KA: Kodachrome "just not practical to try to replicate in today's market."

[faberryman]

I wish they would make high silver papers with cadmium in them again, but they won't, so I got over it and moved on. Hoping the past will return is a complete waste of time and energy, and won't make your current work any better.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Charles.... What organic chemistry department?

 

[cmacd123]

Charles.... What organic chemistry department?

the one that Kodak _Used_ to have... (which leaves Film Ferrania up by one, they still have one, even if it is one old Chemist enticed out of retirement.)

 

[cmacd123]

(somewhere on my bookshelf I have a inch think book entitled "Eastman Organic Chemicals" containing page after page of diagrams on Molecules that one would have to be a chemist to have any idea of how to pronounce the names associated with the diagrams. Impressive looking book on my bookshelf anyway)

 

[Sirius Glass]

But no one knows for sure. Restarting Kodachrome would probably mean a lot of research recreating what has been lost, or which cannot be redone with todays available materials. Then design and build the machines for development. And that is assuming that they can reuse the scaled down machinery they build for making smaller Ektachrome emulsion batches. Otherwise add those costs.

I guess we're talking millions here. If a company with the wealth of Google or Apple felt fancy they could afford it financially. A few shareholder would ask some critical questions, though. I don't think Kodak is in the financial shape to risk that much money on something that would essentially be a lottery ticket for them. Their marketing budget will not be able to take it either, if you think they should do it simply for the publicity.

And I'm not even sure what a new Kodachrome would provide. What I think of as Kodachrome might be some very old version of it. The few members of the public who still associate a memory with Kodachrome may think similar. Those who love it already will love it. To hit the market real big with it, well again... it's russian roulette.

Get over it! Kodachrome is dead.

 

[cmacd123]

I wish they would make high silver papers with cadmium in them again

Not likly to happen. Cadmium is not something that most governments would like to see anywhere in the environment.

 

[lantau]

Get over it! Kodachrome is dead.

I don't have to get over it. I've never been into it. When Fuji will discontinue Velvia, however... I guess I'll have to call for volunteers to form an invasion force, take Japan and seize the Fuji plant!

 

[keenmaster486]

If I am ever a billionaire someday, I promise you all that I will dump millions of dollars into a Kodachrome project whether it makes any money or not.

 

[fdonadio]

all the Kodachrome processing machines have gone to the steel mills to be made into things like car exhaust systems. While Kodak probably still has their notes, they would have to build at least one new processing machine for each major continent.

The processing machines should be easy enough, if one can get the process timings and specifications for turbulation, filtration and replenishment. The process chemicals shouldn't be that hard, but a little harder than the machines (I'm guessing here). The film itself is the major hurdle. A hurdle that doesn't seem to be economically viable and we all know businesses base their decisions on that. So, like cmacd123 said:

Kodachrome : It's DEAD JIM! Get over it.

 

[Sirius Glass]

If I am ever a billionaire someday, I promise you all that I will dump millions of dollars into a Kodachrome project whether it makes any money or not.

Since you are bent on throwing your money away, just send it to me.

 

[keenmaster486]

Since you are bent on throwing your money away, just send it to me.

Promise me you'll spend it on marshmallows and it's a deal.

 

[Prest_400]

If I am ever a billionaire someday, I promise you all that I will dump millions of dollars into a Kodachrome project whether it makes any money or not.

Promise me you'll spend it on marshmallows and it's a deal.

There's a nice warehouse in my town and it's got nice gardens and pool, close to the beach as well. Ideal set up as a barn for PE to make Kodachrome in.

On a more serious note, given the lots of eccentric millionaires spending money in silly things; well film seems not to be bling enough for any. I think the price of a performance car would go a long way ($300K) for a batch of interesting film.

 

[cmacd123]

The processing machines should be easy enough, if one can get the process timings and specifications for turbulation, filtration and replenishment. The process chemicals shouldn't be that hard, but a little harder than the machines (I'm guessing here). The film itself is the major hurdle.

Ah yes, BUT kodachrome has three layers which ALL are reexposed and developed SEPARATELY. first you re-expose the front side with the right colour of light, and develop the image with the correct developer for the needed dye. THEN you expose the back side again with the corect light for that side. And develop in the corect developer that has THAT colour. Finally a fogging solution to expose the middle layer and the third special developer. Have to do that one chemically as the front and back are by now 100% silver covered.

Note that the back is perhaps treated before the front, I am not sure of the exact sequence.

Then you can bleach and fix like a more standard colour film. this is of course after you remove the REM-JET like on Eastman colour and do a first developer similar to what Ektachrome needs. there are also probably OTHER steps like washes and stop baths and precondition baths and washes and magic incantations.

 

[fdonadio]

Ah yes, BUT kodachrome has three layers which ALL are reexposed and developed SEPARATELY. first you re-expose the front side with the right colour of light...

