Just Cancelled Photoshop

Auer · Mar 13, 2021

If your time is worth nothing, switch to Linux and Gimp.

I laugh at people bitchin about Adobe while using Microsoft Windows.

There are a million reasons why a piece of software can give a user issues.
Old hardware (yes a computer older than 3 years is old) running the same windows installation it came with loaded with spy and bloatware.

I could go on, but it's not ALWAYS the software makers fault.

wiltw · Mar 13, 2021

Pieter12 said:
I believe the subscription model came as a result of widespread bootlegging and stolen software. These are very powerful, sophisticated and complex programs that took time to develop and continue to improve. Adobe does deserve to make money from it. Not that long ago, it took a $150,000 (1980's dollars, too!) computer system in a climate-controlled room, with dedicated software to do 1/10 of what Photoshop can do today on your desktop.

Corel gets more money out of me via its pay-once model than Adobe gets out of me from its pay-every-month extortion model!

Having been in the professional software industry for nearly 10 years, I know the issue of recurring income needed to fund improvement of software products. I do not begrudge Adobe for trying to get recurring income. I do begrudge forcing the same $120 per year ($10 monthly) from EVERY user, regardless of whether it makes income for the user, or not.
Why not $1200 from a user making money from using Adobe products, $120 from a hobbyist, and $12 from a retiree?!
(or whatever nets them what they get from uniformly extorting the same amount from everyone...they can figure that out.)

40 years of $10 per month is really $11819.61 lost, if you simply assume a modest 4% annual return on money invested, rather than spent.

Sirius Glass · Mar 13, 2021

Mal Paso said:
Adobe sent me an email earlier this month to make sure my credit card info was up to date for renewal.

NO Customer Service when you're locked out on a weekend. I'm NOT PAYING FOR THAT!

Call your credit card company and tell them you "lost" the card and three days later you will have a new card with a new number. At the end of the billing cycle Adobe will suddenly give you a whole lot of attention.

Auer said:
If your time is worth nothing, switch to Linux and Gimp.

I laugh at people bitchin about Adobe while using Microsoft Windows.

There are a million reasons why a piece of software can give a user issues.
Old hardware (yes a computer older than 3 years is old) running the same windows installation it came with loaded with spy and bloatware.

I could go on, but it's not ALWAYS the software makers fault.

I do not use Photo$hop, I use GIMP. On my PC laptop I use OpenOffice instead of Micro$oft Windoz; on my Mac Pro Tower I use Micro$oft Word and Excel 2008 that Apple's Time Machine brought over from my 1995 Mac in 2013 when I upgraded my Mac. You Windoz users can go cry in your Rodinal.

Bronson Dugnutt · Mar 13, 2021

wiltw said:
I do begrudge forcing the same $120 per year ($10 monthly) from EVERY user, regardless of whether it makes income for the user, or not.

Our university supplies free creative cloud access to all students, staff, and faculty. As per Joe Camel, this facilitates vendor lock-in early in the process of learning. Think of it as 'sanctioned bootlegging'.

I installed it (creative cloud) after I built a new PC rig 2 years ago (i7-9700K, RTX 2070, 32GB RAM, and an M2 SSD) and the price vs performance was much worse compared to other tools I was already familiar with. I spent more time trying to perform a complete uninstall than I did using it, so take that for what its worth.

Lots of people have lots of experience with the PS suite in no small part due to its age and introduction to students at a young age. If it works for you, more power to you, but always be aware of the unforeseen... like a rogue group or nation state disabling the control servers or using it as a malware vector. Not that any of their tools would have security flaws *COUGH*flash*COUGH*

Auer · Mar 13, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
Call your credit card company and tell them you "lost" the card and three days later you will have a new card with a new number. At the end of the billing cycle Adobe will suddenly give you a whole lot of attention.

I do not use Photo$hop, I use GIMP. On my PC laptop I use OpenOffice instead of Micro$oft Windoz; on my Mac Pro Tower I use Micro$oft Word and Excel 2008 that Apple's Time Machine brought over from my 1995 Mac in 2013 when I upgraded my Mac. You Windoz users can go cry in your Rodinal.

View attachment 269405

Things are different in the walled garden for sure.

Mal Paso · Mar 13, 2021

I never begrudged adobe the money but they have wasted My Time over their insecurity. I have spent WAY MORE MONEY on Amazon and NEVER LOG IN. No Problems.

I dumped microsoft office for security issues. They demanded a Cell Phone Number to use office. THERE IS NO CELL SERVICE HERE.

Bronson Dugnutt · Mar 13, 2021

Mal Paso said:
I never begrudged adobe the money but they have wasted My Time over their insecurity. I have spend WAY MORE MONEY on Amazon and NEVER LOG IN. No Problems.

I dumped microsoft office for security issues. They demanded a Cell Phone Number to use office. THERE IS NO CELL SERVICE HERE.

Mayor Eastwood's doing, no doubt. Don't let it cramp your style too much... like contracting plantar fasciitis from Carmel Beach and the runs from Flaherty's oysters

Good times.

