ISO film speed for Holga 120N with defective aperture

[faberryman]

All autoexposure cameras expose correctly some scenes.
That's not being a photographer: that's pressing a button.

Oh brother. Here we go...

 

[warden]

All autoexposure cameras expose correctly some scenes.
That's not being a photographer: that's pressing a button.

A little less gatekeeping would be appreciated. Because it's lame.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Truth doesn't hurt. It's the lies.
And I respect everyone's opinion.
As Matt said, knowledge helps, and as he said too, all cameras can be fun, so enjoy!

 

[Donald Qualls]

Truth doesn't hurt. It's the lies.

The real problems arise when folks can't agree which is which.

 

[warden]

Truth doesn't hurt. It's the lies.

I think you're confusing your opinion with truth, which is the genesis of gatekeeping. Nevermind, enjoy.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Problems for those who don't want to learn, of course.

There's a wonderful way for OP to learn about materials and about his own cameras: use slide film for some months.
Everything will be clear and true.

 

[faberryman]

Problems for those who don't want to learn, of course.

There's a wonderful way for OP to learn about materials and about his own cameras: use slide film for some months.
Everything will be clear and true.

What he will learn is that, when using a camera without a means to adjust shutter speed and aperture, and therefore exposure, shooting with slide film, given its narrow exposure latitude, is a dumb idea. Failing early and often, at great expense, is not the pedagogic method I would recommend.

 

[epp]

So what is different with Holga than with the cameras you already used?

Compared to one with a lot of bells and whistles, only three bells and whistles: lens focus, B/N switch and aperture (if one has a model with a correctly-working aperture).

 

[epp]

If no Holga can allow the photographer to decide aperture and speed in any way (that is new to me: I thought they had at least a few options) then there is just no way to expose film correctly in many situations. For those who consider that is photography, or for those who like that, C-41 films should work better than slide film or B&W film.
And if OP's intention is not learning photography nor exposure, yes, he should stick inside his cameras different ISO films for different types of light.

Some of the early Holga 120N's, did not have a working aperture. I have one of them. Regardless of whether the aperture switch is set to sun or cloudy, the aperture is always on cloudy. More recent Holgas have a correctly-working aperture, but it's been reported online that some Holgas have a backwards aperture. I trust that will be corrected at some point.

 

[epp]

To the OP: as you can tell, some of us here are quite passionate about this stuff!
There are many rewards to be gained from film cameras. Some of them may be easier or quicker or maybe even more satisfying to obtain if you combine some technical knowledge with equipment that allows you to make use of it - the fully adjustable SLRs and the like that are referenced above.
But there is joy and fulfillment found in many places.
I started out with one of these, 55+ years ago, at the age of 8:
View attachment 296093

Indeed!

When I looked at some of the older cameras, it reminded me of a toy 'spy' camera I also had, after I was given the Baby Brownie Special. It was made of plastic, also took 127 film, but had two red windows on the back, to accommodate 16 images. I recall it was somewhat smaller than the Baby Brownie Special, but it could fit in a shirt pocket.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

What he will learn is that, when using a camera without a means to adjust shutter speed and aperture, and therefore exposure, shooting with slide film, given its narrow exposure latitude, is a dumb idea. Failing early and often, at great expense, is not the pedagogic method I would recommend.

Hi,
Using slide film to learn precise exposure is not a dumb idea: it's the way it was done where I cursed my career in Photography in Europe. A negative will never show epp how he exposed unless he becomes an expert B&W printer first.
Apart, if epp scans a poorly exposed negative, the new digital file will hide in part that poor exposure, so, again, he won't have a clue.
It seems like you want to discuss, more than help OP.
He's the one who talked about he doesn't know what to do, so telling him not to change his strategies is what's not pedagogic in any way.
First I recommended him to learn about materials, equipment and light, and then I told him to see exposure clearly through an appropriate media.
You've done nothing.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Hi epp,
Good luck with your journey !

 

[faberryman]

Using slide film to learn precise exposure is not a dumb idea: it's the way it was done where I cursed my career in Photography in Europe.

How does one learn precise exposure with a camera that does not have a means for setting exposure?

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Faberryman: what epp can learn from slide film, is how far from perfect every exposure is, no matter the camera, and no matter if he uses an Holga without (enough) controls. That's what he needs.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

How does one learn precise exposure with a camera that does not have a means for setting exposure?

