Is there really a strong interest in film photography?

VinceInMT · Dec 16, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
If she gave up work, you might spend more time together so you don't have as much time for your personal hobbies. Suddenly, you're traveling more, going to the theater, etc. Also, people often downsize their homes in retirement.

Her business operates out of our house so we are together all the time. The only time we are not, business related, is during tax season when clients come over to the house. I have to stay in my man cave, darkroom, or art studio as I am not even allowed to know who her clients are. She’s really big on ethics.

And, we have frequently taken separate vacations for the nearly 40 years we’ve been together. I take cross country motorcycle trips and go solo. She’s flown to Atlanta few times to run a half marathon there when I couldn’t go due to classes I was taking. I went to Italy last May with a school group. Stuff like that. But we do go on trips together, road trips preferred, sometimes with a race at the other end. We’ve done that in Bismarck, Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, and a few others.

Yes, I hear than some downsize in retirement but I seriously doubt that I will. I have a friend who moved from here to another state and got a larger house with a big room to support his wife’s long arm quilting machine. I not only have all my stuff in my present house but we bought the place across the street as an investment property and give our tenant, an elderly woman, a screaming deal on the rent as I retain the spot alongside the garage for my sailboat, the RV slab for my old pickup, and half the garage for one of my cars and a motorcycle.

Of course, we live in Montana where lots of people go to for vacation so we don’t have to travel far to “get away,” we are already there. The Beartooth Highway is an hour away. Yellowstone park is 2 hours. Day trips.

VinceInMT · Dec 16, 2022

I wonder if access/populaity of film photography would have suffered more if the convenience of purchasing online was not available. It seems that the decline of film mirrored the rise of web-based purchasing, a correlation, not a causation of course but in interesting relationship. And, yes, we used to buy remote from all those adds in the back of magazines.

VinceInMT · Dec 16, 2022

Craig said:
I'm in the same boat. I'd feel so useless if I didn't have my tools, it would be like losing an arm. I couldn't imaging not being able to fix or make something.

YES!!! While my wife chides me about all my stuff which includes cans and boxes of what can only be described and my “cultch pile,” when something breaks and needs a repair, I can usually accomplish that without a trip to the store. I am a DIY guy to the max and while I do occasionally sub a job out, I almost feel like a failure when I do. ;-)

I lived in Southern California for years and in 1991 I moved to Montana for a career change and other advantages. I paid for the move and used a moving company so every pound cost. I downsized as much as I could and after settling here, for the first year or so I was always frustrated when I had to work on something and didn’t have something like a length of 2x4 to use a block, as assortment of screws to rifle through. Our garage door opener, which came with the house we bought over 3 decades ago, quit a few weeks ago. I dug into the unit and found that a spade connector had cracked and disconnected. I had the part in my pile and had it fixed in a few minutes. I hope to get another 30 years out of it.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 16, 2022

VinceInMT said:
Her business operates out of our house so we are together all the time. The only time we are not, business related, is during tax season when clients come over to the house. I have to stay in my man cave, darkroom, or art studio as I am not even allowed to know who her clients are. She’s really big on ethics.

And, we have frequently taken separate vacations for the nearly 40 years we’ve been together. I take cross country motorcycle trips and go solo. She’s flown to Atlanta few times to run a half marathon there when I couldn’t go due to classes I was taking. I went to Italy last May with a school group. Stuff like that. But we do go on trips together, road trips preferred, sometimes with a race at the other end. We’ve done that in Bismarck, Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, and a few others.

Yes, I hear than some downsize in retirement but I seriously doubt that I will. I have a friend who moved from here to another state and got a larger house with a big room to support his wife’s long arm quilting machine. I not only have all my stuff in my present house but we bought the place across the street as an investment property and give our tenant, an elderly woman, a screaming deal on the rent as I retain the spot alongside the garage for my sailboat, the RV slab for my old pickup, and half the garage for one of my cars and a motorcycle.

Of course, we live in Montana where lots of people go to for vacation so we don’t have to travel far to “get away,” we are already there. The Beartooth Highway is an hour away. Yellowstone park is 2 hours. Day trips.

Never been to Yellowstone. We should make that our next trip. When's the best season?

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 16, 2022

VinceInMT said:
I wonder if access/populaity of film photography would have suffered more if the convenience of purchasing online was not available. It seems that the decline of film mirrored the rise of web-based purchasing, a correlation, not a causation of course but in interesting relationship. And, yes, we used to buy remote from all those adds in the back of magazines.

There would be more camera stores selling used stuff. Plus photo magazines would advertise used stuff for sale. KEH would have more competitors and sellers would have to sell to intermediaries more. Girls and boys would have to meet live instead of over the web.

