Is there really a strong interest in film photography?

[Alan Edward Klein]

God, no. I absolutely hate taking pictures with an iPhone (or other). A camera for me has to feel like an extension of my eye, the iPhone is this wobbly thing held a foot and a half away from my face. I only use it a last resort or for note-taking--like where all the wires connect before I take something apart.

And for snapping part number labels from refrigerators and other equipment.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

The fees to customers are at least partially due to the fact that the fees paid by the retailer vary with the type of card used. If you pay with a bare bones card which doesn't return points or benefits to you, the merchant pays the credit card company less than if your card has a bunch of rewards attached to it.

The problem is the 3.25% surcharge is charged to all of their customers. So if you have a cheap card and get no points, you're getting screwed more than the guy who pays for a better credit card. Another advantage of a better credit card is that they cover travel insurance and extend warranty periods another year. Some even pick up damage if you should break it by dropping it.

 

[MattKing]

A few? I met a guy who owned a small neighborhood gas station in Queens, NYC, 35 years ago, where some people paid cash for gas and overnight parking. He use to put $2000 a week in cash in his pocket. "That's for me.," he told me. He didn't report it to the IRS or the divorce court when he left his wife.

That certainly wouldn't be possible now. The gas companies control the pump price, and they and the taxing authorities track everything!
The people I've known in the industry say that the individual station owners make more money from the convenience stores that have replaced all the service bays than they make on the gas - thus the quickly accelerating disappearance of gas stations around here.
From 5 years ago: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...vancouver-last-gas-station-for-sale-1.4066658

 

[logan2z]

This thread has really run the gamut

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

That certainly wouldn't be possible now. The gas companies control the pump price, and they and the taxing authorities track everything!
The people I've known in the industry say that the individual station owners make more money from the convenience stores that have replaced all the service bays than they make on the gas - thus the quickly accelerating disappearance of gas stations around here.

There are plenty of people who pay cash because they too work a cash business and don't report much of it to the IRS either. So they buy gas and covenience items for cash at gas stations along with restaurant dinners, and loads of other stuff. They go into B&H and plop down $5200 in tens and twenties for a new Leica M6. (just to keep this about film).

You're right about keeping track. Often it's the state taxing authorities who are getting screwed out of sales taxes.

 

[MattKing]

This thread has really run the gamut

Yep - got sucked in again!
mea culpa
Now I better go report myself for off topic posting!

 

[Cholentpot]

This thread has really run the gamut

I love it when this happens.

 

[Mike Lopez]

I certainly didn’t anticipate setting off this much of a dialogue…

To be clear, I make extensive use of a credit card that kicks 2% into one of my retirement accounts. And, coincidentally, my wife and I happen to be in Amsterdam right now, having spent the past week in Rome, and our flights were practically free because of credit card rewards that she had accumulated. My main gripe is that, when I hand my son a $5 bill to go grab a pretzel from a concession stand at a football game, and he returns to tell me that I need to go back and buy it myself using a credit card, there’s a bit of an annoyance factor that was never there before. And in my experience, practically all credit card interfaces now prompt the buyer for a tip (in the service industry). So to avoid getting the side eye from the concessionaire, I tack on the 18% tip as well. And all they had to do was hand me a pretzel that was already within arm’s reach…the cost of everything is going up!

 

[VinceInMT]

When I can, I pay with my camera, the iPhone that is. However, when I am buying something at a locally owned business, I write a check or use cash so they don’t get stung with the fee.

(There, I made that comment photography-related, sort of.)

 

[Mike Lopez]

At least several of the breweries here are still cash only. Heck, we can still get a fine microbrew for $3/pint. It sort of offsets the rising cost of film.

One of the best beer bars in Portland only takes cash…I need to check in with them more often!

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Ok this is film related. If you use B&H's credit card, they reimburse the sales tax.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

One of the best beer bars in Portland only takes cash…I need to check in with them more often!

The IRS ought to check in more often with them too.

 

[Mike Lopez]

The IRS ought to check in more often with them too.

I’ve thought about that as well, but in the context of cannabis. We have dispensaries all over the place, and those are all cash-only because the stuff has not yet been legalized at the federal level (making wire transactions impossible). Before she retired, my mom ran a credit union. Her tellers could always tell when a pot shop owner was making a deposit because of the smell on the cash!

How much further can we detour this thread?!?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I’ve thought about that as well, but in the context of cannabis. We have dispensaries all over the place, and those are all cash-only because the stuff has not yet been legalized at the federal level (making wire transactions impossible). Before she retired, my mom ran a credit union. Her tellers could always tell when a pot shop owner was making a deposit because of the smell on the cash!

How much farther can we detour this thread?!?

Did the credit union have cameras that took pictures of their customers? Film cameras?

 

[Sirius Glass]

A few? I met a guy who owned a small neighborhood gas station in Queens, NYC, 35 years ago, where some people paid cash for gas and overnight parking. He use to put $2000 a week in cash in his pocket. "That's for me.," he told me. He didn't report it to the IRS or the divorce court when he left his wife.

Until the IRS comes after them. Not all of us are looking for "a way to screw the Man".

 

[Sirius Glass]

I love it when this happens.

It gets old after a while, especially with the OP has asked or raised an interest point.

