KA: Kodachrome "just not practical to try to replicate in today's market."

[George Mann]

How about a true Kodacolor reversal film?

 

[cmacd123]

How about a true Kodacolor reversal film?

you mean dim and lenticular?

 

[mshchem]

Try to keep what we have .

 

[Photo Engineer]

How about a true Kodacolor reversal film?

Explain please.

 

[railwayman3]

What about a film like Dynacolor? Could such a film be viable today?

Wasn't Dynacolor (or was it Dynachrome?) a clone of Kodachrome using the same process ? I believe that, back in the early 1960's, the UK firm "Gratispool" supplied and processed this as their own-brand film.......I have some Gratispool slides from 1963 taken by my late Grandfather, which certainly look similar in appearance to the original 10ASA Kodachrome.

 

[George Mann]

Explain please.

A reversal film with true Kodacolor rendering?

 

[George Mann]

Wasn't Dynacolor (or was it Dynachrome?) a clone of Kodachrome using the same process ?

I don't know what the process involved. I just like the result.

 

[Photo Engineer]

George, a reversal film with negative film rendering is impossible. The qualities that give the negative film its rendering also make it un-viewable by humans. You must use an additional step to render the image correctly to get that quality. Such a film was made at one time, but only for internal trials, and it proved to be a problem for a variety of reasons.

And, Dynacolor was indeed reversal film with an ISO of 10. They went out of business when EK came out with the new process, and the plant sat idle here in Rochester for years as vandals gradually destroyed the remains. It finally burned to the ground about 10 years ago and remains a vacant lot afaik.

PE

 

[George Mann]

George, a reversal film with negative film rendering is impossible. The qualities that give the negative film its rendering also make it un-viewable by humans. You must use an additional step to render the image correctly to get that quality. Such a film was made at one time, but only for internal trials, and it proved to be a problem for a variety of reasons.

I would settle for a series of reversals with the color profiles of Ektar and ColorPlus. Is this doable?

 

[George Mann]

Well, I guess that one will have to resort to shooting digital to get rendition they are looking for!

 

[hirudin]

To add one perspective on the return of P3200.... I, for one, am very excited about TMax 3200; Kodak films intensify beautifully. With VMI and I can rate the film up to 51,200 and reclaim the negative in the intensifier with great tonality. Ilford Delta 3200, on the other hand, just does not seem to respond to intensifiers... I've tried with chromium, silver and VMI and it barely makes a difference.

 

[RattyMouse]

To add one perspective on the return of P3200.... I, for one, am very excited about TMax 3200; Kodak films intensify beautifully. With VMI and I can rate the film up to 51,200 and reclaim the negative in the intensifier with great tonality. Ilford Delta 3200, on the other hand, just does not seem to respond to intensifiers... I've tried with chromium, silver and VMI and it barely makes a difference.

Got an example of P3200 shot at 52000?

 

[1L6E6VHF]

Wasn't Dynacolor (or was it Dynachrome?) a clone of Kodachrome using the same process ? I believe that, back in the early 1960's, the UK firm "Gratispool" supplied and processed this as their own-brand film.......I have some Gratispool slides from 1963 taken by my late Grandfather, which certainly look similar in appearance to the original 10ASA Kodachrome.

It had been Dynacolor (yet, a slide and movie reversal film) at the beginning before they changed the name to Dynachrome (presumably because people may have mistaken Dynacolor for a negative film).
Dynachrome did not simply go out of business when Kodachrome II was introduced. They introduced a new Dynachrome 25 whilst retaining the older K-11 Process.

Later, 3M and Ferrania became involved. Dynachrome would be better known by the Sears and Wards names. 25 was still K-11 for a few years, but 64 was non-substantive film made it Italy from the start. The K-11 Dynachrome 25 was dropped and replaced with an Italian non-substantive 25 which did not last long at all.

The 64 speed product continued well into the seventies before E6 Scotchchrome 100 replaced it.

 

[twelvetone12]

I got curious about Dynachrome and found out there was a seemingly Kodachrome-compatibile film made by Ilford called Ilfachrome (note the "a"), in the 60s, but unfortunately I could not find much more info.

 

[cmacd123]

Later, 3M and Ferrania became involved. Dynachrome would be better known by the Sears and Wards names. 25 was still K-11 for a few years, but 64 was non-substantive film made it Italy from the start. The K-11 Dynachrome 25 was dropped and replaced with an Italian non-substantive 25 which did not last long at all.
The 64 speed product continued well into the seventies before E6 Scotchchrome 100 replaced it.

in the 1960s the local photofinsher (which I belive was a 3M branch) offered free rolls of Film with each roll processed, and the B&W film was called "DynaPan. the package was redesigned to look very much like the theme that Film Ferrania is using for their P30, although the Dynapan box was brown and blue and had a 3M logo.

I also had a project in High school where I used a 126 Camera to shoot some slides on Dynachrome slide film, which came back in mounts that said 3M

 

[fdonadio]

I would settle for a series of reversals with the color profiles of Ektar and ColorPlus. Is this doable?

I guess he’s trying to explain to you that a reversal film could have the color profile of a negative film and paper combination, not only of the film.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I would settle for a series of reversals with the color profiles of Ektar and ColorPlus. Is this doable?

Probably not.

 

[Prof_Pixel]

And, Dynacolor was indeed reversal film with an ISO of 10. They went out of business when EK came out with the new process, and the plant sat idle here in Rochester for years as vandals gradually destroyed the remains. It finally burned to the ground about 10 years ago and remains a vacant lot afaik.

PE

When I was interviewing for jobs before I graduated in 1962, one of the companies I interviewed was DuPont in Parlin,NJ and they had just killed a Kodachrome copy project because of the new Kodak Kodachrome II introduction. (The original patents on Kodachrome having expired.)

 

[Lionel1972]

Today's film market is very different from what is was in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's. Many people rely on their experience of how this market used to be and how it evolved back then, but it is pointless. No one can predict how a reintroduction of Kodachrome would be received today or tomorrow if given the right marketing and publicity. Kodachrome is like an extinct species, don't you think there would be some interest if one could bring back mammoths or dinosaurs today? Today's market is populated with youngsters who enjoy discovering and getting a physical connection with the gear and physical medium of what embodies an illustrious history of photography which analog photography is to them. They also enjoy exploring odd films and processes. If I were Jeff Clarke and wanted to awe the world and to put Kodak's name on everyone's mind and on everyone's mouth around the world again, after relaunching Ektachrome, I would reintroduce Kodachrome not only in 35mm but also in 120 and sheet film formats with in house processing (through mailers). Even if the film itself weren't profitable, all the publicity it would generate for all Kodak products and services would counter balance the loses easily. Oh and if he would want to support the global network of still existing labs, he would dig up those K-lab blue prints, update them with today's computer and automation technology and rent them to all those local labs who would then offer a service customers can't do at home. And please no E6 Kodachrome wanna be. It would be easier of course and so deceiving that it would ruin the awe factor of bringing back the difficult but real thing.

 

[peoplemerge]

How big would the kickstarter need to be to incentivize a manufacturer? I imagine this has been tried...

 

[1L6E6VHF]

It had been Dynacolor (yet, a slide and movie reversal film) at the beginning before they changed the name to Dynachrome (presumably because people may have mistaken Dynacolor for a negative film).
Dynachrome did not simply go out of business when Kodachrome II was introduced. They introduced a new Dynachrome 25 whilst retaining the older K-11 Process.

Later, 3M and Ferrania became involved. Dynachrome would be better known by the Sears and Wards names. 25 was still K-11 for a few years, but 64 was a substantive film
(that is, a film with integral color couplers) made in Italy from the start. The K-11 Dynachrome 25 was dropped and replaced with an Italian substantive ASA 25 slide film which did not last long at all.

The 64 speed product continued well into the seventies before E6 Scotchchrome 100 replaced it.

text in italics above are changed from my original post - I had forgotten which was substantive and which was non-substantive. My memory is fading faster than Anscochrome. I'm so old I bought my first roll of Kodachrome, KX-126-20, 45 years ago today.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Today's film market is very different from what is was in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's. Many people rely on their experience of how this market used to be and how it evolved back then, but it is pointless. No one can predict how a reintroduction of Kodachrome would be received today or tomorrow if given the right marketing and publicity. Kodachrome is like an extinct species, don't you think there would be some interest if one could bring back mammoths or dinosaurs today? Today's market is populated with youngsters who enjoy discovering and getting a physical connection with the gear and physical medium of what embodies an illustrious history of photography which analog photography is to them. They also enjoy exploring odd films and processes. If I were Jeff Clarke and wanted to awe the world and to put Kodak's name on everyone's mind and on everyone's mouth around the world again, after relaunching Ektachrome, I would reintroduce Kodachrome not only in 35mm but also in 120 and sheet film formats with in house processing (through mailers). Even if the film itself weren't profitable, all the publicity it would generate for all Kodak products and services would counter balance the loses easily. Oh and if he would want to support the global network of still existing labs, he would dig up those K-lab blue prints, update them with today's computer and automation technology and rent them to all those local labs who would then offer a service customers can't do at home. And please no E6 Kodachrome wanna be. It would be easier of course and so deceiving that it would ruin the awe factor of bringing back the difficult but real thing.