VinceInMT · Dec 16, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
Never been to Yellowstone. We should make that our next trip. When's the best season?

Include the Beartooth and the Chief Joseph Highways as part of your visit. Fantastic photography opportunities. The Beartooth doesn’t open until, usually, Memorial Day weekend due to the snow. After that it’s tourist season at Yellowstone and the weather can be good but the roads can be crowded. Bring a jacket. I was at Old Faithful on the 4th of July one year and it was snowing. I like early fall the best, right after Labor Day as the crowds have disappeared. While I didn’t make it to Yellowstone this past season (surgery and other trips instead but did do the Beartooth/Chief Joseph) I motorcycled it in September ‘21 and blogged on it with lots of photos:

https://fjradventures.blogspot.com/2021/10/beartooth-pass-and-yellowstone-park.html

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 16, 2022

VinceInMT said:
Include the Beartooth and the Chief Joseph Highways as part of your visit. Fantastic photography opportunities. The Beartooth doesn’t open until, usually, Memorial Day weekend due to the snow. After that it’s tourist season at Yellowstone and the weather can be good but the roads can be crowded. Bring a jacket. I was at Old Faithful on the 4th of July one year and it was snowing. I like early fall the best, right after Labor Day as the crowds have disappeared. While I didn’t make it to Yellowstone this past season (surgery and other trips instead but did do the Beartooth/Chief Joseph) I motorcycled it in September ‘21 and blogged on it with lots of photos:

https://fjradventures.blogspot.com/2021/10/beartooth-pass-and-yellowstone-park.html

Nice shots - of your motorcycle.

We like off-season as it's cheaper, easier to drive and get rooms, less lines, etc. Since we're retired, we can do that.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 16, 2022

One of the few advantages of being old.

VinceInMT · Dec 16, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
Nice shots - of your motorcycle.

On one of our motorcycle forums there’s thread to post travel photos. Someone complained about motorcycles being in all the shots. Someone else reminded them that it’s a motorcycle forum and provided a link to travel photo only forum.

Sirius Glass · Dec 16, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
The problem I have with having stuff is I feel obligated to use them. So when I go out to shoot film, I take my medium format and large format equipment each with its own four lenses. It complicates life. Having less stuff simplifies life and decision-making.

I was up in the attic this morning and found my scuba gear sitting in a bag unused for over twenty years. I also have my Nikonos underwater camera also unused. What am I saving it for? It's like I don't want to move on in life. I'm stuck. I can't let go. Getting rid of stuff frees you up. Clearing out the junk in the attic clears out the junk in your brain.

Wouldn't you rather use the scuba gear and Nikonos in Hawaii? Pick up the phone, make flight and hotel reservations, get out of the snow, fly there and use the stuff.

Sirius Glass · Dec 16, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
Never been to Yellowstone. We should make that our next trip. When's the best season?

Any time. Each season is unique.

Sirius Glass · Dec 16, 2022

VinceInMT said:
Include the Beartooth and the Chief Joseph Highways as part of your visit. Fantastic photography opportunities. The Beartooth doesn’t open until, usually, Memorial Day weekend due to the snow. After that it’s tourist season at Yellowstone and the weather can be good but the roads can be crowded. Bring a jacket. I was at Old Faithful on the 4th of July one year and it was snowing. I like early fall the best, right after Labor Day as the crowds have disappeared. While I didn’t make it to Yellowstone this past season (surgery and other trips instead but did do the Beartooth/Chief Joseph) I motorcycled it in September ‘21 and blogged on it with lots of photos:

https://fjradventures.blogspot.com/2021/10/beartooth-pass-and-yellowstone-park.html

Do not forget Big Hole National Battlefield.

Agulliver · Dec 18, 2022

I've been aware that a third person at the local jazz club has recently started shooting on film, inspired by the antics of myself and my partner. Finally met him Friday night and again last night. I tent to shoot with cameras from the 30s to the 60s, he uses a late 80s or early 90s Canon EOS. We were comparing notes on shooting styles and films. He prefers Delta 3200 at box speed while I push HP5+ to 1600 most commonly, with 1/30 or 1/15 shutter speed.

Then he said "I've even heard you shot some 8mm cine film here. That's proper mad". Luckily I had a scan of said film on my phone and had quite the audience before the gig, looking at this B&W movie film shot at the club in February. He's now cooking up a plan to have his Canon 814 super 8 camera serviced so we can both shoot movie film there.

