Jumping in - I just ordered some Harman Direct Positive Paper

pbromaghin · Aug 26, 2020

My wife caused this. One day she said ,"What's this?", pointing to my 4x5 Cambo Legend. It had been so long since my abortive attempt at large format that she forgot it even existed! That was followed by, "How much did you pay for that?" The final blow was, "So film photography really isn't that cheap if you buy a camera like that and don't use it, is it."

Oh, the shame!

But instead of hanging my head, I decided to seize the day, grab the bull by the horns, take control of my own destiny and start using the damn thing! Except I had no idea how to get past all the things that killed my first attempts - with no scanner that big, and no darkroom, what was the sense in dealing with all the difficulty and complication? Still, the idea percolated in the background until, while organizing the pile of darkroom equipment in the basement I came across a Cibachrome processing drum that I had completely forgotten.

BINGO! in about 3 seconds it all came together - Direct Positive Paper, processed in the drum on a uniroller, using my new changing bag to load it! After a little research, I do have some questions.

1) Harman recommends Multigrade 1+9 or 1+ 14, Warmtone 1+9 and PQ Universal. How do they differ in results? What do you use, and why?

2) How to deal with the steep curve and so much normal highlight being lost off the shoulder>

3) Drying - Should I use one of those shiny, heated dryers with the canvas covers?

4) any tips in general?

JPD · Aug 26, 2020

Let your beard grow, and dye it grey if you have to. The bigger the camera the longer the beard. At least three inches for 4x5, and five inches or longer for 8x10. Buy a khaki photo vest and hat. Reading glasses can also help.Then you can slowly recuperate from the humilation and get your confidence back. Remember that for both amateur and professional photographers it's the image that counts.

RalphLambrecht · Aug 26, 2020

pbromaghin said:
My wife caused this. One day she said ,"What's this?", pointing to my 4x5 Cambo Legend. It had been so long since my abortive attempt at large format that she forgot it even existed! That was followed by, "How much did you pay for that?" The final blow was, "So film photography really isn't that cheap if you buy a camera like that and don't use it, is it."

Oh, the shame!

But instead of hanging my head, I decided to seize the day, grab the bull by the horns, take control of my own destiny and start using the damn thing! Except I had no idea how to get past all the things that killed my first attempts - with no scanner that big, and no darkroom, what was the sense in dealing with all the difficulty and complication? Still, the idea percolated in the background until, while organizing the pile of darkroom equipment in the basement I came across a Cibachrome processing drum that I had completely forgotten.

BINGO! in about 3 seconds it all came together - Direct Positive Paper, processed in the drum on a uniroller, using my new changing bag to load it! After a little research, I do have some questions.

1) Harman recommends Multigrade 1+9 or 1+ 14, Warmtone 1+9 and PQ Universal. How do they differ in results? What do you use, and why?
I used the direct-positive paper and it works well. 2) How to deal with the steep curve and so much normal highlight being lost off the shoulder>

3) Drying - Should I use one of those shiny, heated dryers with the canvas covers?

4) any tips in general?

RalphLambrecht · Aug 26, 2020

I used it and it works well. I works best if the images were taken with a yellow filter to control contrast. This way, I rate it at ISO3. development works well in any good paper developer but, I dilute it further than usual, again to control contrast. he result are a fine positive ready to be framed and mounted. in 4x5, they look very special in a large frame.
best of success.

Sirius Glass · Aug 26, 2020

JPD said:
Let your beard grow, and dye it grey if you have to. The bigger the camera the longer the beard. At least three inches for 4x5, and five inches or longer for 8x10. Buy a khaki photo vest and hat. Reading glasses can also help.Then you can slowly recuperate from the humilation and get your confidence back. Remember that for both amateur and professional photographers it's the image that counts.

Also buy a western hat.

Buying the Harman Direct Positive Paper, puts a positive spin on your situation.

pbromaghin · Aug 27, 2020

JPD said:
Let your beard grow, and dye it grey if you have to. The bigger the camera the longer the beard. At least three inches for 4x5, and five inches or longer for 8x10. Buy a khaki photo vest and hat. Reading glasses can also help.Then you can slowly recuperate from the humilation and get your confidence back. Remember that for both amateur and professional photographers it's the image that counts.

