Is there really a strong interest in film photography?

[Alan Edward Klein]

Maybe that will leave only the most dedicated non-digital photographers to use large format, collodion process.

Film's appeal to me is the entire process and my control over it, from choice of film to processing and printing in a darkroom. What will kill film for me would be the lack of photographic printing paper, which will probably go first given the number of film users who just scan and (maybe) make inkjet prints.

I wouldn't worry about it. They still make horseshoes.

 

[Pieter12]

I wouldn't worry about it. They still make horseshoes.

Wait, let me get out my dwell meter and points file.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Most places around NYC have eliminated manned toll booths. You pay with a mounted E-Z Pass on your windshield. Or they send the bill in the mail capturing your license plate by camera and you pay a much higher fee by mail-in check for the pleasure of crossing the George Washington Bridge or Lincoln Tunnel into NYC. Well, it;s the only way to get to B&H from NJ.

Save money and move back to New York City.

 

[kal800]

The production of good 35mm and Med Format cameras started to die off in the early to mid 2000's and when they are worn out and cannot be repaired, or the price of film increases because the quantity being produced makes it phenomenally expensive, even the most dedicated film user will give up. Not because they want to, it will be availability of cameras coupled with the prohibitive cost of film

I would rather worry about some possible green BS regulations making chemicals needed for the materials unavailable. Film is being made by small companies and they are doing well, otherwise for example resurrected Kodak would be dead by now. Currently there is rather an issue of too much demand - I've ordered one pack of film from German Fotoimpex two weeks ago, they've begun processing it just two days ago and their webpage displays that due to high order volume, there are delays in shipping. I wouldn't worry about the gear as well. Yes, that is right, that there are no brand new 135 and 120 film cameras in production, but there is abundance of cameras still on the used market. Properly maintained the cameras from golden era - eighties/nineties will last another decades without any problems. There are LF lenses with Compur mech being a century old and still in working condition. Semi pro or pro grade equipment of top producers was build with utmost perfection - to last, not to die after warranty wears off.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Save money and move back to New York City.
View attachment 322850

Actually, they just raised the bridge and tunnel tolls by $1 and the highways by 3%. It's cheaper to pay the shipping fees from B&H.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Actually, they just raised the bridge and tunnel tolls by $1 and the highways by 3%. It's cheaper to pay the shipping fees from B&H.

Is the New Jersey sales tax less?

 

[Sal Santamaura]

My observation after reading all 45 pages of this thread: self-delusion is good for the psyche.

 

[VinceInMT]

Wait, let me get out my dwell meter and points file.

Funny you should mention those, I’m out in the garage doing an oil change and these are on my workbench.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Is the New Jersey sales tax less?

Yes. Even more savings not to drive to NYC. Sales tax: 8.875%=NYC 6.625%=NJ

 

[VinceInMT]

Yes. Even more savings not to drive to NYC. Sales tax: 8.875%=NYC 6.625%=NJ

We have lots of folks coming here from Wyoming for the same reason.

Someone I know quite well, who shall go unarmed, lives in a high sales tax state and when this person buys a very expensive item, particularly one that is lightweight, it is shipped to me and then I ship it back to them. I suppose that’s a type of tax laundering.

Not only are we a non-sales tax state, we do not have vehicle inspections and once one is 10 years old, registration is permanent. All toys receive permanent registration from new: boats, motorcycles, 4-wheelers, etc.

If you order from Photographers Formulary, which is across the state from where I live, you shouldn’t have to pay tax, or do you?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

We have lots of folks coming here from Wyoming for the same reason.

Someone I know quite well, who shall go unarmed, lives in a high sales tax state and when this person buys a very expensive item, particularly one that is lightweight, it is shipped to me and then I ship it back to them. I suppose that’s a type of tax laundering.

Not only are we a non-sales tax state, we do not have vehicle inspections and once one is 10 years old, registration is permanent. All toys receive permanent registration from new: boats, motorcycles, 4-wheelers, etc.

If you order from Photographers Formulary, which is across the state from where I live, you shouldn’t have to pay tax, or do you?

