details included but I wasn't complaining, I wasn't asking for my money back or to trade lenses, I really just wanted to give them some feedback about their inspection and grading quality control. BTW, I've also bought a LN- condition FM2n body and why it wasn't graded N is beyond me. There's no evidence it was ever used as far as I could tell.

To the OP: the grading matters IMHO as what they say their grades mean is absolutely true or excessively conservative, I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them again. Their reputation is well earned and well deserved and it wouldn't surprise me one bit to buy a BGN lens and find it perfectly servicable. And their customer service, when they aren't run ragged, is routinely excellent.

FWIW,
Pete

 

[thebanana]

KEH++

I ordered a Nikon AF35mm lens in BGN condition on Monday. It arrived here in Manitoba today (Wednesday). From Georgia, that's nearly miraculous. As others have stated previously, their ratings are very conservative. I expect it is BGN simply because it didn't come with caps. I'm very impressed.

 

[Neanderman]

I've purchased a number of items from them over the years and their rating system is very conservative. I'd buy from them with great confidence.

 

[Paul Sorensen]

Just got an RB67 ProSD back in bargain condition, it has paint loss on the wind lever, that is all the wear I can find on the thing. Wonderful condition. I am consistently amazed by their grading.

 

[snegron]

I too have purchased many things from KEH this past year in several rating categories (even digital equipment). I purchased several Nikon D1X bodies from them in LN- and EX condition. I had a problem with 2 out of the 4 D1X bodies I bought. Turns out that although the overall condition of the cameras seemed as if they had never been used, there was a small vertical scratch on their imaging sensors that showed up in every image. I had one of the D1X's replaced without a problem and the other was credited back to my credit card.

I recently ordered a BGN prism for an old F3 I have and , true to their rating, it was BGN looking. The glass on the prism was excellent but the whole cover of the prism looked like it been through a war zone. Good thing though is that the prism's rough look matched perfectly well the rough presence of my old F3.

I also ordered an F3HP in EX condition with MD4 motordrive. The serial number appears to indicate it is one of the early production F3 bodies, so I have no idea how they have been able to preserve this camera so well for over 20 years!

A few months ago I ordered an F2A body with MD2 motor drive in EX condition, also a 35mm 2.0 AIS manual focus lens in LN condition. All items were in outstanding shape. So much so that I have had to shelve them for collecting purposes only, too afraid to put their first nick or scratch on them. Now I'm checking KEH everyday for a usable 35mm 2.0 AIS lens (their current advertised ones indicate they have bent filter threads).

 

[jstraw]

AKEH question for experienced customers...

Should I assume that bodies and lenses will come with or without caps, covers, hoods, straps, etc.? I need to know if I need to be shopping for those items too.

 

[Terence]

AKEH question for experienced customers...

Should I assume that bodies and lenses will come with or without caps, covers, hoods, straps, etc.? I need to know if I need to be shopping for those items too.

Safe to assume they do not, unless noted. They tend to be fairly specific about it.

 

[Nick Zentena]

Yup they'll mention it. Some times it costs more but not always. You just need to pay attention to the listings.

 

[seawolf66]

I also Concur with the below and others< Ihave bought a few things from KEH.com and as of yet I have no been disappointed at all, But read their return policy and adhere to it. and you will not have any problems at all:
my Hassey 150mm lens was a BGN what was wrong with it was as they stated on the web site for it:[a small nick in rear lens and it was engraved with former owners info: ] the nick does not interfer with the negative at all,
So you can rest asured that they are on the up and up:

Concur with all of the above. KEH is extremely conservative in their ratings, and I would never hesitate to buy something in 'bargain' condition from them.

 

[jstraw]

Thanks folks.

 

[greybeard]

I note that all of the responses have referred to cameras and lenses, mostly high-end, it seems. Having spent a dismayingly large amount of money at KEH for just those kinds of things---with a perfect record on their part and consistently conservative ratings---I was a bit surprised to unpack a couple of Calumet monorails and find that VG and EXC apparently can include cracked knobs (previously "repaired" with a hot glue gun" and bent springs. Not quite bad enough to justify sending them back, but annoying anyway.

I would be interested in knowing if this reflects a bad day on somebody's part in Atlanta, or effectively different standards between old, cheap view cameras and modern, expensive equipment.

 

[Paul Sorensen]

I note that all of the responses have referred to cameras and lenses, mostly high-end, it seems. Having spent a dismayingly large amount of money at KEH for just those kinds of things---with a perfect record on their part and consistently conservative ratings---I was a bit surprised to unpack a couple of Calumet monorails and find that VG and EXC apparently can include cracked knobs (previously "repaired" with a hot glue gun" and bent springs. Not quite bad enough to justify sending them back, but annoying anyway.

I would be interested in knowing if this reflects a bad day on somebody's part in Atlanta, or effectively different standards between old, cheap view cameras and modern, expensive equipment.

I got a Pentax 80-210mm manual focus lens in Bargain that was in significantly worse condition than I was expecting. After thinking about it a bit, I realized that it was exactly what Bargain should be, and that I have been getting Bargain graded items that were really nice. At times I wondered if they were out of Bargain and just shipped me the Ex to fulfill the order. I even bought a Minolta Flash Meter IV that was in Ugly condition and I thought it was really a pretty nice bargain condition item.

I do wonder if my experience with the Pentax might be an additional sign that their grading might be on a curve. They may indeed be a little less strict on older items than on newer, especially higher end, items. Regardless, I am happy with everything I have purchased from them.

 

[jstraw]

What is the experience with KEH purchases needing CLA or foam seal replacement? Are they sold in the state of maintainance they were recieved or do they take care of this before reselling items?

 

[Travis Nunn]

What is the experience with KEH purchases needing CLA or foam seal replacement? Are they sold in the state of maintainance they were recieved or do they take care of this before reselling items?

I've purchased a total of 3 "Bargain" grade film backs from KEH for my RB67. Two of them were perfectly fine as they were, one of them needed the seals replaced. I ended up buying a re-sealing kit for $10 and doing it myself.

 

[Nick Zentena]

I would be interested in knowing if this reflects a bad day on somebody's part in Atlanta, or effectively different standards between old, cheap view cameras and modern, expensive equipment.

The worst I had was one lens they forgot the caps and the wrong size lens board. Both times they fixed the problem quickly.

Dead Link Removed

The grading standards do mention dings etc. Some of the "dings" on the stuff I've bought have been REALLY small but the bargain stuff I've bought has always had some thing. It's just not the sort of stuff I would consider bargain. Like a camera body with the tripod mount area showing the odd scratch.

 

[eddie gunks]

i used to buy mostly BGN grade. i had a very good run on BGN grade arriving in very good condition. but then i got a few BGN grade film backs for my RB67 and i had many problems including light leaks and winding issues. i am of the opinion that light leaks may be okay for ugly, but not BGN. i mean they are pros, they should be able to look and see nasty crudy foam.

i have also received BGN lenses with dust inside. this does not bother me. i have run a bunch of tests and none of my dust affected the photo. (i have shot 100s of rolls with this lens and no photos are affected:)) ) another lens has a "loose" feel to the aperture dial. it peforms fine. again acceptable for BGN grade IMO.

on the positive side i have received many many items rated BGN that look EXC to me. some do not even look used.

what i do now is to get EXC rated film backs as i find it just as expensive to test the backs and then return them as i do just to get EXC to begin with.

eddie

 

[jstraw]

Well, I ordered everything in my starter outfit as BGN so cross your fingers.

RB67 PRO-S WITHOUT WAISTLEVEL, REVOLVING BACK, MEDIUM FORMAT SLR MANUAL FOCUS CAMERA BODY
Grade: Bargain
Price: $62.00

120 PRO-S BACK
Grade: Bargain
Price: $53.00

PRISM
Grade: Bargain
Price: $39.00

90 F3.8 NB (77) MEDIUM FORMAT SLR MANUAL FOCUS STANDARD ANGLE LENS
Grade: Bargain
Price: $105.00

GRIP HOLDER GRIP
Grade: Bargain
Price: $49.00

FRONT 77 SNAP-ON CAP
Grade: Bargain
Price: $9.00

 

[PHOTOTONE]

In addition to the items you ordered, isn't there a "back adaptor" thingy you need?? I think the back itself attaches to a removable revolving plate, which then attaches to the camera. One has to remove this plate to use the Polaroid back. What I'm saying is the Pro-S back, is just the film back, not the "revolving" part. and the listing above states "without revolving back". I know I have some RB stuff I use.

 

[Travis Nunn]

In addition to the items you ordered, isn't there a "back adaptor" thingy you need?? I think the back itself attaches to a removable revolving plate, which then attaches to the camera. One has to remove this plate to use the Polaroid back. What I'm saying is the Pro-S back, is just the film back, not the "revolving" part. and the listing above states "without revolving back". I know I have some RB stuff I use.

This is the part you're speaking of...
Dead Link Removed

When I purchased my two RB67 bodies, they both came with this attachment. As a matter of fact, you can't attach the film back to the body without it. It would be worth a phone call to KEH to see if, indeed it is not included.

 

[jovo]

I'm in the midst of assessing KEH's customer support service. I ordered and received a Bogen/Manfrotto 3001N tripod in LN- (like new minus) condition for a very decent price. The 'pod arrived in a badly damaged box, and to my dismay, one of the tubes had been dented and slightly punctured, and, of course, the inner tube wouldn't extend or retract easily as a result. I called KEH and spoke to a very helpful guy (Ken) who suggested a number of possible solutions, one of which (ordering a new tube section from Bogen) proved to be a fine option. I have now received the new tube, installed it, and will be forwarding the unexpectedly small cost to KEH for reimbursement. If the whole thing goes as smoothly as I anticipate that it will, I'll be very satisfied...after all, gorilla handling is just a risk one takes in buying mail-order stuff...it's not KEH's fault that the 'pod was probably used to subdue an attack by a vicious mastadon.

N.B. - There actually is a complete mastadon skeleton that was unearthed locally and is displayed at Museum Village, here in Monroe, NY.