Seriously.....I have many Paterson tanks and lids and I nearly messed up an important shoot a few days ago as the developer flew out of the tank via the lid - needed up doing like stand developing and shaking the tank up and down....and actually, the negs came out perfect!! I'm especially concerned of getting Blix drops around my bathroom too......no issues with 4 x5 film as I have the superb Stearman Press SP-645 tank that's FINALLY sorted out this problem! BUT 120 film.....wow.....it's always an anxious moment getting the inversions done......
Is there a tank for 120 film that doesn't f*****g leak???????? leaking lids nightmare
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I use the Jobo 1500 series tanks with hand inversion and haven't experienced leaks. Have you tried them?
I've always used Patterson tanks and never had a problem, maybe a few tiny drops dripping out after inverting the tank .
As you put the lid on , you burp it , so it's got negative pressure in the tank .
And it sounds like your shaking the tank in your post ?
Really ??
For inversion you just gently rotate the tank from the vertical or have it on a roller .
How the heck can you possibly get chemicals flying everywhere?
At the most I stand my tanks on a tray to catch any drips .
As you put the lid on , you burp it , so it's got negative pressure in the tank .
And it sounds like your shaking the tank in your post ?
Really ??
For inversion you just gently rotate the tank from the vertical or have it on a roller .
How the heck can you possibly get chemicals flying everywhere?
At the most I stand my tanks on a tray to catch any drips .
Maybe your Paterson tanks are overused or even abused?
I have used many tanks of steel and plastic including Paterson.
I may experience an occasional drip when inverting the tanks but I doubt that can be helped if the tank lid should also be easily opened.
I wouldn’t trust any tank to be 100% drip proof - a drip tray is your friend.
I have used many tanks of steel and plastic including Paterson.
I may experience an occasional drip when inverting the tanks but I doubt that can be helped if the tank lid should also be easily opened.
I wouldn’t trust any tank to be 100% drip proof - a drip tray is your friend.
Hey Neil, I do normal inversions with rotations for 120 film nothing drastic.....the other day when the developer flew out I shook the tank to avoid d losing more chemicals as was on critical level for volume...I lost about 100ml.....and as I noted, the negatives came out perfectly thankfully. I burp the tank and all things as normal but somehow get leaking lids. I dont know, is it the heat over here that has made/makes the plastic lids more supple/brittle....who knows. I've been developing film since 1985 so not new to this but the problem persists!
maybe I have to befriend the drip after all!!!! the drip tray is a good idea....had not thought of that
I don't quite understand. Paterson tanks do leak a few drops in my experience, but if you're doing manual inversions with one hand on the lid, I don't see how you'd get developer flying out of it. Maybe if the lid isn't seated properly and you're not holding on to it properly?
What I can see happening, is if you go from developer to something acidic (stop, bleach, blix) is that the formation carbon dioxide creates pressure and the lid pops. You can prevent this by pouring in the stop (etc), do a few inversions for maybe 10 seconds, then burp the lid, then do some more inversions for 10 seconds, burp again and then proceed as regular. Burping once or twice will get rid of the bulk of the carbon dioxide and overpressure. I don't see how you'd get overpressure doing development.
What I can see happening, is if you go from developer to something acidic (stop, bleach, blix) is that the formation carbon dioxide creates pressure and the lid pops. You can prevent this by pouring in the stop (etc), do a few inversions for maybe 10 seconds, then burp the lid, then do some more inversions for 10 seconds, burp again and then proceed as regular. Burping once or twice will get rid of the bulk of the carbon dioxide and overpressure. I don't see how you'd get overpressure doing development.
It did sound as if your confusing the developing tank for a cocktail shaker !
But yes , just the odd few drips while doing agitation only end up on the tray I work over and stand them on while pouring in the chemicals .
You'd have to very very careless to splash chemicals anywhere if your working sensibly.
I don't get how the developer can fly out if you put the lid on correctly, assuming it hasn't spit at some point .
When I'm rotating the the tanks I usually have a hand on the lid anyway which would prevent it coming off , not that it ever has , but just as a precaution.
I've always done it that way.
it was a multi-reel Paterson tank for 3 reels.....in this case I had 2 in there.....I noticed the lid expanding up and then bam the developer shot out.....all that being said....I was too careless...my fault.....middle of the day, hot, humid, tired...you know...it wont happen again thats for sure but was wondering if there were any better tanks out there! a screw on lid....come on...3D print it someone and sort out these problems!!!!!
Doesn't sound very ideal for e.g. color work or anything else that requires more or less exact timings.
Maybe a bayonet-style lid though, come to think of it. That might actually work. It'll be more leaky than the present design, but won't fall off. Then again, I've never had my regular Paterson or Jobo lids fall off, either. The only accidents I have with the lids is if I don't burp them as described above.
