issues w/ Rodinal and HP5

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by 29neibolt, May 18, 2018 at 12:37 AM.

  1. 29neibolt

    29neibolt Member

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    Hi guys,

    I'm new to developing B&W. I'm using a Paterson tank to develop a roll of HP5, and the attached negatives are what I've ended up with on my first two rolls with the tank (both HP5, both developed 1 roll at a time). Any ideas what could cause this? Am I loading the reel incorrectly? Please and thanks in advance!

    Rodinal (1+50) for 11 minutes w/ 5 slow inversions every minute. Ilfostop for 30 seconds. Ilford rapid fixer for 5 minutes. Rinse. Photo Flo. Scream into a pillow.

    https://imgur.com/43ePKpa
    https://imgur.com/TzPAdvp
     
  2. awty

    awty Subscriber

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    Looks to me to be light leaks. Did you load the film onto the spool in complete darkness? I have had something similar when I have taken too long to load the film and there has been a slither of light come through a crack in the door or something.....Or even a dark bag when I have removed my hand while putting film on the spool.

    If the chemistry is good than your process would not cause that. Any chemistry problems would be more even.
     
  3. howardpan

    howardpan Subscriber

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    I can’t tell from your photos if this is a roll of 120 or 135. It would also be useful to see the entire negative and more frames. I also assume you followed Ilford’s instructions and fixed at 1+4 dilution for 2-4 minutes. Did you get a single good frame?
     
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    29neibolt

    29neibolt Member

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    I loaded it in the same changing bag both times. I've wondered if the elastic bands around the wrist were tight enough so I suspect you're right. I was fussing with the spool for a long time both times as well. I'll try another round loading in a dark room instead. Thank you!
     
  5. awty

    awty Subscriber

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    Yes always good idea to load at night in the dark.
    My change bag has two elastic bands and will still leak if Im not careful. Best to do it in a light proof room, which is far easier to do than a change bag. My hands often sweat in the change bag and the film sticks and it usually ends in tears. You just need to have a cry in your beer, dust yourself off and try again. The more you do the less failures you have, but even after developing hundreds of rolls I still make the occasional mistakes.
    BTW I like rodinal 25:1 @ 20C for 8 mins with hp5......but the difference isnt enough to concern you at this stage.
     
  6. TonyB65

    TonyB65 Member

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    Certainly looks like light leaks and I'd definitely check the lightseals on your camera. It shouldn't be your changing bag as the cuffs usually have a double seal around the arms, one on front of the other. I've never had light leaks from using a changing bag myself. The other thing to check is that your fix is not exhausted, by doing a clip test, which you should do regularly anyway to avoid losing negatives. One other tip, to make loading your reels much easier make sure you don't put them on Photoflo or equivalent, that makes them very sticky (even when dry) and will make loading film onto them a real PITA. Take your film off the reel before you wash in any wetting agent to avoid the inevitable bag fight which happens if you don't.
     
  7. GLS

    GLS Member

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    Use disposable nitrile gloves whilst loading the reels. It makes a world of difference.
     
  8. guangong

    guangong Subscriber

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    While not addressing the specific issue of your thread, I would like to point out that although I do use Rodinal myself, it is not the preferred developer for HP. I’ll probably change when my hord of Agfa Rodinal runs out.
     
  9. GLS

    GLS Member

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    Definitely looks like light leaks of some kind. Check the seals on your camera.

    Also, apologies for the silly question, but just to rule this possibility out: you are using the central column in the Paterson tank right (the one that goes through the reel)? This is a requirement to make the tank light-tight.
     
  10. Ces1um

    Ces1um Subscriber

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    What's up with the very noticeable streaking in the second photo? Looks like many many scratches or squeegee issues.
     
  11. mrosenlof

    mrosenlof Subscriber

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    do you have the center post on your patterson reels? It's essential to form the light trap with the hole in the center of the funnel.
     
  12. mooseontheloose

    mooseontheloose Subscriber

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    I agree - it looks like scratches (from the camera) or light leaks from the shutter not being closed properly when advancing the frame (I have similar looking negatives due to the latter reason).
     
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    29neibolt

    29neibolt Member

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    Thank you so much for all of the input guys! It's really appreciated


    Yeah I hear you re: rodinal not being optimal with hp5. It was more just a test roll that I burned off- I've been using the rodinal for stand developing with 4x5 negatives.

    Lightseals are all good on my camera- I've shot probably 20 rolls of color film with no issue at all. I took my hands out of the cuffs at one point so I'm imagining that is the culprit. I'll give a clip test a try as well, and thanks for the tip re photoflo!

    the black one, right? yes that's in there. The agitation stick does not need to be in, right?

    I think it's from my squeegee- I'll be leaving that out next test.
     
  14. GLS

    GLS Member

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    No, not needed to block out light.
     