I think you typed it wrong and meant to say that he shipped it to your neighbor who returned it to him.

 

[Agulliver]

I wouldn't worry about it. They still make horseshoes.

I shall only mention education in passing, because it's the sector I've worked in for the past 23 years. A few years ago the list of "top 10 growing jobs where you can get a good apprenticeship" in the UK included blacksmithing. Then last year I happened to strike up a conversation with a blacksmith who said he'd taken on an apprentice straight from school and had directed two more interested kids to other blacksmiths. These things haven't disappeared.

As for film, I would like to see the industry analysis which draws some to the conclusion that "it's just a fad" or "Fuji want to sell off their film division".

our friend Henning has often pointed out that the increase in film sales year on year has been happening for some five years already and shows no sign of slowing down. And that Fuji's film division is responsible not just for 35mm and 120 films but Instax, which is a *huge* deal that they'd be mad to sell off.

 

[koraks]

I would like to see the industry analysis which draws some to the conclusion that "it's just a fad"

For the obvious reason that nobody can predict the future, this analysis is never going to be presented. Neither is a 100% reliable analysis that tells the opposite. So for all intents and purposes, this is a moot point.

or "Fuji want to sell off their film division".

Given Fuji's habits of communicating with the outside world, claims like these are impossible to substantiate and can only be regarded as wild guesses. It's inconceivable that anyone in the west, or even in Japan, has insight into the intentions of FujiFilm HQ with their respective divisions up to the moment they make a decision and start implementing it. This extends to Fuji subsidiaries in the west; even they don't know what'll happen to them. This is the daily reality of being part of a Japanese multinational. I've seen this from the inside (not Fuji, different company). It's a pretty consistent picture.

 

[Agulliver]

For the obvious reason that nobody can predict the future, this analysis is never going to be presented. Neither is a 100% reliable analysis that tells the opposite. So for all intents and purposes, this is a moot point.



Given Fuji's habits of communicating with the outside world, claims like these are impossible to substantiate and can only be regarded as wild guesses. It's inconceivable that anyone in the west, or even in Japan, has insight into the intentions of FujiFilm HQ with their respective divisions up to the moment they make a decision and start implementing it. This extends to Fuji subsidiaries in the west; even they don't know what'll happen to them. This is the daily reality of being part of a Japanese multinational. I've seen this from the inside (not Fuji, different company). It's a pretty consistent picture.

1. Posts saying "it's just a fad" remind me very much of the folk who said the same about vinyl records 10 years ago. they now have an awful lot of egg on their faces. The film "revival" is looking very similar in how it's shaping....unlike, for example, the small uptick in sales of cassette tapes. You're correct that nobody can predict the future accurately but the signs are there that this is not a fad.

2. Yup, it's just Japanese business culture. Though a couple of years ago the British FujiFilm guy did announce that he'd been told from Japan that Fuji were committed to continuing in the film business. The fact that they kept the brand alive with Kodak-made film during the 18 months when they were unable to manufacture new C41 film and then resumed production of proper Fuji Superia film is surely a sign that they're not throwing in the towel.

 

[koraks]

Agulliver, I get what you're saying, but I've spent enough years in business and particularly in the area of technology trajectories and innovation strategy to realize that the signs you mention are very difficult to interpret one way or another.

To be honest, I just don't know. It's an interesting debate, but the only firm conclusion can ever be "only time will tell".

 

[Agulliver]

@koraks you are correct that only time will tell. What does bug me is when someone confidently says "It is a fad". Because there's clearly little, if any, evidence that it's a fad.

What I see on the ground is demand for colour film especially continuing to increase beyond supply. But my crystal ball doesn't tell me for sure that'll continue tomorrow.

 

[Cholentpot]

@koraks you are correct that only time will tell. What does bug me is when someone confidently says "It is a fad". Because there's clearly little, if any, evidence that it's a fad.

What I see on the ground is demand for colour film especially continuing to increase beyond supply. But my crystal ball doesn't tell me for sure that'll continue tomorrow.