It doesn't matter: anyway he's exposing film with that camera.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

He learns by seeing how off the frame is.

 

[epp]

Faberryman: what epp can learn from slide film, is how far from perfect every exposure is, no matter the camera, and no matter if he uses an Holga without (enough) controls. That's what he needs.

I learned that with the Seagull (trying to figure out the f-stops), although I have no interest in slide film.

 

[Dali]

Compared to one with a lot of bells and whistles, only three bells and whistles: lens focus, B/N switch and aperture (if one has a model with a correctly-working aperture).

So follow Craig75's film recommendation. As long as you adjust the film to the light condition (sunny / overcast / indoor), you should be fine and get acceptable negatives from your Holga (with or without working aperture setting).

 

[warden]

I have acquired a second Holga 120N, which has a correctly-working aperture, with a third on the way, due tomorrow. Don't know if the third will also have a correctly-working aperture, or if it will be a Sunrise-made Holga, which I've read online have apertures that are backwards.

My original 120N does not have the working aperture (bought in 2007), it moves but the size of the hole is the same regardless of what the sun/cloud switch is set to. Regarding this camera, I know to use ISO 100 film on sunny days, but would it be best to use ISO 400 film on cloudy/gray days or nights, or perhaps ISO 200 on cloudy and ISO 400 during nights or gray/dark days? I would use B&W film.

Thanks..

You might’ve said this already, but do you develop your own film? Have you tried using the massive dev chart app? It’s useful for challenges like this and has a handy calculator, timers, etc.

I just use Tmax 400 film in my Holga because it’s such a flexible film. In bright conditions I develop the film as if it were an ISO 200 film, and in shady conditions I develop it as an ISO 400 - 1600 film. That works.

I’ve never used the camera at night though, so for that I agree with others that are suggesting ISO 3200 films.

 

[Craig75]

I think Donald and warden 's suggestion is better than mine. You could totally get away with just 400 speed film or xp2 for all Yr day time shots outside.

Anything else (indoors, Dawn, dusk etc) you will need a very fast film but you could do away with 100 speed film too and simplify Yr life even more

 

[Brian B Bednarek]

How does one learn precise exposure with a camera that does not have a means for setting exposure?

You ultimately learn to read a scene and understand what works best within the parameters of what you have available to use.

 

[Donald Qualls]

using a camera without a means to adjust shutter speed and aperture, and therefore exposure, shooting with slide film,

I haven't seen them in a while, but somewhere I have a strip of Ektachrome that I shot (around 1974) in a Baby Brownie. Every exposure looks fine, at least by holding the strip up to the light (4x6 doesn't fit a slide mount for any projector I've had access to).

It is possible, just not dependable.

 

[epp]

You might’ve said this already, but do you develop your own film? Have you tried using the massive dev chart app? It’s useful for challenges like this and has a handy calculator, timers, etc.

I just use Tmax 400 film in my Holga because it’s such a flexible film. In bright conditions I develop the film as if it were an ISO 200 film, and in shady conditions I develop it as an ISO 400 - 1600 film. That works.

I’ve never used the camera at night though, so for that I agree with others that are suggesting ISO 3200 films.

I have never developed my own film, do not have the space for it.

I previously used a local lab or mail order, but since all of the local labs have closed, once I start using the cameras, I will have to use mail order. I've read The Darkroom does excellent work, so I may give them a try. I once tried a point and shoot camera at night, I recall the images didn't come out too well, I may have used the wrong speed film in it. Back then, film speed was unknown to me, but now I know 100 is slower than 200.

 

[epp]

So follow Craig75's film recommendation. As long as you adjust the film to the light condition (sunny / overcast / indoor), you should be fine and get acceptable negatives from your Holga (with or without working aperture setting).

Makes sense.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I have never developed my own film, do not have the space for it.

FWIW, it takes very little space to develop film. A kitchen sink or bathroom counter and a flat place to lay out a changing bag, plus room for a medium sized box to store chemicals, developing tank, and changing bag.

Just saying -- the equipment will pay for itself after only two or three rolls at lab prices for B&W. The trick then is scanning, but if you have a phone with a decent camera, you can beat that with little additional outlay and almost no further space needs. No, you won't get 60 megapixels from your negatives, but you almost never actually need that much resolution (and my first-gen Pixel could get 10-12 megapixel from a 6x6, if I didn't already have a flatbed that can get 80 megapixels).