+1

 

[lantau]

Today's film market is very different from what is was in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's.
[...]
No one can predict how a reintroduction of Kodachrome would be received today or tomorrow if given the right marketing and publicity.
[...]

Today's market is populated with youngsters who enjoy discovering and getting a physical connection with the gear and physical medium of what embodies an illustrious history of photography which analog photography is to them. They also enjoy exploring odd films and processes. If I were Jeff Clarke and wanted to awe the world and to put Kodak's name on everyone's mind and on everyone's mouth around the world again, after relaunching Ektachrome, I would reintroduce Kodachrome not only in 35mm but also in 120 and sheet film formats with in house processing (through mailers). Even if the film itself weren't profitable, all the publicity it would generate for all Kodak products and services would counter balance the loses easily.

How big would the kickstarter need to be to incentivize a manufacturer? I imagine this has been tried...

But no one knows for sure. Restarting Kodachrome would probably mean a lot of research recreating what has been lost, or which cannot be redone with todays available materials. Then design and build the machines for development. And that is assuming that they can reuse the scaled down machinery they build for making smaller Ektachrome emulsion batches. Otherwise add those costs.

I guess we're talking millions here. If a company with the wealth of Google or Apple felt fancy they could afford it financially. A few shareholder would ask some critical questions, though. I don't think Kodak is in the financial shape to risk that much money on something that would essentially be a lottery ticket for them. Their marketing budget will not be able to take it either, if you think they should do it simply for the publicity.

And I'm not even sure what a new Kodachrome would provide. What I think of as Kodachrome might be some very old version of it. The few members of the public who still associate a memory with Kodachrome may think similar. Those who love it already will love it. To hit the market real big with it, well again... it's russian roulette.

 

[kruiwagen]

Today's film market is very different from what is was in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's. Many people rely on their experience of how this market used to be and how it evolved back then, but it is pointless. No one can predict how a reintroduction of Kodachrome would be received today or tomorrow if given the right marketing and publicity. Kodachrome is like an extinct species, don't you think there would be some interest if one could bring back mammoths or dinosaurs today? Today's market is populated with youngsters who enjoy discovering and getting a physical connection with the gear and physical medium of what embodies an illustrious history of photography which analog photography is to them. They also enjoy exploring odd films and processes. If I were Jeff Clarke and wanted to awe the world and to put Kodak's name on everyone's mind and on everyone's mouth around the world again, after relaunching Ektachrome, I would reintroduce Kodachrome not only in 35mm but also in 120 and sheet film formats with in house processing (through mailers). Even if the film itself weren't profitable, all the publicity it would generate for all Kodak products and services would counter balance the loses easily. Oh and if he would want to support the global network of still existing labs, he would dig up those K-lab blue prints, update them with today's computer and automation technology and rent them to all those local labs who would then offer a service customers can't do at home. And please no E6 Kodachrome wanna be. It would be easier of course and so deceiving that it would ruin the awe factor of bringing back the difficult but real thing.

+1

Plus the fact that people who shoot film nowadays, take things slow and have a lot of patience in a world where they can have instant gratification. I think a single place of development (at Kodak's through mail orders), would not bear a giant problem for most of the film shooters. Unfortunately, as stated above, the investment risk for Kodak would be too big at this moment. But then again, I've learned to never say never.

 

[cmacd123]

Ron the photo engineer has already said that Kodachrome was hard to coat on the Building 38 coating line, because Kodachrome has some extraordinary THIN layers. all the Kodachrome processing machines have gone to the steel mills to be made into things like car exhaust systems. While Kodak probably still has their notes, they would have to build at least one new processing machine for each major continent.

All the funny organic Chemicals used in the process are likely 100% different from any of the other colour products in the Kodak Lineup. (might be a sensitising Dye or two the same) so the organic chemistry department would have to make a lot of custom chemicals.

All that has to be ready before they can sell a single roll of film.

BY contrast, there is still some e-6 capability "in the field" and so no really effort needs to be expended to ensure that customers CAN get Ektachrome processed. Even at that it has taken a year since they announced it till it will be available for sale.

Kodachrome : It's DEAD JIM! Get over it. (best chance might be if Film Ferrania gets running REALLY REALLY well, and if 3M gave the Italian engineers their the secrets of Dynachrome, (but that was K-11 not K-14.)