Is Ultrafine Xtreme 400 Discontinued?

[Ariston]

Man, I didn't realize how much I love this cheap bulk film until I couldn't get it any more. It has been "out of stock" for awhile. Does anyone know anything about it - is it discontinued?

 

[Donald Qualls]

Photo Warehouse (aka Ultrafine Online) in general is very close-mouthed about both the sources and production/repackaging status of their "house brand" films. As I recall, however, Ultrafine Extreme hasn't been available on the site for a good while -- a couple years? -- which would seem to suggest it's been replaced by the Ultrafine Finesse products.

 

[Ariston]

I just called Photo Warehouse, and the gentleman said he isn't hopeful about getting it again. He said they have moved on to Finesse (as you say, Donald), but that it is from a different manufacturer. He said that he can't say who produced the Xtreme because their contract with the manufacturer prohibits it, but that the manufacturer is in a different country. He said he didn't know if the pandemic messed up their production or what, but that PW just couldn't get a commitment out of them.

It's a real shame. The Finesse stuff isn't as pleasing to me. I wish someone who knows how to match up all these curves would test and find out who produces that film, like someone did when Kodak started making Fuji products.

 

[Paul Howell]

Too bad, as price had gone up I had switched back to Foma, then wanted to buy more 400 and 100 in 120, and while Finess is ok it is only available in 35mm bulk.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Then run out and buy up all that you can find to keep it from the hoarders!

 

[Steven Lee]

This is Kentmere. I've been shooting both simultaneously, mixing them in the same developing tank and getting absolutely identical results. So if you love it you can just buy Kentmere. BUT... Kentmere is not available in 120 and yes that sucks.

 

[Paul Howell]

I found Kentmere and Ultrafine Ext to be similar, both lack the anti halogen layer, development times are very close. I use Foma as my walk around film as living in the Desert I find that I need the anti halogen layer. I do keep a few rolls of Kentmere on hand to use with my 35mm point and shoots. Otherwise Tmax 400.

 

[Ariston]

I don't know about this guy's processes, but his examples of Kentmere and Ultrafine look different to me:

Stephen Daugherty Photography - Kentmere 400 vs Ultrafine Extreme 400 10/17/2019

Head to head comparison between two economy black & white films.

stephend.photo

 

[AZD]

I have used Kentmere 100 and Ultrafine Extreme 100 interchangeably. Whatever difference there may be between them is effectively lost in developing and printing variables. Both are very sharp, have nice grain, and the crappy antihalation layer lends some character.

I recently picked up some Kentmere 400 to compare but haven’t gotten to it yet. Hopefully it’s close because Ultrafine Extreme 400 was a great general purpose film. The unprocessed film looks and feels identical, though of course that doesn’t mean it is.

in any case, I really miss those100 foot rolls for under $40.

 

[abruzzi]

He said that he can't say who produced the Xtreme because their contract with the manufacturer prohibits it, but that the manufacturer is in a different country.

well, that eliminates Kodak (but nobody thought it was Kodak), but no one else..

I liked the 100 back when I shot more 35mm, and yeah...$33 for a 100 ft roll was exceptional.

 

[koraks]

I don't know about this guy's processes, but his examples of Kentmere and Ultrafine look different to me:

Stephen Daugherty Photography - Kentmere 400 vs Ultrafine Extreme 400 10/17/2019

Head to head comparison between two economy black & white films.

stephend.photo

That comparison doesn't allow any conclusions to be drawn about the kind of question asked. It's amusing, but has no real value other than that.

 

[gone]

The photography business, such as it is, is really screwy. Having a seller refuse to say where something is made is unheard of in any other business or art form. What's even screwier is that we think that's OK.

At least that's my opinion, and I won't say where I got that opinion either. Pfffft!

 

[koraks]

Having a seller refuse to say where something is made is unheard of in any other business or art form

Nonsense.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Having a seller refuse to say where something is made is unheard of in any other business or art form.

All a question of the contract between manufacturer and reseller. As long as US FTC requirements ("Made in XXX" labeling) are met, it's up to those signing the contract. Didn't that film have one of those labels on each box? That label tells pretty much the whole story, I'd think -- only Germany has more than one choice, unless they get away with "Made in EU".

 

[Paul Howell]

There is long a history of rebranded house film, Ansco, GAF, Fuji, 3M, Defender all sold film to department and discount chains, as well as mail order firms. Kmart sold GAF, color and black and white as Focal, it was never disclosed as GAF.

 

[reddesert]

When I go to Safeway, I pick up a box of house-brand cereal and then I hold up the checkout line demanding that the cashiers tell me whether it came from the General Mills cereal factory or just some contract manufacturer. But the last time I went, the security guard wouldn't let me in the door and I can't figure out why.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The big difference between your example, @reddesert , and Photo Warehourse, is that there are only about half a dozen facilities on Earth capable of coating quality film, and it's a multimillion dollar investment to set up a new one. Manufacturing cereal, on the other hand, requires far less resources to set up and minor variances in the process become minor variances in the final product -- meaning the Tasty-Os don't taste exactly like Cheerios, but they're still obviously donut shaped crunchy oat cereal with a minimum of additives. Produce film that's off spec, and you'll get lots of upset former customers (or in today's climate, you'll get about half a dozen customer who warn off all the others who might have been).

 

[koraks]

@Donald Qualls , while you're correct in a technical sense, none of that argumentation bears much relevance to the question if a reseller is likely to tell you where they source their products from. The sentiment expressed earlier that it's an unheard of practice to not tell people when asked, in turn bears no relationship with reality. Both in the B2C and B2B realms, it's very common indeed that a seller won't tell you who sold them the product you're holding in your hands, even if it's a public secret anyway.

 

[reddesert]

Clearly I was not entirely serious, but I think one might be surprised about how large a cereal factory is, and how many different foods/brands come from a small number of plants. Plus, if a food product changes a little, the customers do notice and there can be complaints. We've seen some of the effects of manufacturing bottlenecks during recent pandemic induced "supply chain difficulties."

I actually thought of this example because as a child I would visit cousins in Minnesota and there was a contract maker cereal factory in their town. You could get the factory cereal in big plastic bags in local stores only, but I think most of their production went to house-brand Tasty-Os and the like.

 

[MattKing]

It is a bit more relevant if the re-purposed film originated as traffic surveillance or aero recognizance stock.
If instead is just a general purpose film recipe that one of the toll coaters is prepared to tweak for a customer, as long as the toll coater has decent quality control it probably doesn't matter.

 

[foc]

There is another question.

Will knowing who makes the film, make you a better photographer?

 

[Steven Lee]

There is another question.
Will knowing who makes the film, make you a better photographer?

Meh. This is a cheap shot. Every active thread on Photrio can be shut down like this. These days all you need to become a great photographer is a smartphone.

We are doing this to have fun. Whatever brings in the fun works. A pre-war folder? Caffenol? Fuk ye. Becoming a better photographer is a happy accident, a welcome byproduct of our shenanigans.

 

[Paul Howell]

Knowing who makes a film does not make me a better or worse photogpghers, but it can make my life easier. Knowing if a film is repurposed lets me know if I need to use a special developer, how the film will respond to filters, and what to expect in terms of quality control. That's why I test new films, even my walk around films, other wise Tmax 400 and 100.

 

[AnselMortensen]

Shall we bring generic medications into this discussion?
Hmmmm?

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

The closest solution is HP5+, with a little less shutter action...
We pay a bit more, but we enjoy a lot more versatility.