What makes me think it's not a fad is the amount of people younger than me that view film positively. Gen-X and to an extent older millennials can't fathom why anyone would subject themselves to film again. Gen Z and Alpha think it's the cat's meow and love the stuff.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Younger people are more rebellious. They want to make their own mark. So that could account for so many of the young taking up film.

Older people are more settled. I went to my grandson's first birthday party a week ago. I was the only one there taking pictures (ahem, digital) with a real camera. The rest used their cellphones including my daughter and son-in-law who bought a real DSLR camera when he became a father. But they weren't even using it.

The thought they'd go beyond DSLR to film just doesn't make sense for them. They're busy raising a child. I did buy my daughter an Instax for her birthday a couple of years ago which she loved for about two weeks but don't think she's used it since.

 

[citychicago]

I would suggest anyone with any interest in this subject look up their closest community darkroom and attend one of the public events/open houses. There is such great enthusiasm for film. And while not mass market/volume like the 90s and early 00s, there's a significant and growing market for this again, which is great news for any who shoots film. Prices will ebb and flow through the decades, but it's nowhere near as costly as it was, say, in the 1950s.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Younger people are more rebellious. They want to make their own mark. So that could account for so many of the young taking up film.

Older people are more settled. I went to my grandson's first birthday party a week ago. I was the only one there taking pictures (ahem, digital) with a real camera. The rest used their cellphones including my daughter and son-in-law who bought a real DSLR camera when he became a father. But they weren't even using it.

The thought they'd go beyond DSLR to film just doesn't make sense for them. They're busy raising a child. I did buy my daughter an Instax for her birthday a couple of years ago which she loved for about two weeks but don't think she's used it since.

Oh, what the heck, it's digital, but,

 

[Cholentpot]

Younger people are more rebellious. They want to make their own mark. So that could account for so many of the young taking up film.

Older people are more settled. I went to my grandson's first birthday party a week ago. I was the only one there taking pictures (ahem, digital) with a real camera. The rest used their cellphones including my daughter and son-in-law who bought a real DSLR camera when he became a father. But they weren't even using it.

The thought they'd go beyond DSLR to film just doesn't make sense for them. They're busy raising a child. I did buy my daughter an Instax for her birthday a couple of years ago which she loved for about two weeks but don't think she's used it since.

Proud Grandpa!

I'm busy with little-ones of my own nowdays. Just about everything is documented on film or phone. The DSLR comes out rarely and for special events.

 

[Oldwino]

Saying something is a fad depends on how you define “fad”. If vinyl records are not a fad, then they are certainly “niche”. Film is probably, too.

That color film sells out immediately may be more a function of manufacturing capacity than any huge, sudden demand. It’s like Leica saying they sell out every film M camera they make, when they only make 20 a month at most. They just cannot make more than that.

 

[Mike Lopez]

This is just down the road from me, the location of Custer's Last Stand.

"Little Bighorn Battlefield National Monument intends to move to a fully cashless fee system and only accept credit card, debit card, mobile or electronic payments for entrance and permit fees by November 1, 2022."

I could wrap my head around the reasoning behind enforced contactless transactions during the height of the pandemic. But it’s a little frustrating to not be able to use cash for the smallest, simplest purchases even now—and it’ll likely continue to get worse.

 

[VinceInMT]

I could wrap my head around the reasoning behind enforced contactless transactions during the height of the pandemic. But it’s a little frustrating to not be able to use cash for the smallest, simplest purchases even now—and it’ll likely continue to get worse.

At least several of the breweries here are still cash only. Heck, we can still get a fine microbrew for $3/pint. It sort of offsets the rising cost of film.

 

[pbromaghin]

What makes me think it's not a fad is the amount of people younger than me that view film positively. Gen-X and to an extent older millennials can't fathom why anyone would subject themselves to film again. Gen Z and Alpha think it's the cat's meow and love the stuff.

At the funeral for an elderly uncle last week, several of his teen- and twenty- grandkids (even the one with the dslr) expressed that I was very cool for shooting film at the reception.