Well, I had to shave the Civil War General Beard because our 4-year-old (at the time) granddaughter said it was too scratchy. (They learn how to rule the world very early.) It was definitely an 8x10 beard and I still have it on my drivers license. No grey dye needed. Would a fishing vest from L.L. Bean work? I started wearing a ballcap a couple years ago when I got sunburn on my 5-head and I have several pairs of reading glasses distributed around the house. Am I alright?

pbromaghin · Aug 27, 2020

RalphLambrecht said:
I used it and it works well. I works best if the images were taken with a yellow filter to control contrast. This way, I rate it at ISO3. development works well in any good paper developer but, I dilute it further than usual, again to control contrast. he result are a fine positive ready to be framed and mounted. in 4x5, they look very special in a large frame.
best of success.

Thank you, I was going to ask about filtering but forgot. So a yellow isn't enough to throw off the ISO from the 3 that Ilford claims? And the yellow tames the expected all-white blue sky?

pbromaghin · Aug 27, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
Also buy a western hat.

Hmmm. Being a Minnesota boy, at first I thought this was going too far, but then, I do live in Colorado now.

JPD · Aug 27, 2020

pbromaghin said:
Well, I had to shave the Civil War General Beard because our 4-year-old (at the time) granddaughter said it was too scratchy. (They learn how to rule the world very early.) It was definitely an 8x10 beard and I still have it on my drivers license. No grey dye needed. Would a fishing vest from L.L. Bean work? I started wearing a ballcap a couple years ago when I got sunburn on my 5-head and I have several pairs of reading glasses distributed around the house. Am I alright?

Sounds good. The more pockets on the vest the better. And if you want that even more respect, wear a pair of reading glasses on the tip of your nose and have one or two extra pairs sticking out from one of the vest pockets. It will signal that you strive for perfection when focusing the camera, or something mysterious only the "initiated" know about.

radiant · Aug 27, 2020

pbromaghin said:
1) Harman recommends Multigrade 1+9 or 1+ 14, Warmtone 1+9 and PQ Universal. How do they differ in results? What do you use, and why?

2) How to deal with the steep curve and so much normal highlight being lost off the shoulder>

3) Drying - Should I use one of those shiny, heated dryers with the canvas covers?

4) any tips in general?

1) I've used Multigrade 1+9 and it works nicely. Also try Caffenol, it rocks! Check my instagram, there is some caffenol developed DP prints (the "love" print is developed in Ilford) https://www.instagram.com/vedostuu/

2) Exposuring DP is a bit more trickier because of the narrow exposure range. Pre-flashing helps so much.

3) I Just hang it to dry and then straighten the print, the normal FB operations, nothing different. You don't need any shiny dryer

4) Have fun, it's a nice product!

@RalphLambrecht Why yellow filter? It isn't multigrade paper? For paper negatives I also use yellow filter of ourse. I have rated the paper to 6 because I'm not using any filter. Also the diluted / old developer I'm using in paper negatives but I've understood that DP papers need to be developed "fully" to have deep blacks?

pentaxuser · Aug 27, 2020

Peter I hope this is not an unnecessary alarmist note on my part but I have a feeling that the Direct Positive paper may not be an exact fit for a 4x5 camera. There is another thread running at the moment that suggests that 4x5 camera darkslides do not quite measure 4x5. Not a problem if you have a darkroom but I note that you mention "no darkroom" in your thread. Nor of course is it a problem if Ilford Direct Positive fits

No-one else has mentioned this so there may be no problem.

pentaxuser

Donald Qualls · Aug 27, 2020

Regular 4x5 paper is a full four inches by five inches and won't fit in a film holder (glass plates in this size were originally full dimension, but the film was made undersize to accomodate the film sheaths that carried film in the old glass plate holders). I've read, however, that Harman Direct Positive is cut to fit film holders -- however, I can't confirm directly. It would make sense, though, as its biggest use seems to be in-camera exposure...

AnselMortensen · Aug 27, 2020

HDP is cut for 4x5 and 5x7 film holders.
I have used both.
I did have some trouble loading 8x10 holders the other day, and am looking into that.

wyofilm · Aug 27, 2020

AnselMortensen said:
HDP is cut for 4x5

+1

Donald Qualls · Aug 27, 2020

AnselMortensen said:
HDP is cut for 4x5 and 5x7 film holders.
I have used both.
I did have some trouble loading 8x10 holders the other day, and am looking into that.