 

[Agulliver]

I've barely used cash since the start of the pandemic, when the few remaining small businesses that didn't have card readers all got them because there was a worry about cash being passed to multiple hands causing spread of covid. Probably not something we needed to worry about, but it did cause the few remaining businesses and market stalls to obtain card readers. It's really not difficult, I used to run an annual conference on relationships and we had a couple of card readers for selling tickets in the run up to the event and selling books on the day. Outlay was minimal and processing fees were too. Definitely made up for the hassle of needing change. The only time I use cash now is my barber, who i visit 2/3 times a year and doesn't take cards....and I sometimes slip a fiver to a local homeless man.

Regarding photography, I find the most inconvenient thing about my phone camera is the lag between pressing the "shutter" button and something actually happening. But when it does, it's a decent digital camera. And for the majority of people it performs the function once provided by the box camera, Brownie, Instamatic, 110 pocket or Sure Shot.

Sure, many of the folk on this forum don't like using phone cameras. And I can certainly say that sometimes I get out a film camera for casual snapshots. But the public at large are not us....we are the outliers.

That said, there's definitely a large upwards swing in the interest in shooting film. No, there won't be a mini-lab on every street corner offering D&P for pennies. No, there won't be 3200ISO colour film again. No, there won't be film in the dollarpound store costing one dollarpound. Nobody is saying there will. But we might get a handful more discontinued products back, and a handful of interesting new ones....prices and availability will at least stabilise and some more retailers will resume stocking film.

 

[mtnbkr]

Regarding photography, I find the most inconvenient thing about my phone camera is the lag between pressing the "shutter" button and something actually happening. But when it does, it's a decent digital camera. And for the majority of people it performs the function once provided by the box camera, Brownie, Instamatic, 110 pocket or Sure Shot.

Phone cameras are a bit awkward to use compared to a proper camera (film or digital), but they do give good results if you use them within their limitations. I'm almost at the point of doing away with the digital camera (Micro 4/3) and just using film or my phone, but whenever I think I'm ready for that, I run into a situation where my phone isn't good enough and I need the digital ILC.

Chris

 

[VinceInMT]

Ok this is film related. If you use B&H's credit card, they reimburse the sales tax.

I don’t use their credit card and they don’t charge me sales tax. That’s just another advantage of living in non-sales tax state.

 

[VinceInMT]

… But we might get a handful more discontinued products back, and a handful of interesting new ones....prices and availability will at least stabilise and some more retailers will resume stocking film.

If money can be made, products will be produced. Usually. I long for a reintroduction of Agfa Brovira papers but don’t expect that to happen and have learned to adapt. On the other hand, I am surprised how I can go buy parts for my 1965 Triumph TR4 from various vendors. Heck, pick up a Moss Motors catalog and if I have the frame I can almost build a completely new car from the parts available for a car whose manufacturer folded in 1984.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Until the IRS comes after them. Not all of us are looking for "a way to screw the Man".

Never mind the IRS. His wife came after him.

 

[Helge]

First you need to know exactly what it was that I designed, which led to the Laserdisc and similar formats.

https://vinylfanatics.com/analoglovers/page17.html

analog

Since I was not directly involved in many of these projects, I may not be able to answer all of your inquiries.

That sounds very interesting.

An actual commercial version could either have used the Laserdisc for with a decoder. dbx and CX would have been interesting.
(Interesting to think about what a version of dbx for film would be? Preflashing and then pulling contrast? Various development strategies?).

Or a new format, with tighter tracks like the one Sony was planning could have been a possibility.

Tighter tracks (2x or more) would also have allowed a whole two hour movie on one side.

The CD was really a pretty stupid format. Too big for pockets and too small to put a lot of data on and potentially compromising SQ.

There is a story that Sony and Philips was actually scared that people would start to put whole artists outputs on single or double sided discs. Cheapening music and dissolving the album format.
That is supposed to be the real reason they went with a smaller disc.

 

[Agulliver]

My local university brought back film photography and darkroom techniques last year.

Out of interested I looked at the local sixth form college (age 16-18 education) and was delighted to see they've done the same for their photography course.

"You will learn about traditional and contemporary photographic techniques. You will learn how to take black and white photographs, using manual 35mm cameras. Developing, printing and darkroom techniques will be a core part of the course. Digital cameras will also be used and image manipulation working with computers and software such as Adobe Photoshop. You will explore studio techniques and experimental photography through a strong emphasis on creativity and personal expression as well as skills and techniques."

No wonder the local camera shop has been full of kids buying film.

And the course appears to be oversubscribed this year. I'm looking into whether they'll rent out their dark room to local residents because I can walk there from home

 

[VinceInMT]

My local university brought back film photography and darkroom techniques last year.

The university that I just graduated from still teaches film. A few years ago, when I took Photo 1, it was all film and traditional printing until the end of the semester when we scanned our negatives. Photo 2 was all digital. When Covid hit they had to close the darkroom and taught digital in Photo 1. Now they have reintroduced film as Photo 2.

The philosophy is that, aside from teaching about approaches to contemporary art, they want students exposed (no pun intended) to as many processes as possible allowing them to choose what is best for their own work.

 

[pbromaghin]

The university that I just graduated from still teaches film. A few years ago, when I took Photo 1, it was all film and traditional printing until the end of the semester when we scanned our negatives. Photo 2 was all digital. When Covid hit they had to close the darkroom and taught digital in Photo 1. Now they have reintroduced film as Photo 2.

The philosophy is that, aside from teaching about approaches to contemporary art, they want students exposed (no pun intended) to as many processes as possible allowing them to choose what is best for their own work.

I just found a community college in Golden, CO that teaches darkroom. Actually, I found the instructor, who was selling some paper online, and he told me about it. They have a dozen Beseler 23Cs and 2 4x5s. After retiring next spring, I'm going back to college at 66!