Is there really a strong interest in film photography?

Agulliver · Jul 6, 2022

snusmumriken said:
I don't think we could accuse digital photographers of not being willing to invest time, money and effort. I suspect the real stumbling block with film is the darkroom itself. Youngsters aren't often in a position where they can devote space to a darkroom or convert parts of buildings that don't belong to them, or feel settled enough. Communal/college darkrooms may not be available and can be dispiriting unless there is a tyrant in charge.

Of course it doesn't actually require much kit to make decent prints, and temporary use of the bathroom can be enough facility. But when I did that I was a bachelor, so there were no queues of cross-legged children, and the (only) loo was outdoors. I had to wait most of my life to have my own darkroom shed capable of really good prints, and a dry mounting press that occupies a square metre of the house. If I was starting now, I don't imagine I would find the analogue route terribly tempting.

I know some still consider it heresy, but if one develops B&W film and then scans....almost no space is needed. I keep all my film developing equipment in a bucket. Chemicals, changing bag, thermometer, two developing tanks, four reels, extension tube for Jobo tank. All I actually need in addition to all this is a sink and cold water. Anyone can have that even in shared accommodation. I've considered developing film while on a camping trip (spousal unit isn't enthusiastic though). All one needs then is a computer (show me a youngster who doesn't have one, especially a student) and a scanner....which can be had cheap second hand. There are even phone apps to scan negatives with phone cameras.

When it comes to making prints, yes that would require at least temporarily taking over a closet or bathroom....and I am fully aware that many European flats don't even have a closet. But one can get started with just a small amount of equipment.

Wat is actually putting people off, according to the camera shop staff I speak with, is unpredictable supply of C41 film.

Cholentpot · Jul 6, 2022

Agulliver said:
I know some still consider it heresy, but if one develops B&W film and then scans....almost no space is needed. I keep all my film developing equipment in a bucket. Chemicals, changing bag, thermometer, two developing tanks, four reels, extension tube for Jobo tank. All I actually need in addition to all this is a sink and cold water. Anyone can have that even in shared accommodation. I've considered developing film while on a camping trip (spousal unit isn't enthusiastic though). All one needs then is a computer (show me a youngster who doesn't have one, especially a student) and a scanner....which can be had cheap second hand. There are even phone apps to scan negatives with phone cameras.

When it comes to making prints, yes that would require at least temporarily taking over a closet or bathroom....and I am fully aware that many European flats don't even have a closet. But one can get started with just a small amount of equipment.

Wat is actually putting people off, according to the camera shop staff I speak with, is unpredictable supply of C41 film.

You said it, easy scanning makes film far more accessible. Most people who are shooting film have a DSLR rig of some sort already and just use the camera to scan the negs. I keep all my development stuff on a single shelf, or used to until that got out of hand. I have room to print but no-where that's really practical to make light tight.

Agulliver · Jul 7, 2022

Cholentpot said:
You said it, easy scanning makes film far more accessible. Most people who are shooting film have a DSLR rig of some sort already and just use the camera to scan the negs. I keep all my development stuff on a single shelf, or used to until that got out of hand. I have room to print but no-where that's really practical to make light tight.

Not necessarily these young people under 25 who are discovering non-phone photography for the first time, and on a budget.

It's been postulated that the need for a darkroom might put such people off.

Helge · Jul 7, 2022

Agulliver said:
The "gate keeping" is more telling people not to use film if they're buying Color Plus and plastic cameras. "We don't want you in our club as you buy cheap film and that plastic Kodak branded thing".

Showing newbies how to achieve better photographs via technique and gear is educating. how many of us actually set out with an SLR or fully controllable camera, BITD?

Who has ever really said something like the first?
It’s shrinking violets, and fey mimosa types who take offense at friendly or neutral advice and straw man project it to something else to stiffen frail egos, create an identity of “us against them” and for cheap social points.

Helge · Jul 7, 2022

Agulliver said:
Not necessarily these young people under 25 who are discovering non-phone photography for the first time, and on a budget.

It's been postulated that the need for a darkroom might put such people off.

Ilford or someone should really reinvent the daylight enlarger. A collapsible cone and some sort to print to two or three sizes. And internal development. No burn or dodge of course.