Yes, the process is well-known and even the Wikipedia article details it accurately. Each of the three developers only work with the right layer, so there are no special tricks, like having the solutions only make contact with one side of the film. The film just passes through the chemicals like in a movie film processing machine.

 

[removed account4]

I wish they would make high silver papers with cadmium in them again, but they won't, so I got over it and moved on. Hoping the past will return is a complete waste of time and energy, and won't make your current work any better.

if you can find a source for cadmium im guessing you might be able to find a recipe to make the emulsion
and you can make your own, and never have to wait for it to be made again ... making emulsions in small batches
really isn't as difficult as it seems ... ( well, i guess sometimes it gets complicated and is as difficult as it seems ) ...

 

[Photo Engineer]

I have several Cadmium salts in my DR.

PE

 

[Prof_Pixel]

(somewhere on my bookshelf I have a inch think book entitled "Eastman Organic Chemicals" containing page after page of diagrams on Molecules that one would have to be a chemist to have any idea of how to pronounce the names associated with the diagrams. Impressive looking book on my bookshelf anyway)

The Eastman Kodak Company 'spun off' Eastman Organic Chemicals (in Kingsport, TN) in 1993

 

[cmacd123]

The Eastman Kodak Company 'spun off' Eastman Organic Chemicals (in Kingsport, TN) in 1993

Kodak seems to have had a thing about spinning off all the "interesting" parts of the company, the ones that could grow the business, to stick with there existing cash cow operations.

 

[removed account4]

Surely the problem then would be cost? All film manufacturers had R&D facilities, coating machines for small run development purposes etc. To use such facilities for product runs would surely result in eye wateringly expensive output.

yup

i never understand how anyone could ask a company that is already struggling
to begin manufacturing something that would be prohibitively expensive to make,
to re-manufacturer the machines to process (the film), when there wasn't enough market share
to continue making it when it was last being made.
the notion that someone will pony-up 50-75$+/roll ( including processing ) on a regular basis
is delusional at best. and if EK / KA did decide to do that i would imagine it was because
they were doing one last ditch thing / a PR stunt before the death roll. and even then you'd have to imagine
the people giving the orders to make a product that would kill the company are doing it
either because their psych dr gave them the wrong combination of meds, they are drinking
too much tainted with lead &c municipal tap water, they took out a giant " if the company dies
you will a zillion dollars" insurance policy, it is some sort of theoretical experiment and reality doesn't matter
their minds are being controlled by another entity ... or ... they are suckers for punishment.
unfortunately the sun has set on this fine product ...

 

[Sirius Glass]

Promise me you'll spend it on marshmallows and it's a deal.

Marshmallows and mint cookies

 

[Sirius Glass]

yup

i never understand how anyone could ask a company that is already struggling
to begin manufacturing something that would be prohibitively expensive to make,
to re-manufacturer the machines to process (the film), when there wasn't enough market share
to continue making it when it was last being made.
the notion that someone will pony-up 50-75$+/roll ( including processing ) on a regular basis
is delusional at best. and if EK / KA did decide to do that i would imagine it was because
they were doing one last ditch thing / a PR stunt before the death roll. and even then you'd have to imagine
the people giving the orders to make a product that would kill the company are doing it
either because their psych dr gave them the wrong combination of meds, they are drinking
too much tainted with lead &c municipal tap water, they took out a giant " if the company dies
you will a zillion dollars" insurance policy, it is some sort of theoretical experiment and reality doesn't matter
their minds are being controlled by another entity ... or ... they are suckers for punishment.
unfortunately the sun has set on this fine product ...

+ 10,000!!!

 

[RattyMouse]

yup

i never understand how anyone could ask a company that is already struggling
to begin manufacturing something that would be prohibitively expensive to make,
to re-manufacturer the machines to process (the film), when there wasn't enough market share
to continue making it when it was last being made.
the notion that someone will pony-up 50-75$+/roll ( including processing ) on a regular basis
is delusional at best. and if EK / KA did decide to do that i would imagine it was because
they were doing one last ditch thing / a PR stunt before the death roll. and even then you'd have to imagine
the people giving the orders to make a product that would kill the company are doing it
either because their psych dr gave them the wrong combination of meds, they are drinking
too much tainted with lead &c municipal tap water, they took out a giant " if the company dies
you will a zillion dollars" insurance policy, it is some sort of theoretical experiment and reality doesn't matter
their minds are being controlled by another entity ... or ... they are suckers for punishment.
unfortunately the sun has set on this fine product ...

Delusional...great word. People who pine for the return of Kodachrome are beyond delusional.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Delusional...great word. People who pine for the return of Kodachrome are beyond delusional.

I agree but are you being too hard on delusional people?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Would some moderator please close this thread?

Please?

 

[RattyMouse]

I agree but are you being too hard on delusional people?

Hilarious!!!