  15. Pentode

    Pentode Subscriber

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    Aha!! Now we're getting somewhere!
    Yes, if you took your hands out of the cuffs it's very, very likely to be the culprit.

    Loading reels is a PITA. Doing it in a changing bag is a BIG PITA. The suggestions of the others to load in a blacked-out room is right on the mark. It's really a lot easier.
    Take a sacrificial roll of film and practice with the lights on for a while. Then practice with your eyes closed. Repeat. And repeat. And repeat....
    And then after you've practiced for a while you'll still mess up from time to time. The good news is it really does keep getting easier the more you do it.
    It's a good idea to just shoot a bunch of rolls of mundane stuff around the neighborhood at first so you don't lose anything really important.
    Lastly, and most importantly, make sure you have fun. It's the crux of the whole thing.
     
  16. mooseontheloose

    mooseontheloose Subscriber

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    I did that once too, with Kodak HIE - my hands were really sweaty (this was in the middle of a Japanese summer) and I just couldn't get the film to load properly. There was some fogging, but it was uniform across the roll, so I guess I was lucky with that. So I definitely feel your pain. However, I've been using a changing bag for 13+ years now and I can definitely recommend two things - one, if you have a small bag, try getting a larger one (or even a changing tent). I say this because you mention having the cuffs around the wrists - I put the cuffs on my arms, above my elbows, and still have plenty of room to spare. Having more room/air will keep things cooler and easier to manage. Two, if you know you'll be loading film and it's hot out, crank up the air conditioning much higher than normal for at least 20 minutes prior to changing your film. If the air is really cold your hands are less likely to sweat. At least, that's how it works for me. And, in the event that you just need to take your hand out, just roll up the film quickly and put it in the tank. That way it's in a light tight place while you take your hands out.

    Even though I have a darkroom, it's a pain to make it light tight just to load a few rolls of film, so I prefer using the bag, even after all these years. That, and for some reason standing while loading film always makes me anxious and I'm more likely to f@#% up. But that's just me.
     
  17. Toyo

    Toyo Member

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    Yes, HP5 doesn't like Rodinal/RO9 with agitation.
    I have had good results with HP5 and RO9 and stand development - way less grain and reasonable contrast
    T
     
  18. GLS

    GLS Member

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    I know I already mentioned this, but I can't stress it enough: nitrile gloves are a godsend for film loading. You can get a pack of 100 for a few pounds/dollars (such as these https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nitrile-Po...qid=1526726259&sr=8-6&keywords=nitrile+gloves). They are also a good safety precaution when doing the actual developing too (especially with nastier stuff like pyro), so serve both purposes. Just make sure you get the right size, as ones that are too big will hinder your dexterity and sense of touch.
     
  19. Pentode

    Pentode Subscriber

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    Another useful tip when using a changing bag:
    If you place a cardboard box on its side in the bag, you essentially convert it to a changing tent. The box keeps the fabric up and off your hands so you can work unimpeded. It doesn't help with the sweat, but it still makes things more comfortable.
     
  20. OP
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    29neibolt

    29neibolt Member

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    Alright, guys I can confirm it was in fact my changing bag. Now, I've got a new one for you!

    I shot two test rolls of 120 Ultrafine Extreme 400 with my Pentax 6x7. Here's the first and last three frames of each roll. The first was developed normally, and the second was stand developed. What would cause the last three frames of Roll 2 to turn out like that? Did my fixer gas out?

    ROLL 1
    https://imgur.com/a/xUWtvSx

    Rodinal - 1:49
    Ilfostop
    Ilford Rapid Fixer
    rinse
    Photoflo

    13 min in developer - 1 min initial agitation, then 10 seconds per minute
    45 sec stop bath
    5 min fix


    ROLL 2
    https://imgur.com/a/jcdzfQo

    Rodinal - 1:100
    Ilfostop - half strength
    Ilford Rapid Fixer - used the same batch as Roll 1
    rinse
    Photoflo

    1 hr in developer - 30 sec initial agitation, 3 inversions at halfway point
    1 min stop bath
    6 min fix
     
  21. Pentode

    Pentode Subscriber

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    Whatever it was had to be camera related. Anything chemistry related would have affected the whole roll.
     
  22. mrosenlof

    mrosenlof Subscriber

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    I agree a chemistry problem would hit the entire roll. This one looks like way over exposure through the lens and shutter. Like the shutter stayed open considerably longer than needed. Notice that the film edges are not uniformly over-exposed. Shutter error or operator error seem the two likely reasons to me.
     
  23. awty

    awty Subscriber

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    As the others said, looks to be a major over exposure in camera problem.
    You can and should regularly test your fixer with a little bit of undeveloped film. If you under fix you can tell by the film being cloudy in between frames, just put it back on a development tank spool and refix with new fixer.
     
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