DonW · Mar 13, 2021

I've been using PS since its beginnings. The cloud version is imho the best set of Adobe products released. I have never had a problem with signing in and I'm constantly signing in from different machines.

Whining about the annual fee for the photo package is just juvenile imho when the very same people don't think twice about paying Starbucks prices for coffee.

I'm sorry the OP is having problems. I have the feeling there is more to the story than we have been told.

MattKing · Mar 13, 2021

DonW said:
I have the feeling there is more to the story than we have been told.

And possibly more than the OP is aware of him/herself.
Software that won't work in some circumstances without internet availability is very vulnerable to connection issues.

Bronson Dugnutt · Mar 13, 2021

DonW said:
I've been using PS since its beginnings.

Whining about the annual fee for the photo package is just juvenile imho when the very same people don't think twice about paying Starbucks prices for coffee.

There are probably 2 camps of thought on Adobe: long time users of their software and/or folks with software development expertise. There's a tipping point amongst some software/security specialists where their familiarity with operation of the software no longer outweighs the associated risks, cost, and inconvenience.

Some of us roast and grind our own beans. I specifically tailored my photographic capabilities to be independent of corporate banditry and chaos. If you need electricity or batteries to produce a print... are you really a photographer?

MattKing · Mar 13, 2021

Personally, I like the subscription service model, but think that it should both permit reliable unconnected use and be scalable - heavy users should pay more. Something with modules that can be deactivated (for lower cost) and activated either temporarily or permanently, for flexibility.
Photoshop at its core is a graphics program that has been applied by many to photography. Its powerful graphics capabilities remain unused by most.
Due to the cost of the Adobe subscription, I mostly use Corel products, plus FastStone.

MattKing · Mar 13, 2021

Bronson Dugnutt said:
If you need electricity or batteries to produce a print... are you really a photographer?

My enlargers don't work well without electricity, nor does my source of running water.

Pieter12 · Mar 13, 2021

Some mine their own silver, I'm sure.

Bronson Dugnutt · Mar 13, 2021

MattKing said:
My enlargers don't work well without electricity, nor does my source of running water.

There's always rain and sunshine.

Pieter12 said:
Some mine their own silver, I'm sure.

Bullion and bootstraps, all the way down.

MNM · Mar 13, 2021

wiltw said:
Corel gets more money out of me via its pay-once model than Adobe gets out of me from its pay-every-month extortion model!

Having been in the professional software industry for nearly 10 years, I know the issue of recurring income needed to fund improvement of software products. I do not begrudge Adobe for trying to get recurring income. I do begrudge forcing the same $120 per year ($10 monthly) from EVERY user, regardless of whether it makes income for the user, or not.
Why not $1200 from a user making money from using Adobe products, $120 from a hobbyist, and $12 from a retiree?!
(or whatever nets them what they get from uniformly extorting the same amount from everyone...they can figure that out.)

40 years of $10 per month is really $11819.61 lost, if you simply assume a modest 4% annual return on money invested, rather than spent.

Why lower prices for retirees? What difference does it make whether the product is used for business? And where does the forcing and extortion come into play?

What if the product saved you a hour each month? Can you earn that $10 back with your extra hour?

MattKing · Mar 13, 2021

MNM said:
Why lower prices for retirees? What difference does it make whether the product is used for business? And where does the forcing and extortion come into play?

What if the product saved you a hour each month? Can you earn that $10 back with your extra hour?

A level and quantity of use pricing system would be more appropriate in many ways.
As software is rented, not bought (all software, not just Adobe), the amount one pays should have some connection with one's use.
The other, somewhat tongue in cheek response that occurs to me is: "So when did using photo editing software save anyone any time?"

Bronson Dugnutt · Mar 13, 2021

MattKing said:
"So when did using photo editing software save anyone any time?"

Mostly giclée, sans ink.

MNM · Mar 13, 2021

MattKing said:
A level and quantity of use pricing system would be more appropriate in many ways.
As software is rented, not bought (all software, not just Adobe), the amount one pays should have some connection with one's use.
The other, somewhat tongue in cheek response that occurs to me is: "So when did using photo editing software save anyone any time?"

Some software is used and not rented where no money is exchanged (OSS/FS). If the use of the software incurs cost for the vendor then sure, charge for the bandwidth, storage whatever. If there are no usage-based costs for the vendor then where is the justification for transaction charges? But my real question is, what makes retirees special? Why not by zip code, level of education, IQ or any other factor that might be a better indicator of available funds? I know retirees that bring in as much as my wife and I combined so why should they get a break?

The software saves time achieving a particular goal in less time than alternatives, and that goal is an edited image. For example, one could posit that stopping breathing saves a lot of time, money and trouble. Doesn't do much for accomplishing any human goals or activities though. Or put another way, the most direct way to save time with photography would to never take a photograph.

warden · Mar 13, 2021

I've never heard of a security attack, nor have I experienced one thankfully. The suite of Adobe products has worked perfectly for me from the get-go.