With that confirmation, I might have to order a small box myself. I need to get my 4x5 back into the field, and direct positives are almost as much fun as Polaroids.

pentaxuser · Aug 27, 2020

It certainly makes sense for Ilford to make HDP to fit film holders. I am glad that my worry was unnecessary

pentaxuser

radiant · Aug 27, 2020

Just checked myself: 5x7 negative film and DP are identical sizes. @Donald Qualls is right, a normal darkroom paper at 5x7" is about two millimeters larger in both directions. I myself use "cut film holders" (dunno what that means) and everything fits into those, but for film&DP there is quite a bit slack. One must be careful not to pull the side away from the holding edge.

pbromaghin · Aug 27, 2020

pentaxuser said:
Peter I hope this is not an unnecessary alarmist note on my part but I have a feeling that the Direct Positive paper may not be an exact fit for a 4x5 camera. There is another thread running at the moment that suggests that 4x5 camera darkslides do not quite measure 4x5. Not a problem if you have a darkroom but I note that you mention "no darkroom" in your thread. Nor of course is it a problem if Ilford Direct Positive fits

No-one else has mentioned this so there may be no problem.

pentaxuser

I didn't see any new thread while searching, but there was an older one where this was discussed pretty extensively. Also some youtube videos mention it. I plan on sacrificing a sheet to make sure of the fit, and maybe a 2nd one to see how it works with more than one sheet in the 8x10 Cibachrome tube. It would be a lot more convenient to do more than one at a time without overlapping.

Edit: It shouldn't be necessary to do more than one at a time in the tube. I also have reels to do up to 12 4x5 sheets in a Jobo tank.

pentaxuser · Aug 27, 2020

This is the thread I had in mind Peter but given what has been said about HDP , it doesn't look as it matters in HDP's case
Cutting paper in the dark for 4X5
Discussion in 'Paper Negatives' started by daleeman, Jun 5, 2016.

pentaxuser

cramej · Aug 27, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
With that confirmation, I might have to order a small box myself. I need to get my 4x5 back into the field, and direct positives are almost as much fun as Polaroids.

AnselMortensen said:
HDP is cut for 4x5 and 5x7 film holders.
I have used both.
I did have some trouble loading 8x10 holders the other day, and am looking into that.

I found that it fit my Riteway holders just fine but not Lisco - they were too narrow and wouldn't allow the paper to slide in easily.

RalphLambrecht · Aug 27, 2020

pentaxuser said:
Peter I hope this is not an unnecessary alarmist note on my part but I have a feeling that the Direct Positive paper may not be an exact fit for a 4x5 camera. There is another thread running at the moment that suggests that 4x5 camera darkslides do not quite measure 4x5. Not a problem if you have a darkroom but I note that you mention "no darkroom" in your thread. Nor of course is it a problem if Ilford Direct Positive fits

No-one else has mentioned this so there may be no problem.

pentaxuser

oh; it's a problem;the paper has to be trimmede to fit the film holder and it's not to easy to do so in the dark.

AnselMortensen · Aug 27, 2020

FYI,
HDP is usable with a Deep Red safelight...it is orthochromatic. I use a Kodak GMB-1(?)

pbromaghin · Aug 27, 2020

AnselMortensen said:
FYI,
HDP is usable with a Deep Red safelight...it is orthochromatic. I use a Kodak GMB-1(?)

This little exercise may have jump-started me to actually start creating a room to hold in the darkness. I've been so paralyzed by decisions over plumbing and electric supply that I have done nothing. The minimal requirements for this won't need the sink installed, smooth power to an SuperChromega D, or any or that other fancy stuff - just dark for loading, an extension cord for a safelight and little Durst F-60 for pre-flashing, with daylight processing in the bathroom like now. Print washing can go in the bathtub.

pentaxuser · Aug 27, 2020

If anything all I have seemed to do is to spread confusion for Peter. So does HDP fit only some holders exactly and not others and perhaps more specifically does it fit the 4x5 Cambo Legend which is what he has got? Trimming paper accurately in a changing bag may be quite a problem.

Thanks

pentaxuser

cramej · Aug 27, 2020

pentaxuser said:
If anything all I have seemed to do is to spread confusion for Peter. So does HDP fit only some holders exactly and not others and perhaps more specifically does it fit the 4x5 Cambo Legend which is what he has got? Trimming paper accurately in a changing bag may be quite a problem.

Thanks

pentaxuser

Doesn't matter which camera - could be something homemade for that matter. Best to waste a sheet and test it in your film holders first before trying to load them all up in the dark. I wouldn't bother trimming it unless absolutely necessary.

Jumping in - I just ordered some Harman Direct Positive Paper

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