Cholentpot · Jul 7, 2022

Helge said:
Who has ever really said something like the first?
It’s shrinking violets, and fey mimosa types who take offense at friendly or neutral advice and straw man project it to something else to stiffen frail egos, create an identity of “us against them” and for cheap social points.

Or maybe there are folks out there who don't really care for any unsolicited advice for their hobby. This is something they do for fun and enjoyment, they're not looking very deep into it. It's ice cream. Imagine taking a bite out of an ice cream and someone tells you that you can do much better than that. Let me enjoy my ice cream.

Now, the folks hanging 'round this website are here for a reason. They've moved on from the ice cream phase and want to learn more.

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 7, 2022

Cholentpot said:
Or maybe there are folks out there who don't really care for any unsolicited advice for their hobby. This is something they do for fun and enjoyment, they're not looking very deep into it. It's ice cream. Imagine taking a bite out of an ice cream and someone tells you that you can do much better than that. Let me enjoy my ice cream.

Now, the folks hanging 'round this website are here for a reason. They've moved on from the ice cream phase and want to learn more.

Well, if he's just starting out, I would recommend plain vanilla to get adapted before trying the more daring and complicated flavors like pistachio almond.

Helge · Jul 7, 2022

Cholentpot said:
Or maybe there are folks out there who don't really care for any unsolicited advice for their hobby. This is something they do for fun and enjoyment, they're not looking very deep into it. It's ice cream. Imagine taking a bite out of an ice cream and someone tells you that you can do much better than that. Let me enjoy my ice cream.

Now, the folks hanging 'round this website are here for a reason. They've moved on from the ice cream phase and want to learn more.

Exactly. I'm not talking up random people with film cameras. A. I'd be too busy, and B. I'm not really that interested.
But if they approach me or we get talking for one reason or another then... maybe.
For the record a point an shoot can be perfectly fine if you know what to expect and know how to use it. Most people don't.

There is quite a difference in degree and nature between eating icecream and film photography.
A better analogy would be if you see someone painting.
You see them painting basically childrens crayon drawings with oil paint.
They ask you what you think, because you are not commenting on their genius.
You try to be polite but clear and succinct and say you think it's not up to par and they could do with a few lessons. And they get offended and tell you that they have their own special style and are just original and before their time.

Photographing with film is a lot more involved and deliberate, no matter how casual a hedonist you are. My main concern is that if the "ice cream" starts to taste samey they will stop buying film, even if they have all the money in the world.

VinceInMT · Jul 7, 2022

Cholentpot said:
Or maybe there are folks out there who don't really care for any unsolicited advice for their hobby. This is something they do for fun and enjoyment, they're not looking very deep into it. It's ice cream. Imagine taking a bite out of an ice cream and someone tells you that you can do much better than that. Let me enjoy my ice cream.

Now, the folks hanging 'round this website are here for a reason. They've moved on from the ice cream phase and want to learn more.

Well, mostly, yes. As an active member of forums for hobbies going back to the old BBS days, one of things I’ve learned is that even if you aren’t soliciting feedback and you just post what you are doing and how you are doing it, someone will respond and tell you that you are doing it wrong. Sometimes its not overt but couched in an description of how they do it, sort of a form of virtue signaling.

Cholentpot · Jul 7, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
Well, if he's just starting out, I would recommend plain vanilla to get adapted before trying the more daring and complicated flavors like pistachio almond.

Avocado ice cream. It's uncalled for but tastes pretty good.

Helge said:
Exactly. I'm not talking up random people with film cameras. A. I'd be too busy, and B. I'm not really that interested.
But if they approach me or we get talking for one reason or another then... maybe.
For the record a point an shoot can be perfectly fine if you know what to expect and know how to use it. Most people don't.

There is quite a difference in degree and nature between eating icecream and film photography.
A better analogy would be if you see someone painting.
You see them painting basically childrens crayon drawings with oil paint.
They ask you what you think, because you are not commenting on their genius.
You try to be polite but clear and succinct and say you think it's not up to par and they could do with a few lessons. And they get offended and tell you that they have their own special style and are just original and before their time.