Photoshop is $9.99/mo where I live, and that's an absolute no-brainer for me and I'll gladly rent this software as long as it makes sense to do so. If I only used the software an hour a month it would still be worth it to enjoy the latest technology, but as it turns out I use it every day. Easy peasy.

warden · Mar 13, 2021

MattKing said:
Personally, I like the subscription service model, but think that it should both permit reliable unconnected use and be scalable - heavy users should pay more. Something with modules that can be deactivated (for lower cost) and activated either temporarily or permanently, for flexibility.
Photoshop at its core is a graphics program that has been applied by many to photography. Its powerful graphics capabilities remain unused by most.
Due to the cost of the Adobe subscription, I mostly use Corel products, plus FastStone.

I don't agree that a heavy user should pay a premium so that would be a disincentive for me, just as others are balking about paying for fully featured software when they really just want to invert a negative or whatever.

I also use Cinema4D software for illustration and animation and they went from stand alone software to tiered subscriptions for several years (student to basic to professional and many flavors in-between) and now they just do it like Adobe does, offering complete functionality for $60/mo. It's just the direction software revenue streams are headed.

warden · Mar 13, 2021

wiltw said:
Corel gets more money out of me via its pay-once model than Adobe gets out of me from its pay-every-month extortion model!

Having been in the professional software industry for nearly 10 years, I know the issue of recurring income needed to fund improvement of software products. I do not begrudge Adobe for trying to get recurring income. I do begrudge forcing the same $120 per year ($10 monthly) from EVERY user, regardless of whether it makes income for the user, or not.
Why not $1200 from a user making money from using Adobe products, $120 from a hobbyist, and $12 from a retiree?!
(or whatever nets them what they get from uniformly extorting the same amount from everyone...they can figure that out.)

40 years of $10 per month is really $11819.61 lost, if you simply assume a modest 4% annual return on money invested, rather than spent.

Retirees should pay double.

Actually students and teachers do get a discount on the software which makes sense to me, and business licenses cost more for the suite of programs than individual users, so those of you that think making a profit should mean higher prices for renting the software are already getting your wish. The rest of us pay the going rate.

wiltw · Mar 13, 2021

MNM said:
But my real question is, what makes retirees special? Why not by zip code, level of education, IQ or any other factor that might be a better indicator of available funds? I know retirees that bring in as much as my wife and I combined so why should they get a break?

If a retiree get $1800 per month in income, why not recognize the limited income and take a proportional fraction of income?! No different than fastfood places or grocery stores that offer a senior discount. Seniors get lower rates on Mass Transit systems, too.

If seniors generate NO income from photography, why not make the working pro pay a larger amount, since they make money from the use of Photoshop/Lightroom?!

Students and teachers get a break, why not also retirees who perhaps paid for decades of use of Adobe's products...a loyalty reward?!...some of us first used Photoshop 30 years ago! If I have been using Adobe products and paying for them during my work years, why not give a goodwill 'loyalty reward' to those in retirement years?! It is easy enough for them to know how long someone has been a licensed user. The successful business finds more customers; the really successful businesses KEEP the ones they found!

The way it is right now, it is currently my choice to spend ZERO dollars for Adobe's latest products, I do not need their newest stuff, so why should I pay $120 unnecessarily?! As I stated earlier, MORE MONEY currently goes to Corel each year, not because I 'have to pay monthly'! If Adobe changed its policy, I would periodically spend money with them, just as I do with Corel. Is it not better business to get some money from me, than to get NO money from me?!

Adrian Bacon · Mar 13, 2021

Auer said:
hmh, I log in to Lightroom daily and PS weekly, have ever since they went to a service model.
I wont say I never had any issues, but as it is I cant remember when that was. So not very often.

same here.

Adrian Bacon · Mar 13, 2021

Mal Paso said:
Adobe sent me an email earlier this month to make sure my credit card info was up to date for renewal.

NO Customer Service when you're locked out on a weekend. I'm NOT PAYING FOR THAT!

it makes me wonder if there’s something wrong on your end. I run Lightroom and Photoshop every day and am never asked to log in, except the first time I loaded it on my machine. After that, it just works.

Adrian Bacon · Mar 14, 2021

jawarden said:
I've never heard of a security attack, nor have I experienced one thankfully. The suite of Adobe products has worked perfectly for me from the get-go.

Photoshop is $9.99/mo where I live, and that's an absolute no-brainer for me and I'll gladly rent this software as long as it makes sense to do so. If I only used the software an hour a month it would still be worth it to enjoy the latest technology, but as it turns out I use it every day. Easy peasy.

i suspect a significant number of people are unaware that ~10 dollars a month is a bargain for what you’re getting. My subscription for Adobe is over 50 dollars a month. Per seat.

Just Cancelled Photoshop

Auer

wiltw

Sirius Glass

Bronson Dugnutt

Auer

Mal Paso

Bronson Dugnutt

DonW

MattKing

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Bronson Dugnutt

MattKing

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Pieter12

Bronson Dugnutt

MNM

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Bronson Dugnutt

MNM

warden

warden

warden

wiltw

Adrian Bacon

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Just Cancelled Photoshop

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