OK, well, in that case, I really think the current rubber lid design is probably the best compromise.
On my older System 4 Paterson tank it's especially the screw cap that leaks. The top cap you use to pour in/drain the chemistry is actually fairly snug. The clamp lid on the Jobo tanks is slightly better overall IMO. If the few drops are a concern, then try the Jobo tanks. And the drip tray is a good suggestion, too.
On my older System 4 Paterson tank it's especially the screw cap that leaks. The top cap you use to pour in/drain the chemistry is actually fairly snug. The clamp lid on the Jobo tanks is slightly better overall IMO. If the few drops are a concern, then try the Jobo tanks. And the drip tray is a good suggestion, too.
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I have new and old model Paterson tanks, Jobo tanks ( that I no longer use because reels are terrible), Nikor tanks…never a problem with leaks. The tanks should be inverted…after all it’s about developing film, not shaking a cocktail.
Andrew O'Neill
Moderator
This is why I don't invert with Paterson tanks. I do figure 8's. I teach high school photography. I can't have a classroom of teens spilling chemicals all over themselves 
My 5 cents: it's about how one uses equipment. When closing the Patterson lid, press down the center of it. This will:
- get the lid closed by like 70% - just let the air out (burp) and press down perimeter and voila;
- create negative pressure inside - atmospheric pressure itself will keep the lid closed;
- create some space for gasses to expand if for whatever reason gasses are released.
Do this and forget about leaking Patterson lid
- get the lid closed by like 70% - just let the air out (burp) and press down perimeter and voila;
- create negative pressure inside - atmospheric pressure itself will keep the lid closed;
- create some space for gasses to expand if for whatever reason gasses are released.
Do this and forget about leaking Patterson lid
My 5 cents: it's about how one uses equipment. When closing the Patterson lid, press down the center of it. This will:
- get the lid closed by like 70% - just let the air out (burp) and press down perimeter and voila;
- create negative pressure inside - atmospheric pressure itself will keep the lid closed;
- create some space for gasses to expand if for whatever reason gasses are released.
Do this and forget about leaking Patterson lid
I push down on the lid lightly just before inversions and agree the burping/pressure method is helpful. Still my tanks leak but not badly, and I've come to accept it.
The only mistake I've made developing my film was after coming back from a long pub lunch .
Turns out fix is crap at developing film !
The clear negatives showed that ....
Regards a screw on lid , I had a tank that used ascre on lid once.
It leaked really badly .
I could only develop in that using the twizel stick .
Is that not just natural selection ?This is why I don't invert with Paterson tanks. I do figure 8's. I teach high school photography. I can't have a classroom of teens spilling chemicals all over themselves
That's exactly how I've done it since getting the Patterson tanks in the late 80's or early 90's .My 5 cents: it's about how one uses equipment. When closing the Patterson lid, press down the center of it. This will:
- get the lid closed by like 70% - just let the air out (burp) and press down perimeter and voila;
- create negative pressure inside - atmospheric pressure itself will keep the lid closed;
- create some space for gasses to expand if for whatever reason gasses are released.
Do this and forget about leaking Patterson lid
Just a few times by drips seep out , not an issue .
a leaky lid would be the first dose of anxiety a newbie would have that 'they are doing it wrong' and would be put off.....surely, despite our techniques etc, someone can make a tank that doesn't leak no matter what???
Consider steel tanks with hard rubber lids. I hate Patterson tanks.
This is why I don't invert with Paterson tanks. I do figure 8's. I teach high school photography. I can't have a classroom of teens spilling chemicals all over themselves
I was waiting for someone else to admit to this so they take the heat insted of me. Thanks Andrew!
The Paterson lids, I find, are not always that easy to get fully seated and burped for some reason so I figure 8 or swizzle stick agitate with no ill effects... to me, my environment, or the film. And as @sperera said, the minor leakage was, indeed, a source of anxiety when I started processing film with that system. Even with figure-8 or swizzle stick agitation, I do that in a sink. If only it was a completely foolproof lid...
exactly.....we can add 'leak sweats' to 'film sweats' for new people to the art......I still, after all this time, get the sweats (esp in my climate) when the damn 120 film doesnt spool properly (paterson spools again).....I expect its because I use expired film thats been rolled up tight for decades.....
I use Kindermann stainless tanks with rubber lids and Nikor tanks with stainless lids... they all work as they should. My tanks have been used for decades. I got rid of Patterson plastic tanks and reels long ago. Whether you have 35mm or 120 film in them should have no effect on whether your Patterson tank leaks.....
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... and 'changing bag sweats'. This has, for some odd reason, become a constant problem of mine.
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