Photographing with film is a lot more involved and deliberate, no matter how casual a hedonist you are. My main concern is that if the "ice cream" starts to taste samey they will stop buying film, even if they have all the money in the world.

I'm on track with you on this. If someone asks what I think I'll tell them, if they assume they're genius and the best ever and they need me to validate? Not happening. I don't get asked to validate others work all that much. Let them scribble and scrabble, not my problem unless they ask 'What went wrong?' or 'How do I get this look?'. It's like when a client complains about pricing 'You called me, I didn't call you.'

VinceInMT said:
Well, mostly, yes. As an active member of forums for hobbies going back to the old BBS days, one of things I’ve learned is that even if you aren’t soliciting feedback and you just post what you are doing and how you are doing it, someone will respond and tell you that you are doing it wrong. Sometimes its not overt but couched in an description of how they do it, sort of a form of virtue signaling.

Took a while but I bumped into this finally in large format here. I kept calling ROLL FILM HOLDERS 'Film backs' and boy did I hear it from people. IT'S NOT A FILM BACK YOU DOLT IT'S A ROLL FILM HOLDER.

sorry.

VinceInMT · Jul 7, 2022

Cholentpot said:
Took a while but I bumped into this finally in large format here. I kept calling ROLL FILM HOLDERS 'Film backs' and boy did I hear it from people. IT'S NOT A FILM BACK YOU DOLT IT'S A ROLL FILM HOLDER.

sorry.

On the 8-track tape forum I see this but it's usually administered with kindness when someone refers to the plastic case as a "cassette" rather than a "cartridge." Sometimes it's all about the lingo. One forum I hang out on (cancer-related) has a "Read This First" type of sticky with all the acronyms and other pieces of dialect listed and translated for the newly arrived.

Cholentpot · Jul 7, 2022

VinceInMT said:
On the 8-track tape forum I see this but it's usually administered with kindness when someone refers to the plastic case as a "cassette" rather than a "cartridge." Sometimes it's all about the lingo. One forum I hang out on (cancer-related) has a "Read This First" type of sticky with all the acronyms and other pieces of dialect listed and translated for the newly arrived.

8-track? 'Hey hand me that tape'

VinceInMT · Jul 7, 2022

Cholentpot said:
8-track? 'Hey hand me that tape'

Yes, 8-tracks. I have hundreds and players in my old cars like this Muntz 4- and 8-track player in my ‘59 Volvo. I’m not weird enough just shooting film.

Cholentpot · Jul 7, 2022

VinceInMT said:
Yes, 8-tracks. I have hundreds and players in my old cars like this Muntz 4- and 8-track player in my ‘59 Volvo. I’m not weird enough just shooting film.

First car I ever drove had an 8track. 1981 Buick Electra station wagon. It also had a built in CB, and a fake cig lighter that really was an alarm arm switch.

Pieter12 · Jul 7, 2022

Since this is about film, does anyone have any of the Super 8mm film cartridges that schools used to use?

faberryman · Jul 7, 2022

Pieter12 said:
Since this is about film, does anyone have any of the Super 8mm film cartridges that schools used to use?

I don't remember Super8 cartridges. I remember film strips. And later, overhead projectors. I think they (whoever they is) invented overhead projectors because teachers just wore themselves out writing stuff on the chalkboard all day.

Pieter12 · Jul 7, 2022

faberryman said:
I don't remember Super8 cartridges. I remember film strips. And later, overhead projectors. I think they (whoever they is) invented overhead projectors because teachers just wore themselves out writing stuff on the chalkboard all day.

I remember some being used in class for educational films. Here's a promo for an earlier, silent version:

faberryman · Jul 7, 2022

Pieter12 said:
I remember some being used in class for educational films. Here's a promo for an earlier, silent version:

I gave up on the video at 1:50.

Pieter12 · Jul 7, 2022

faberryman said:
I gave up on the video at 1:50.

The point was not to entertain you, just bringing film (in cartridge form) back into the discussion.

VinceInMT · Jul 7, 2022

Pieter12 said:
Since this is about film, does anyone have any of the Super 8mm film cartridges that schools used to use?