But something else happened....obviously I reach existing friends on social media with my photos, and many of the musicians at the club but I wasn't really reaching the other audience members. The last two nights more people who have noticed us shooting on film got to see the photos we shoot as we were able to show them on our phones.....and I have a feeling that in the new year the local camera shop will have even more custom. Said shop happens to be just around the corner from the club so it's even convenient to pick up a roll of HP5+ before a gig! I also got to meet the new owners who are taking over the club, and they had heard of my exploits on film and wish to use my photos more in promoting the club next year because there's just something unique about images originated on film...captures the atmosphere of the club perfectly.

More people are becoming aware that film is viable in 2022, and something fun and different to work with. Honestly five years ago if you'd said that a jazz club that isn't even in a city with a capacity of 105 would contain several people shooting B&W film of the performances, with the club and the musicians going on to use those photos for promo purposes.....I do think you'd have been looked at rather funny.

I took a Zeiss-Ikon folder on a trip to Kent a few months ago and chanced upon a micro pub which does live music and the landlady came over to me....I wondered if she was going to ask me to stop taking photos....but no....she said that she'd been wondering if it was possible to shoot on film and could I please send her any good photos for the pub's Instagram. Not "please stop taking photos" or "Are you mad?" or "Is that even loaded?"....but "We've been wondering about film please send us some of your pictures".

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 18, 2022

Agulliver said:
I've been aware that a third person at the local jazz club has recently started shooting on film, inspired by the antics of myself and my partner. Finally met him Friday night and again last night. I tent to shoot with cameras from the 30s to the 60s, he uses a late 80s or early 90s Canon EOS. We were comparing notes on shooting styles and films. He prefers Delta 3200 at box speed while I push HP5+ to 1600 most commonly, with 1/30 or 1/15 shutter speed.

Then he said "I've even heard you shot some 8mm cine film here. That's proper mad". Luckily I had a scan of said film on my phone and had quite the audience before the gig, looking at this B&W movie film shot at the club in February. He's now cooking up a plan to have his Canon 814 super 8 camera serviced so we can both shoot movie film there.

But something else happened....obviously I reach existing friends on social media with my photos, and many of the musicians at the club but I wasn't really reaching the other audience members. The last two nights more people who have noticed us shooting on film got to see the photos we shoot as we were able to show them on our phones.....and I have a feeling that in the new year the local camera shop will have even more custom. Said shop happens to be just around the corner from the club so it's even convenient to pick up a roll of HP5+ before a gig! I also got to meet the new owners who are taking over the club, and they had heard of my exploits on film and wish to use my photos more in promoting the club next year because there's just something unique about images originated on film...captures the atmosphere of the club perfectly.

More people are becoming aware that film is viable in 2022, and something fun and different to work with. Honestly five years ago if you'd said that a jazz club that isn't even in a city with a capacity of 105 would contain several people shooting B&W film of the performances, with the club and the musicians going on to use those photos for promo purposes.....I do think you'd have been looked at rather funny.

I took a Zeiss-Ikon folder on a trip to Kent a few months ago and chanced upon a micro pub which does live music and the landlady came over to me....I wondered if she was going to ask me to stop taking photos....but no....she said that she'd been wondering if it was possible to shoot on film and could I please send her any good photos for the pub's Instagram. Not "please stop taking photos" or "Are you mad?" or "Is that even loaded?"....but "We've been wondering about film please send us some of your pictures".

Well, why wouldn't jazz people like film. They're already "cool".

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 18, 2022

Agulliver said:
I've been aware that a third person at the local jazz club has recently started shooting on film, inspired by the antics of myself and my partner. Finally met him Friday night and again last night. I tent to shoot with cameras from the 30s to the 60s, he uses a late 80s or early 90s Canon EOS. We were comparing notes on shooting styles and films. He prefers Delta 3200 at box speed while I push HP5+ to 1600 most commonly, with 1/30 or 1/15 shutter speed.

Then he said "I've even heard you shot some 8mm cine film here. That's proper mad". Luckily I had a scan of said film on my phone and had quite the audience before the gig, looking at this B&W movie film shot at the club in February. He's now cooking up a plan to have his Canon 814 super 8 camera serviced so we can both shoot movie film there.

But something else happened....obviously I reach existing friends on social media with my photos, and many of the musicians at the club but I wasn't really reaching the other audience members. The last two nights more people who have noticed us shooting on film got to see the photos we shoot as we were able to show them on our phones.....and I have a feeling that in the new year the local camera shop will have even more custom. Said shop happens to be just around the corner from the club so it's even convenient to pick up a roll of HP5+ before a gig! I also got to meet the new owners who are taking over the club, and they had heard of my exploits on film and wish to use my photos more in promoting the club next year because there's just something unique about images originated on film...captures the atmosphere of the club perfectly.

More people are becoming aware that film is viable in 2022, and something fun and different to work with. Honestly five years ago if you'd said that a jazz club that isn't even in a city with a capacity of 105 would contain several people shooting B&W film of the performances, with the club and the musicians going on to use those photos for promo purposes.....I do think you'd have been looked at rather funny.

I took a Zeiss-Ikon folder on a trip to Kent a few months ago and chanced upon a micro pub which does live music and the landlady came over to me....I wondered if she was going to ask me to stop taking photos....but no....she said that she'd been wondering if it was possible to shoot on film and could I please send her any good photos for the pub's Instagram. Not "please stop taking photos" or "Are you mad?" or "Is that even loaded?"....but "We've been wondering about film please send us some of your pictures".

Where could we see your film stills and movies of jazz artists and the club?

drfoxmd · Dec 18, 2022

faberryman said:
Based on the overwhelmingly positive posts by film enthusiasts on Photrio, I would say that there really is a strong interest in film photography. Naysayers will quibble with statistical sampling methodologies.

Agree, and if and when the cost of film and processing becomes more affordable the demand will increase significantly.

faberryman · Dec 18, 2022

drfoxmd said:
Agree, and if and when the cost of film and processing becomes more affordable the demand will increase significantly.

It is unlikely the cost of film and processing will go down. Welcome to the world of shooting film.

Helge · Dec 18, 2022

faberryman said:
It is unlikely the cost of film and processing will go down. Welcome to the world of shooting film.

If a fourth biggish player enters the ring (Adox?) with a serious set of colour films at a competitive price, things will get shook up.
Right now the market is locked up and has found a resting state.

mtnbkr · Dec 18, 2022

faberryman said:
It is unlikely the cost of film and processing will go down. Welcome to the world of shooting film.

Yup. It's making me approach film a bit differently. In the old day, before I had a digital camera or a phone that took pics, I burned film taking snapshots and such. Now, with film running upwards of $15/roll and full developing including prints running nearly $30, I am approaching film photography as "art" or for very specific outcomes and using my digital tools for volume shooting (snapshots, family shots, etc). That's ok though as I'm now looking for results that are interesting to me.

Chris

Pieter12 · Dec 18, 2022

Film has always been expensive. In the 80's it would cost me $10/sheet for 8x10 Ektachrome (about $30 in today's dollars) including processing. Today, the film alone would be about $24/sheet.

Craig · Dec 18, 2022

Helge said:
If a fourth biggish player enters the ring (Adox?) with a serious set of colour films at a competitive price, things will get shook up.
Right now the market is locked up and has found a resting state.

I suppose the big question is if lower prices would expand the size of the market, or simple divide the current market among more players? The danger of dividing it into smaller slices is that nobody can be profitable and survive.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 18, 2022

Craig said:
I suppose the big question is if lower prices would expand the size of the market, or simple divide the current market among more players? The danger of dividing it into smaller slices is that nobody can be profitable and survive.

In a recession, the stronger competitors survive and customers who used the dying manufacturers move to them.

Helge · Dec 18, 2022

Craig said:
I suppose the big question is if lower prices would expand the size of the market, or simple divide the current market among more players? The danger of dividing it into smaller slices is that nobody can be profitable and survive.

How would it divide the marked?
Cheaper colour film (even slightly) would put pressure on everyone to tighten margins up and make manufacture more effective. Even people crazy for Portra 400 and nothing but would still be lured into buying the cheaper option once in a while.

Craig · Dec 18, 2022

Helge said:
How would it divide the marked?
Cheaper colour film (even slightly) would put pressure on everyone to tighten margins up and make manufacture more effective. Even people crazy for Portra 400 and nothing but would still be lured into buying the cheaper option once in a while.

If a new player like Adox decides to make C41 film, that divides the market further than it is now where it's just Kodak and Fuji. You're assuming margins can be tightened and further cost reductions can be made, after covid where companies were struggling to survive that may not be the case.

I wouldn't want to see a situation where dividing the market into pieces that are too small to be profitable for anyone means that some or all of the players either go bankrupt or decide it's not a business they want to be in. Fuji for example, could easily exit the photography market and it would have little effect on the corporation, but I'd hate to lose Fuji films.

MattKing · Dec 18, 2022

Some people here seem to think that current film prices arise from high profit margins. If only that were the case.
The current prices may be enough to support a smaller manufacturer - that isn't clear - and there may be some supply chain improvements that lower some of the manufacturing and distribution costs that are currently challenging everybody, but a return to the prices of yesterday would drive everybody out of the business, unless the volumes of yesterday also returned.
It has nothing to do with so-called "inflation".

Is there really a strong interest in film photography?

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