View attachment 309905

When I took over my classroom in 1991, they had these “things” that they used to use as teaching tools for welding and small engines. It looked like a TV but they worked on a cartridge that had both a continuous tape and a film loop in it. The film was back projected on a screen in the console. The student would watch the slide show and listen to the audio which would stop at times where the student would then fill out a worksheet.

I wasn’t going to use them and sent them back to the school district warehouse. I assume that they ended up at the property auction and eventually went to the landfill. I regret not snagging one of those carts.

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 7, 2022

VinceInMT said:
On the 8-track tape forum I see this but it's usually administered with kindness when someone refers to the plastic case as a "cassette" rather than a "cartridge." Sometimes it's all about the lingo. One forum I hang out on (cancer-related) has a "Read This First" type of sticky with all the acronyms and other pieces of dialect listed and translated for the newly arrived.

What's the difference between a cartridge and a cassette?

MattKing · Jul 7, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
What's the difference between a cartridge and a cassette?

Cartridges are the continuous play 8 track thingies, and cassettes are the other type.

VinceInMT · Jul 7, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
What's the difference between a cartridge and a cassette?

It depends on the context. When it comes to the 4- or the 8-track, it’s referred to as a cartridge. The Philips audio cassette is, well, a cassette. But when you look at all the formats that have come along over the years, there is lots of ambiguity. Some formats that featured supply and take up reels, like the RCA tape cartridge and the Elcasaet, were referred to as “cartridges.” In the radio business, a “cart” was a thing that played in a continuous loop.

Is there a definitive name for the “package” that holds 35mm film that is placed in a standard 35mm camera?

Brendan Quirk · Jul 7, 2022

Agulliver said:
It's been postulated that the need for a darkroom might put such people off.

Unfortunate. I was lucky, and had a small apartment to myself from the beginning (age 20). I wish people had more access to darkrooms, but understand that it is a declining privilege these days.

Agulliver · Jul 8, 2022

Brendan Quirk said:
Unfortunate. I was lucky, and had a small apartment to myself from the beginning (age 20). I wish people had more access to darkrooms, but understand that it is a declining privilege these days.

When I was a kid and teenager, my school had a dark room that one could use free of charge. It could be booked, or one could turn up to school reception, and sign in/out if it hadn't been booked for that time. The teacher who taught me film processing during that time kept a dark room going into the 21st century. When I caught up with him five years ago he'd retired and the dark room had been converted into storage.

I work in a school myself, have done since 1999. Back then the old darkroom at my place of employment had lain dormant since the early 90s and had just been converted into a computer suite.

I do know that a local university has put film photography back into it's studies, due to demand, and has reinstated a darkroom that was closed circa 2010....but it's not possible to hire it unless one is a student at the university. I've been trying to gently persuade a local arts centre to install a darkroom, but that looks unlikely. They were interested but the available area has no plumbing so no running water.

Ilford do have an interactive map of darkrooms available for public use, prices vary hugely from "very reasonable" to "I could effing build one for half a day's hire". But it's a good resource.

As for my personal circumstances, I went straight from uni digs to getting married and sharing a modest home. I do have a garden and a garage, which are actually more important to us than large rooms indoors. At the risk of sounding rather unpleasant....at some point my mother will pass away and I shall inherit the means to buy the "perfect forever home" which will include a space which can be used as a darkroom. I think a lot of people considerably younger than myself live in more modest homes than I do. Flats are getting smaller in the UK and Europe from what I can see, house shares are becoming more popular...and not everyone wants to share a house with someone who frequently cordons off the one bathroom to spend hours making wet prints using smelly chemicals.

Is there really a strong interest in film photography?

Agulliver

Cholentpot

Agulliver

Helge

Helge

Cholentpot

Alan Edward Klein

Helge

VinceInMT

Cholentpot

VinceInMT

Cholentpot

VinceInMT

Attachments

Cholentpot

Pieter12

faberryman

Pieter12

faberryman

Pieter12

VinceInMT

Alan Edward Klein

MattKing

Moderator

VinceInMT

Brendan Quirk

Agulliver

Is there really a strong interest in film photography?

Attachments

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency